The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

Hart had that hot TV run on Superstars when they were establishing him as champ with the "He'll face anyone!" gimmick against guys like Backlund, Virgil, etc. Different era, different match styles, but he was asked to have 6 minute matches while Cena is asked to go 20. I can promise you Cena shits the bed vs the Virgil's of the world, but when he's with another good worker, Cena is as good as anyone in a 20 minute TV match.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Hart had that hot TV run on Superstars when they were establishing him as champ with the "He'll face anyone!" gimmick against guys like Backlund, Virgil, etc. Different era, different match styles, but he was asked to have 6 minute matches while Cena is asked to go 20. I can promise you Cena shits the bed vs the Virgil's of the world, but when he's with another good worker, Cena is as good as anyone in a 20 minute TV match.

Cena has had much better matches out of the likes of Mark Henry, Great Khali, Umaga, and others mid-00's heel of the months than anyone deserves to...especially in retrospect.

Cena has really stepped up his game now that he is working with better workers. He gets in there and works right with them. Just melds his style with whoever he is working with. Everyone gets their shit in. And it works.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The Khali match is his Ric Flair/Junkyard Dog equivalent.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I am very curious as to why everyone in and around the business mentions "Randy Orton" every time they talk about guys in the ring.

They talk about him being some next-level in-ring guy, and I just have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. Anytime any of the wrestlers in or just out of the WWE or even some sort of management or someone close to the company about "top guys"...Randy Orton has been mentioned FOR YEARS.

I have no idea as to why.

 

[FedEx227]

Cena has had much better matches out of the likes of Mark Henry, Great Khali, Umaga, and others mid-00's heel of the months than anyone deserves to...especially in retrospect.

Cena has really stepped up his game now that he is working with better workers. He gets in there and works right with them. Just melds his style with whoever he is working with. Everyone gets their shit in. And it works.

I think the Umaga match from Royal Rumble I believe is when I finally saw the light on him and began to think of him as a good worker. And you're right, he had a somewhat solid match with Khali which is a god damn miracle.

 

[FedEx227]

I am very curious as to why everyone in and around the business mentions "Randy Orton" every time they talk about guys in the ring.

They talk about him being some next-level in-ring guy, and I just have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. Anytime any of the wrestlers in or just out of the WWE or even some sort of management or someone close to the company about "top guys"...Randy Orton has been mentioned FOR YEARS.

I have no idea as to why.

You're guess is as good as mine. Not an above-average worker, not a draw, not a really great talker, can't work a crowd and barely moves merchandise.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

You're guess is as good as mine. Not an above-average worker, not a draw, not a really great talker, can't work a crowd and barely moves merchandise.

Couldn't push his pseudo-MMA merch in an era where that shit was flying off the shelves.

 

[EmpireWF]

The WWE Network 1-week free trial will be available as of Monday morning at 9 eastern at WWE.com.

Still unclear about when exactly the network will be up and running. The live stuff is not going to begin until Monday night after RAW with a post-show...but I'm assuming the VOD (only PPVs for WWF/WCW/ECW to start) will be up Monday morning.

While I'm most excited about the potential with their vast TV library (tho I'm not getting my hopes up about seeing Livewire, Superstars, WCW Saturday Night and all that sorta stuff), I'm pretty stoked for the live NXT special on Thursday.

Just got MLB.tv and gave it a lookover on my Roku and the quality is great so I'm expecting nothing worst for the WWEN.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

RE: WWEN

I agree with Warner...if this thing doesn't succeed, it will be almost no fault of the WWE or the company running the streaming. It just tells me the world isn't ready to buy in on ala carte streaming services.

There is no reason this shouldn't open up the door for every other network/brand to run a similar service for ala carte service.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Could they have botched the debut of Emma any worse than they have?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Could they have botched the debut of Emma any worse than they have?

Nope.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Nelson Frazier aka Mable, Viscera, Big Daddy V, has passed away at 43:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152243902251323

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Nelson Frazier aka Mable, Viscera, Big Daddy V, has passed away at 43:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152243902251323

Damn shame, but when you're a big man like that...you're on borrowed time once you stop being active.

 

[s@ppisgod]

I am very curious as to why everyone in and around the business mentions "Randy Orton" every time they talk about guys in the ring.

They talk about him being some next-level in-ring guy, and I just have no idea what the fuck they are talking about. Anytime any of the wrestlers in or just out of the WWE or even some sort of management or someone close to the company about "top guys"...Randy Orton has been mentioned FOR YEARS.

I have no idea as to why.

