The General Wrestling Thread

[EmpireWF]

In a perfect world, who on SD from the upper midcard and up can actually work (no big oafs) a classic match with Danielson? Dont watch SD so the only guy that comes to mind is someone like Cody rhodes.

 

[s@ppisgod]

What about Ziggles? People have been on his nuts quite a bit lately. Then again, I haven't paid a lot of attention to SD since around 04, so there goes my expertise...

And does Gabe really buy that? Maybe it was because it was the peak of ROH, but I remember hearing a ton about AmDrag and Punk and Samoa Joe and Nigel before I ever saw them in a match. Even to a much smaller extent about Sydal and Sabin and Lethal and Gabriel. I haven't heard a damn thing in a while in terms of hype of a supposed big time indy wrestler. It wouldn't be the first time an indy group failed to reload with as much talent (ECW).
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[EmpireWF]

Ziggler's on SD too? If he is, awesome. A Danielson/Ziggler feud for the belt would be sweet.

 

[IamMedellin]

oh Alicia Fox :fap:

 

[Spidey]

Kane's whole steel mask makes him look like the fucking rocketeer

 

[JayDizzle]

Screams Straight-to-DVD Slasher Villain to me.

If he started lighting people on fire again, I'd be behind Fake Kane (unless Issac Yankem D.D.S. got off the juice, that's a different dude).

Also of note, THIS.

Es Bueno.

 

[JayDizzle]

"Poor Hornswoggle... after kissing Vicki he's going to suffer from Low Elf-Esteem."

You earned a golf clap, Mr. Lawler.

Take a lap.

 

[JayDizzle]

Nice win for the New U.S. Champ, WH Champ, and WWE Champ.

It just cost us a Del Rio because after the decent tag match, the ref gave the "cross arms" signal.

I hope he's okay because that otherwise tarnished the Team Internet Champs night for me.

 

[EmpireWF]

Guess Del Rio fucked up his arm at the end. Hopefully, Danielson doesn't get any heat if it happened when he put on the Lebell Lock.

 

[JayDizzle]

I heard Del Rio was still beat up after TLC but tonight's match was paint-by-numbers as far as 6-man Tags go...

Aside from the sudden spike in "top turnbuckle fall to the floor" bumps.

I swear if that wasn't going to put out Del Rio, it'd be a flubbed move.

...I honestly think Del Rio finished the match and then told the ref he was hurt if Danielson didn't hurt him by accident.

 

[PEYMAN18]

:facepalm:

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Just because Bryan is World Champ, does not mean he will be treated any better in the booking. I think they will treat him like they did Punk's first run and the way they always treat Misterio's runs...losing non title matches to the "real" stars, and do everything they can to not get him over.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

And does Gabe really buy that? Maybe it was because it was the peak of ROH, but I remember hearing a ton about AmDrag and Punk and Samoa Joe and Nigel before I ever saw them in a match. Even to a much smaller extent about Sydal and Sabin and Lethal and Gabriel. I haven't heard a damn thing in a while in terms of hype of a supposed big time indy wrestler. It wouldn't be the first time an indy group failed to reload with as much talent (ECW).
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In terms of him having the next batch of stars? I'm sure in his mind he does.

The "golden era" of the ROH/indy scene was a perfect storm. You had all of that great talent (Punk, Danielson, Joe, Nigel, Aries, and all the rest you mentioned and some that you didn't), right at the boom of the indy movement when the WWE was briefly the only game in town. So ROH came at the right time, just as that crop of guys were starting to peak as performers and hit their stride.

Everyone from that group is now in their 30's, and have largely moved on and "made it" to national TV. The problem, is nobody replaced them. The indy well dried up, and in has a lot to do with the top amateur wrestlers and athletes from football doing MMA instead of pro wrestling. There is a good chance guys like Joe & Danielson would be doing MMA if they were ten years younger and came up now instead of 10 years ago.

Anyway, to answer your question, now that Castagnoli and Hero have signed up with the WWE, the last remaining indy darling is Davey Richards. He is still at that point where he is happy being the big fish in the small pond with artistic freedom, and has turned down WWE a few times (think Danielson circa 2005 or so when he kept turning down the WWE & TNA). Richards also has very lucrative New Japan tours, and i'm willing to wager he would be taking a pretty significant pay cut if he went to Florida for a year, and even when he eventually got called up, he's really short (maybe shorter than Bryan) and works a style that would NEVER be allowed in the WWE. He would have to completely change everything that has made him great. He's probably better off right now staying with ROH and New Japan, financially and creatively.

