The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm going to keep tweeting at Sam Shaw until I get a "What is your location?" reply from him. This is my new life goal.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

His Twitter is great.

Between asking for everyone's location, his really awful photoshops with Christy Hemme, and hocking k-cups...Samuel Shaw is a MUST FOLLOW.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Amasis worked the ROH Anniversary show preshow tonight. Said to be a good match vs Caprice Coleman.

 

[s@ppisgod]

It will be an adjustment period is all. I'm assuming that money will be made up someway whether downsides go up, or wrestlers get a flat cut of the TV rights deal or something. I doubt these guys will simply be making $100k less and have to just suck it up and like it.

I'm not so sure. The new set-up should make for a smaller piece of a smaller pie. They can't possibly hope to supplement both PPV buys (very up and down) AND DVD sales (usually VERY good) at $10 a pop. So they pass the squeeze onto the talent. The wrestlers are going to take a paycut, regardless. Whether it is a somewhat relatively smaller paycut or the E puts the screws to them remains to be seen. They could do like the UFC and really squeeze the talent because they know they're all but a monopoly. That's what I'd do anyway.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not so sure. The new set-up should make for a smaller piece of a smaller pie. They can't possibly hope to supplement both PPV buys (very up and down) AND DVD sales (usually VERY good) at $10 a pop. So they pass the squeeze onto the talent. The wrestlers are going to take a paycut, regardless. Whether it is a somewhat relatively smaller paycut or the E puts the screws to them remains to be seen. They could do like the UFC and really squeeze the talent because they know they're all but a monopoly. That's what I'd do anyway.

Another new revelation is that it's not even $9.99 a pop. 30% goes to the carriers (50% in the case of Apple TV) in the event people signup using their devices as opposed to singing up through WWE.com.

1,000,000 subscribers(what we thought was the old break even) was not going to be easy when you consider that 4M watch RAW. That's 4M people, not households. The real break even due to the split is now higher than 1M. They don't even do a million domestic buys for Mania. They need every person that buys Mania (should be a given, although there will be people who don't trust streaming or don't have access to it), plus several hundred thousand more. And that's just to break even, and not even make a dollar. So you can see why royalties are out the window.

I'm leaning strongly at this point towards the network being a financial loser.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Prince Devitt recently spoke with Ryan Devlin of The Wrestling Mania. Here are some highlights from the interview.

Being backstage at TNA in Dublin: “There are lots of rumors going around. Wrestling fans in general prefer the rumors to what actually happens in the ring. I prefer to talk about what happens in the ring but I did tweet about it and went there to see friends. At the moment I’m still a New Japan Pro wrestler.

Possible WWE offer: “Of course it’s on my radar; it’d be silly of me to say it’s not on my wish list of things to do in life. It’s very flattering because I grew up watching WWE, but to be even considered employable by a company like that is a big honor for me. I’m very happy with what I’m doing now, but if the situation came up and it was the right move, I’d like to try it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

http://culturecrossfire.com/wrestling/qa-with-prince-devitt/#.UwhxevldXVJ

Another cool Devitt interview.

He puts over Orton, which is sort of on topic here. But putting over Cena & Orton could certainly be political considering his situation.

He comes off very grounded and intelligent. Particularly when asked why he doesn't do US indies.

That New Japan L.A. dojo churned out some talent in a short amount of time. Devitt, Daniel Bryan, Samoa Joe, Rocky Romero, TJ Perkins, Sara Del Rey, Ricky Reyes, etc. Not to mention the fighters like Josh Barnett who learned to wrestle there. Barnett is a really good pro wrestler.

 

[s@ppisgod]

Another new revelation is that it's not even $9.99 a pop. 30% goes to the carriers (50% in the case of Apple TV) in the event people signup using their devices as opposed to singing up through WWE.com.

