The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

He's absolutely a bigger star now. It's as if you aren't even paying attention.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

He's absolutely a bigger star now. It's as if you aren't even paying attention.

Based on...what?

He's been getting the biggest pop of the night for over a year now...and he still is? He was pushed as the #2 babyface prior to his match with Cena...he's still the #2 babyface now. When Cena went down, he rose to the top spot and it was a bomb at the boxoffice.

None of that yielded any kind of bump to buys, ratings, or house show buys. So, what are you using to quantify "BIGGER STAR"?

Sorry bruh, you completely missed the mark. He's absolutely status quo. The Authority Angle didn't get him over more. The Wyatt angle didn't.

I am sure when he's running main events in another year or so, you'll come back and say "it was here! I toldz you so!" But that'd be off base and it'd be like you aren't even paying attention.

You've got the worst case of expectancy bias on this topic.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Based on...what?

He's been getting the biggest pop of the night for over a year now...and he still is? He was pushed as the #2 babyface prior to his match with Cena...he's still the #2 babyface now. When Cena went down, he rose to the top spot and it was a bomb at the boxoffice.

None of that yielded any kind of bump to buys, ratings, or house show buys. So, what are you using to quantify "BIGGER STAR"?

Sorry bruh, you completely missed the mark. He's absolutely status quo. The Authority Angle didn't get him over more. The Wyatt angle didn't.

I am sure when he's running main events in another year or so, you'll come back and say "it was here! I toldz you so!" But that'd be off base and it'd be like you aren't even paying attention.

He's more over than ever and clearly positioned better than he was last fall.

And no, he was not pushed as the #2 babyface prior to SummerSlam. He was in a gimmick comedy tag team prior to SummerSlam.

The Authority & Wyatt angles absolutely got him over more. It's all part of the slow burn "this guy keeps getting screwed but god dammit he wont die" story, which he was born to play the lead.

This is exactly how I said I would book him from the start, minus the dumb beard & comedy aspects that started with the Kane team and are slowly going away. But what i've realized, are the fundamentals are the same. He's the ultimate undergdog. the guy who will FIGHT harder than you, and he's totally & completely relatable to the audience, which is why he connects so well with them.

They are telling a great, long term story. We'll see if they finish it off. I think the writing is on the wall at this point when the fans forced their hand and made them rush the Wyatt split.

Only thing I was wrong about was that they are using him incorrectly. I couldn't see it then, but I see it now. They are using him perfectly, and pulling the puppet strings.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

He's more over than ever and clearly positioned better than he was last fall.

And no, he was not pushed as the #2 babyface prior to SummerSlam. He was in a gimmick comedy tag team prior to SummerSlam.

The Authority & Wyatt angles absolutely got him over more. It's all part of the slow burn "this guy keeps getting screwed but god dammit he wont die" story, which he was born to play the lead.

This is exactly how I said I would book him from the start, minus the dumb beard & comedy aspects that started with the Kane team and are slowly going away. But what i've realized, are the fundamentals are the same. He's the ultimate undergdog. the guy who will FIGHT harder than you, and he's totally & completely relatable to the audience, which is why he connects so well with them.

They are telling a great, long term story. We'll see if they finish it off. I think the writing is on the wall at this point when the fans forced their hand and made them rush the Wyatt split.

Only thing I was wrong about was that they are using him incorrectly. I couldn't see it then, but I see it now. They are using him perfectly, and pulling the puppet strings.

Team Hell No essentially ended in June. From June to SummerSlam he went from "Weak Link" to #1 Contender because he was being pushed as the #2 baby. He was main eventing RAWs against Orton and was beating down Shield members and closing shows with YES YES YES.

He was the #2 face going into SummerSlam, he came out the #2 face...and guess what...he's still the #2 face, beating up Orton, beating down Shield members, and now Wyatt members and closing shows with YES YES YES.

Has that resulted in any kind of tangible evidence to being a BIGGER STAR?

Of course not.

You've just got a bad case of expectancy bias.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Team Hell No essentially ended in June. From June to SummerSlam he went from "Weak Link" to #1 Contender because he was being pushed as the #2 baby. He was main eventing RAWs against Orton and was beating down Shield members and closing shows with YES YES YES.

He was the #2 face going into SummerSlam, he came out the #2 face...and guess what...he's still the #2 face, beating up Orton, beating down Shield members, and now Wyatt members and closing shows with YES YES YES.