I've seen that a lot of places lately, and I was going to come in here and ask the same thing last week when I saw somebody say something good about him (maybe Punk?). I don't get it. The guy is jacked and athletic, but he doesn't use a damn bit of it. He works a shitty slow style, and while he's not the worst worker, he's one of the most mediocre ever. He's the picture of average, and I don't get how fans, much less good wrestlers, think he's a good worker. Or an elite one. Craziness. I saw someone's list last week of the top 5 workers in the E, and they had Bryan, Cesaro, Rollins, Christian, and Orton. In what world is he mentioned in the same breath as those guys? That's what gets me, so many people who know what good work is think that Orton is capable of it. Completely mind-boggling.

 

[s@ppisgod]

Nelson Frazier aka Mable, Viscera, Big Daddy V, has passed away at 43:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152243902251323

I'm not even gonna lie, I was a fan of Mable and MOM as a kid. The guy was crazy out of shapeas Big Daddy V though with those titties. Ya just can't be like that forever, as Larry said.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

You have to remember something about wrestlers rating wrestlers. They rate guys on things fans can't see/don't care about. Who is easy to work with? Who works light but looks stiff & realistic? Who do they trust to keep them safe? Who can reign them in or help them understand when to let loose? These are things that mean very little or nothing aesthetically to a fan (nor should they, because as viewers, we just want the meal, we don't care about the recipe).

A good example of this is Kane. Wrestlers RAVE about Kane. CM Punk tells people he thinks he's not a good, but a GREAT worker. That's also the locker room consensus. People love working with Kane. From a fan perspective, he ranges from passable to shit. He's a standard big man. His resume of great matches isn't very long. He's just a guy. Nobody is confusing him with Kobashi. So when wrestlers rave about Orton (or anybody, for that matter) you have to take it with a grain of salt. Wrestlers aren't fans.

One non wrestler who always praises Orton is Meltzer. Keller likes his work a lot, too. But those are both guys who really like that vintage 00's WWE main event style. And if that style isn't right up the Orton alley, I don't know what is. Tellin' stories, bro. Grab a hold. Carbon copy match structure, rinse repeat.

I just think he's a guy who works to the level of his opponent. Put him with a bum, and he can't lead that bum. He often gets lost. Put him with a great worker, and he can be great. Because technically he's very good. Always in the right place, good timing, good base, etc. Is he going to carry Khali or Junkyard Dog or Kozlov or Darren Young or Kofi? Nope.

 

[s@ppisgod]

You have to remember something about wrestlers rating wrestlers. They rate guys on things fans can't see/don't care about. Who is easy to work with? Who works light but looks stiff & realistic? Who do they trust to keep them safe? Who can reign them in or help them understand when to let loose? These are things that mean very little or nothing aesthetically to a fan (nor should they, because as viewers, we just want the meal, we don't care about the recipe).

A good example of this is Kane. Wrestlers RAVE about Kane. CM Punk tells people he thinks he's not a good, but a GREAT worker. That's also the locker room consensus. People love working with Kane. From a fan perspective, he ranges from passable to shit. He's a standard big man. His resume of great matches isn't very long. He's just a guy. Nobody is confusing him with Kobashi. So when wrestlers rave about Orton (or anybody, for that matter) you have to take it with a grain of salt. Wrestlers aren't fans.

One non wrestler who always praises Orton is Meltzer. Keller likes his work a lot, too. But those are both guys who really like that vintage 00's WWE main event style. And if that style isn't right up the Orton alley, I don't know what is. Tellin' stories, bro. Grab a hold. Carbon copy match structure, rinse repeat.

I just think he's a guy who works to the level of his opponent. Put him with a bum, and he can't lead that bum. He often gets lost. Put him with a great worker, and he can be great. Because technically he's very good. Always in the right place, good timing, good base, etc. Is he going to carry Khali or Junkyard Dog or Kozlov or Darren Young or Kofi? Nope.

Thats what I was thinking on the wrestlers. Orton must be surprisingly easy to work with, because so many guys compliment him. Either that or they're kissing his ass to get somewhere or toe the company line. But with Punk and some other guys, they seemed very genuine. Which surprised me because he always came off as a mundane wrestler and a total asshole, so I wouldn't expect the parade of compliments by his peers...

Also, daaaamn you threw Kofi under the bus with that group.

Not incredibly surprised about Kane either. Kane has always been very highly thought-of by UT and UT wields more influence over the lockerroom than anyone since mid-90's Bret. So it's a great endorsement. But also Kane has been reported to be a nice, sharp, down to earth guy. Never one to get an ego. It would surprise me if people didn't like working with him, based on that, even if the in-ring product wasn't the best. And I've always thought his uppercuts, while crappy looking, got a pretty good sound.