1,000,000 subscribers(what we thought was the old break even) was not going to be easy when you consider that 4M watch RAW. That's 4M people, not households. The real break even due to the split is now higher than 1M. They don't even do a million domestic buys for Mania. They need every person that buys Mania (should be a given, although there will be people who don't trust streaming or don't have access to it), plus several hundred thousand more. And that's just to break even, and not even make a dollar. So you can see why royalties are out the window.

I'm leaning strongly at this point towards the network being a financial loser.

And ad revenue becomes a bigger player in the game. Complete re-structure of the $ heirarchy, as you said earlier.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Haven't done this in a long time, but here's how I rank the current world champions:

1.Kazuchika Okada, New Japan (IWGP Heavyweight) - Duh. The most protected title (not debatable), and the best wrestler in the world right now (i'll accept arguments on this one, but hes top three at worst). IWGP Heavyweight title defenses feel like the most important title defenses in the world. He's inching closer to the record for most successful defenses during a single title run. Maybe the most interesting wrestler on the planet right now. Coolest finisher in wrestling.

2.Masato Yoshino, Dragon Gate (Open the Dream Gate) - Dragon Gate tends to give guys turns with the belt, and that's what this run looked like it would be. But Yoshino has done a great job and has been a very worthy champion. You really feel like you are watching the best guy in the company when you watch a Yoshino match. All of his title defenses have been at worst very good, at best serious MOTY contenders. He's vanquished his primary nemesis (Naruki Doi), gave a fresh young star a star making match (T-Hawk), and had himself what some are calling a 5-star match (Masaaki Mochizuki).

3.Johnny Gargano, Dragon Gate USA (Open the Freedom Gate) - I count this title, just because. Highest profile indie (ROH is a weird in between), major league roster. 800+ day title run. He beat YAMATO on November 13, 2011. First half of his run was white meat babyface, second half has been as a non self aware heel. Underrated matches.

4.Adam Cole, ROH (ROH World) - Slow burn heel turn took about a year, culminating in his title win. ROH is on a real upswing, outdrawing TNA on the road, and even doing equal ratings in the markets they run.

5.Yuji Nagata, NOAH (GHC Heavyweight) - New Japan outsider, recently won NOAH's version of the G1, then beat Takeshi Morishima for the title. Morishima was a transition champ, beating long reigning champ KENTA when NOAH was preparing for KENTA's possible defection to WWE. KENTA gets first crack at Nagata, so they may put the title right back on him. Nagata once beat the shit legit out of a sassy KENTA in a tag match, so the world will watch to see if they work stiff. KENTA would be smart not to try him again.

6.Akebono, All Japan (Triple Crown) - Used to be flat out terrible, but now over 40 and doing some good work. Needs a great defense to put this run on the map. No shortage of great working opponents with Jun Akiyama, SUWAMA, Go Shiozaki, etc on the roster. Looks like they are prepping Shiozaki for a title run, and why not? Akiyama, SUWAMA, and now Akebono have failed to spark things business wise.

7.Randy Orton, WWE (WWE World Heavyweight/FACE OF THE WWE) - Title being used as a prop for bad storylines. Nothing to see here. He frequently loses matches, or wins due to banana peels, so nobody cares about the title. FACE OF THE WWE buzz term undermines the belt, which was unified in a rush job on a B-PPV. Only TNA's incompetence keeps this from the bottom.

8.Magnus, TNA (TNA World Heavyweight) - Paper champion gimmick #2. Plus Magnus sucks. At least Orton is decent. TNA drops the ball by copying WWE again, when they could really make themselves different by presenting a serious champion and protected title, since WWE cares nothing about those things. But as usual, they are determined to be a cheap knockoff of a company they will never ever catch.

I haven't seen enough of the current champions in Mexico, DDT, Big Japan, etc to rank them fairly.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

And ad revenue becomes a bigger player in the game. Complete re-structure of the $ heirarchy, as you said earlier.

The new TV contract will drive everything. A monster deal puts a lot less pressure on the network, but a network failure will kill the stock, which has never been higher. Vince is a billionaire again, but won't be if the network does like 700,000 buys.