Has that resulted in any kind of tangible evidence to being a BIGGER STAR?

Of course not.

You've just got a bad case of expectancy bias.

Cena is the clear #1 and i've never stated otherwise. Just because he's still behind Cena does not mean he hasn't become a bigger deal in the interim.

Just look at the booking patterns, man. Even on the PPV's he doesn't headline (Survivor Series) he's still the top focus on TV. He opened & closed RAW last week and got one of the most memorable pops of all time. And all it took to produce that was a two week build of an angle that was universally panned, but which clearly accomplished it's goal.

He hijacked the crowd during the go home segment of the unification match.

He didn't draw the first time out but neither does just about anybody else historically. Sometimes these things take time, but crowds never lie (Stone Cold). That PPV run was the beginning, not *the* push and then an abandonment. This need people have for instant gratification, what ever happened to long term story telling? This whole deal only started at Summer Slam. We haven't even gotten to Rumble yet ffs. WWE just told a story with Cena & Rock that took two years.

Anyway, at least you aren't one of these BURIED to the MIDCARD and lost his SPOT to the BIG SHOW derps.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Cena is the clear #1 and i've never stated otherwise. Just because he's still behind Cena does not mean he hasn't become a bigger deal in the interim.

Just look at the booking patterns, man. Even on the PPV's he doesn't headline (Survivor Series) he's still the top focus on TV. He opened & closed RAW last week and got one of the most memorable pops of all time. And all it took to produce that was a two week build of an angle that was universally panned, but which clearly accomplished it's goal.

He hijacked the crowd during the go home segment of the unification match.

He didn't draw the first time out but neither does just about anybody else historically. Sometimes these things take time, but crowds never lie (Stone Cold). That PPV run was the beginning, not *the* push and then an abandonment. This need people have for instant gratification, what ever happened to long term story telling? This whole deal only started at Summer Slam. We haven't even gotten to Rumble yet ffs. WWE just told a story with Cena & Rock that took two years.

Anyway, at least you aren't one of these BURIED to the MIDCARD and lost his SPOT to the BIG SHOW derps.

Listen, I will never say he's been buried and he's now back in the mid-card. I was well ahead of the Bryan curve...he's been no less than the #3 baby for two years now, even when he was stuck in mid-card comedy tag team.

The booking patterns have been the same pre-SummerSlam as they have been after it. Main eventing RAWs, beating up heels and looking strong in the process and OVERCOMING ODDZ, and closing the show with him on top and the crowd going bananas. Same shit...the past six months.

And, this storyline began long before SummerSlam...Bryan's rise began back in May when they first started the Weak Link story...it was his ascension to the top, and he still ascending.

You stated, simply and directly that Bryan would be a bigger star due to the Authority storyline. Fin. Now, the goalpost moves that the payoff is X amount of time down the road. Fine, whatever. Just don't toot your horn. You weren't "on the money" with it, you just weren't.

I've never stated he wasn't teflon for the longest time. I've said it for years now. But, right now, he's just NOT a bigger star than he was coming out of SummerSlam.

 

[s@ppisgod]

IMO, Bryan is more on the cusp of superstardom than he was before SS, but it's no thanks to them trying to undercut him to give Trips, Orton, and eventually Show something to do off of his buzz. Not to mention the shitty non-finishes. He went from main eventing SS and being this magnetic star to almost growing stagnant. The Wyatt feud has really begun to get him a ton of momentum back and we can only hope it snowballs to a big push at WM.

 

[Leftwich]

Warner on the podcast you said its 60 up front for WWE Network... from what im hearing its not 60 up front. It's 10 dollars up front and if you do cancel they charge the remaining of the six month commitment.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Warner on the podcast you said its 60 up front for WWE Network... from what im hearing its not 60 up front. It's 10 dollars up front and if you do cancel they charge the remaining of the six month commitment.

Yeah. What we meant was, you are out $60 no matter what. From what I understand, they charge you $9.99 per month, but like you say, you are locked in for six months.

 

[FedEx227]

It's $60 upfront without being $60 upfront. You pay monthly but commit $60.

 

[JimLeavy59]

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Seriously, Bill DeMott might be the very worst trainer on planet earth.