 

[dave]

You have to remember something about wrestlers rating wrestlers. They rate guys on things fans can't see/don't care about. Who is easy to work with? Who works light but looks stiff & realistic? Who do they trust to keep them safe? Who can reign them in or help them understand when to let loose? These are things that mean very little or nothing aesthetically to a fan (nor should they, because as viewers, we just want the meal, we don't care about the recipe).

A good example of this is Kane. Wrestlers RAVE about Kane. CM Punk tells people he thinks he's not a good, but a GREAT worker. That's also the locker room consensus. People love working with Kane. From a fan perspective, he ranges from passable to shit. He's a standard big man. His resume of great matches isn't very long. He's just a guy. Nobody is confusing him with Kobashi. So when wrestlers rave about Orton (or anybody, for that matter) you have to take it with a grain of salt. Wrestlers aren't fans.

One non wrestler who always praises Orton is Meltzer. Keller likes his work a lot, too. But those are both guys who really like that vintage 00's WWE main event style. And if that style isn't right up the Orton alley, I don't know what is. Tellin' stories, bro. Grab a hold. Carbon copy match structure, rinse repeat.

I just think he's a guy who works to the level of his opponent. Put him with a bum, and he can't lead that bum. He often gets lost. Put him with a great worker, and he can be great. Because technically he's very good. Always in the right place, good timing, good base, etc. Is he going to carry Khali or Junkyard Dog or Kozlov or Darren Young or Kofi? Nope.

Orton has an undeniable look and decent promos, but he is just sooooo boring. He's a lighter HHH. I also despise HHH. I get HHH wants to be a modern day Harley Race, but Harley Race to me is just boring. Yes, Harley Race, HHH and Randy Orton are good workers, but they're as boring as hell to me. Not necessarily a John Cena fan, but at least he's not boring.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Thats what I was thinking on the wrestlers. Orton must be surprisingly easy to work with, because so many guys compliment him. Either that or they're kissing his ass to get somewhere or toe the company line. But with Punk and some other guys, they seemed very genuine. Which surprised me because he always came off as a mundane wrestler and a total asshole, so I wouldn't expect the parade of compliments by his peers...

Also, daaaamn you threw Kofi under the bus with that group.

Kofi was fresh in my head because he's a guy who has had bad matches with Orton, including that abomination a few weeks ago on RAW that felt like it went two hours.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

You have to remember something about wrestlers rating wrestlers. They rate guys on things fans can't see/don't care about. Who is easy to work with? Who works light but looks stiff & realistic? Who do they trust to keep them safe? Who can reign them in or help them understand when to let loose? These are things that mean very little or nothing aesthetically to a fan (nor should they, because as viewers, we just want the meal, we don't care about the recipe).

A good example of this is Kane. Wrestlers RAVE about Kane. CM Punk tells people he thinks he's not a good, but a GREAT worker. That's also the locker room consensus. People love working with Kane. From a fan perspective, he ranges from passable to shit. He's a standard big man. His resume of great matches isn't very long. He's just a guy. Nobody is confusing him with Kobashi. So when wrestlers rave about Orton (or anybody, for that matter) you have to take it with a grain of salt. Wrestlers aren't fans.

One non wrestler who always praises Orton is Meltzer. Keller likes his work a lot, too. But those are both guys who really like that vintage 00's WWE main event style. And if that style isn't right up the Orton alley, I don't know what is. Tellin' stories, bro. Grab a hold. Carbon copy match structure, rinse repeat.

I just think he's a guy who works to the level of his opponent. Put him with a bum, and he can't lead that bum. He often gets lost. Put him with a great worker, and he can be great. Because technically he's very good. Always in the right place, good timing, good base, etc. Is he going to carry Khali or Junkyard Dog or Kozlov or Darren Young or Kofi? Nope.

I know that is where it comes from...then I ask myself...did they watch what they put together in the ring with Orton? Even the tippy top in-ring guys struggle at times to get something aesthetically pleasing out him, and when they do, its got a ceiling on it. I'm trying to remember an Orton match I've ever rated over ****. Maybe Orton v. Mick Foley @ Backlash. Might be it. Otherwise, even the tippy top guys are going to max, get 4-star out of him, and often times, much less. His best work has come with guys that are great at enhancement...Foley, Bryan, Christian...he has also been hidden well in a LOT of Elimination Chamber, Hell in a Cell type gimmick matches.

Definition of a JAG from my seat.