 

[EmpireWF]

WWE Network is now available to download on at least the Roku and PS4/PS3, I imagine it's available elsewhere, too.

Can't sign in yet, it tells you to sign-up on Monday.


On the Roku channel page, they have some sample pics...lol @ this search and the names it brings up:

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Another new revelation is that it's not even $9.99 a pop. 30% goes to the carriers (50% in the case of Apple TV) in the event people signup using their devices as opposed to singing up through WWE.com.

1,000,000 subscribers(what we thought was the old break even) was not going to be easy when you consider that 4M watch RAW. That's 4M people, not households. The real break even due to the split is now higher than 1M. They don't even do a million domestic buys for Mania. They need every person that buys Mania (should be a given, although there will be people who don't trust streaming or don't have access to it), plus several hundred thousand more. And that's just to break even, and not even make a dollar. So you can see why royalties are out the window.

I'm leaning strongly at this point towards the network being a financial loser.

It won't be $9.99 for long. That is their hook. Sooner or late, they will tier off their content and increase prices.

OR

Load it up with a shit ton of advertising, ala Hulu.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

WWE Network is now available to download on at least the Roku and PS4/PS3, I imagine it's available elsewhere, too.

Can't sign in yet, it tells you to sign-up on Monday.


On the Roku channel page, they have some sample pics...lol @ this search and the names it brings up:

That type of search function is what I was hoping it would have. The wormholes are endless, and i'd be diving right into that Papi Chulo one.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

ROH big announcement at HONORCON today was New Japan coming to ROH in May. Toronto & New York.

Tanahashi, Okada, Gedo, Jedo, KUSHIDA confirmed. Likely others as well.

 

[EmpireWF]

FUCK YES.

 

[EmpireWF]

John Pollock writes Nakamura is confirmed, too, with others likely but unconfirmed at the moment.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Not to be a wet blanket here (and i'm getting murdered on twitter for this) but i'm not sure what ROH has to gain with this. There is no evidence New Japan can draw shit in North America. 2011 tour was such a bomb it put Fat Frank out of business in New Jersey. Jersey All Pro has never been seen again. NWA/New Japan in Texas 2013 drew nothing special in Houston (a little above normal) and bombed in San Antonio (less than usual). International (non Japanese) iPPV is estimated in the 1,000 range, and that's worldwide, not just North America.

With that said, 2011 had the whole roster come over but New Japan wasn't hot yet. 2013 didn't have the top stars (Tenzan, Liger, Gedo, Watanabe). This ROH thing will be with the top stars AND while the company is hot. But ROH does well in Toronto & NYC anyway.

If they run the bigger room at the Manhattan Center (Hammerstein, not Grand Ballroom) and sell it out, that's success, because they don't always sell out Hammerstein, and sometimes don't even sell out Grand Ballroom. And I will assume that VOD/DVD will be up, but that's no lock.

New Japan wins either way because they get exposure to the type of fans that they can hook.

 

[EmpireWF]

ROH at the Hammerstein last Spring (WM Weekend, boom) sold out, so that's about 2500 tickets.

The last show in the same room was Final Battle and based on a quick google search, attendance was estimated at 1400.

Last summer at the Hammerstein, they apparently did less than 1400.

So, figure with NJPW involvement, bigger buzz for the shows, they sell hundreds of tickets they otherwise wouldn't have. Can they sell out again, or come close to?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

ROH at the Hammerstein last Spring (WM Weekend, boom) sold out, so that's about 2500 tickets.

The last show in the same room was Final Battle and based on a quick google search, attendance was estimated at 1400.

Last summer at the Hammerstein, they apparently did less than 1400.

So, figure with NJPW involvement, bigger buzz for the shows, they sell hundreds of tickets they otherwise wouldn't have. Can they sell out again, or come close to?

Yup, that's what I mean. They only sell out the bigger room for Mania weekend these days. So if they put the full 2,500 into the place, that's how you know New Japan made a real difference, and it will be the first evidence that New Japan has drawn anything significant in North America.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Interesting stuff.