How insulting must if be for the likes of Chris Hero and Daniel Bryan to have to go through training with that neverwas bum?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Joey Ryan is napalming the bridge the last few weeks, but I guess he figures he's in his 30's and was told directly he won't be signed, so fuck it.

DeMott should take a look at the main roster (and the NXT roster, for that matter) and take count of who the best workers are. Bryan, Cesaro, Zayn, Punk are locks for top five workers in the company, fifth spot open for debate, whether you like Goldust, Cena, Mysterio, Rollins, Orton, Christian, Sheamus, Del Rio, whoever floats your boat, but the best workers by and large came from the indies and in every single case were signed way too late.

There is no substitute for experience. If you come off the street, you will learn fundamentals and how to work safe and how to ignore the camera and how to work hard cam and all of that is valuable and important.

But there is no substitute for working in front of all sorts of different crowds and learning how to get over. There is no substitute for working with all sorts of different dudes at different experience levels and styles. You don't get that in the system. You can be very good being WWE developed, but even the ones that are are always lacking something. Watch Orton or Cody Rhodes, both are technically very good, solid as fuck, but they are like wrestling robots off the Vince McMahon assembly line. No flavor, no juice, like a kid who goes to film school and does everything technically right, but never cut his teeth making shitty films with shitty actors and learning the nuances of the craft.

It reminds me of when Jeff Hardy & Christian came to ROH. They had duds and didn't get over. They couldn't work for that crowd, all of that big arena shit wasn't going to help them in a room with 800 people who didn't want to see a RAW style match with kiddie psychology.

You can put Sami Zayn or Daniel Bryan or Antonio Cesaro in any room, any arena, any dome, and flea market, any VFW hall, and they will get over. And they were great before Bill f'n DeMott ever knew who the fuck they were.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Shit, just look at the Wyatt's and the member who has blown past the other two as the clear cut best worker of the three.

It's the guy who grinded his nose and worked everywhere for a decade before DeMott ever taught him to grab a hold and slow down because that's what the office wants, brother.

Even in the WCW Power Plant days, the guys off the street that came out of there were always what i've described in the previous post. No nuance. Wrestling assembly line robots.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Warner summed up WWE products in a nutshell.

The most glaring example of the WWE assembly line create-a-wrestler effect was that Orton-Sheamus match at the beginning of the year. If the crowd is anything less than WWE pristine, they can't work around it. That was the very far end of the spectrum, but how many times will Orton and Sheamus or Kofi Kingston and The Miz wrestle and the entire crowd just sits on their hands and neither guy can get anything from the crowd?

That shit doesn't happen to Punk or Bryan or even Cesaro who is mid-carding it. Even someone like William Regal will get a crowd going a little bit, and he barely wrestles these days. It doesn't matter if these guys work with Tyson Kidd or The Great Khali or John Cena...they are getting over.

WWE assembly line CAWs just can't.

Its taken Trent Barreta a YEAR to adjust to the Indies/Japan and start getting good Indie/Japanese matches out of him. He was kind of ass when he first got out from the WWE umbrella.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Dixie tweeted this

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Is the scuttlebutt that the Wolves are going to TNA in a DONE DEAL format?

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Posted it two pages back.....could be appearing on Impact tomorrow. The when is all that needs to be decided. Surprised they went to TNA and not back to the indie circuit.

 

[SuperKevin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XJF7huzUis#t=496

best match ever

 

[s@ppisgod]

Best example of Indy vs. WWE is when Punk came up and was wrestling Morrison in ECW. Morrison can go, has the look, and loads of athleticism. As an assortment of tools, he was probably ahead of Punk at the time. Punk was seen as THE MAN in the indies, but at the time, he wasn't viewed as the greatest worker. Definitely elite, but I remember a number of people didn't have him in their top 5 indy workers. But Punk was 10x more resourceful than Morrison ever was. Punk's learning curve on the big stage was unreal, where as Morrison got to a point of being pretty good and never improved from there, in the ring or otherwise. Even Bryan, who I thought was very lacking in charisma. And I wasn't alone. His learning curve was ridiculous too. Now he barely does anything and the crowd is eating out of his hands, in a way that even the ROH crowds didn't do (save for maybe his enterance.) Those guys that come up having seen it all are at a big advantage in the ring and on the mic. They've been exposed to so many styles, especially like Generico who has wrestled every town in the US most likely, that they never look awkward or out of place even in the land of the giants. How ironic....