Aside from Richards, it's a pretty dry landscape.

Eddie Edwards is pretty fucking great, but has zero personality (think Roderick Strong).

Poor Roderick Strong will never, ever cut a good promo, and is getting older because he came up with the Aries/Danielson/Punk group. He had his TNA runs though, so in a sense he made it if that is your definition.

The Briscoes are wildly talented, and are leftovers from the previous group too, but they have style issues. They've had tryouts, but I can just see the antiquated WWE people rolling their eyes at the spots. Tag matches are paint by numbers 'heat spot/hot tag' deals in WWE, and Briscoes hardly fit that mold. They are a far more athletic and talented version of Public Enemy, who obviously fell on their faces in WCW & WWF.

After that, you have the group of guys Gabe was talking about, his Dragon Gate USA/EVOLVE crew.

-Sami Callihan: The latest underground darling. I don't like him, I think he looks like shit, and I hate his style. But im the minority as most people rave about him.

-Ricochet, AR Fox, Chuck Taylor, et al: These guys are young, raw, high flying flippy do guys. Massive potential, but again, not what WWE looks for. Ricochet was promoted to and is excelling for the main Dragon Gate office in Japan, and has improved his look. AR Fox does shit you've never seen. Chuck Taylor is a great promo guy but is painfully thin and has an indy look. Ricochet or Fox can make it someday and be undercard high flyers, but would have to cut out there most dynamic shit and dumb it down (like Evan Bourne).

-Uhaa Nation: Not a big name indy guy yet, but his fire is just starting to smolder. This guy will be in the WWE, without question, as long as he truly wants it and doesn't fuck it up. Think Ahmed Johnson, with real athletic ability. Green as fuck, but so much potential. He has a thread on this forum. Check him out.

-Johnny Gargano: The current DGUSA champ. Came from the midwest scene with guys like Shima Zion, Irish Airborne, Matt Cross, etc. Has improved dramatically, and is coming into his own. Again, size in an issue. He recently did a job on Superstars. He's like a younger, less talented, less charismatic Austin Aries. That sounds bad, and really isn't fair, because I like him, but that's the best description I can give.

-Rich Swann: Black guy who I forgot to include in that group of flyers. He does a rapping gimmick, but without the urban look or ring gear. Also a Dragon Gate main office full timer in Japan. In the pantheon of cocky black indy guys, I prefer ROH's Kenny King or big biss's guy from Texas ACH (although ACH is a bit less polished than the other two from what i've seen) in terms of potential, but Swann is pretty good.

So yeah, the well has dried up, but Gabe does have some decent guys who are at about the same place the previous group was at in about 2000 or 2001. They need more time. Most were having shitty matches in places like CZW a year ago and were the epitome of indy geek with bad gear and bad looks.

Sorry for the wall of text.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I should also add that Meltzer reported last week that the new company directive is to find indy guys for developmental instead of bodybuilders and soft porn whores, so the new indy chic WWE movement is having ripple effects 5 or 6 years too late. They will quickly find out that Punk's and Danielson's of the world aren't frequenting the VFW Halls in such abundance like they were in 2004.

What happened is somebody at the top finally realized that all of the best guys in Florida (Tyler Black, Claudio Castagnoli & Jon Moxley now, guys like Low Ki and Evan Bourne before) are always the seasoned indy guys who came in ready and at a higher level than the other stiffs from generic random wrestling school or the failed gay calendar model academy.

So now they've called up Black & Moxley, and the new directive is to hire TALENT, and to teach the details, as opposed to hiring looks and trying to teach wrestling (which leads to atrocities like Mason Ryan, Vladmir Kozlov, every diva, and the goof who won Tough Enough, who would all take years to learn what the hell they are doing, but Vince takes one look at them and gets a boner for their look and demands they get called up years before they are ready).

 

[EmpireWF]

Rumors going around that Chris Hero is not coming to WWE because his medical tests showed an elevated testosterone level.

Just because Bryan is World Champ, does not mean he will be treated any better in the booking. I think they will treat him like they did Punk's first run and the way they always treat Misterio's runs...losing non title matches to the "real" stars, and do everything they can to not get him over.

Was fully expecting him to job to ADR last night, but he actually won in impressive fashion. I shouldn't be, but I'm optimistic.

Nobody can be booked as bad as Mysterio's run in 2006, nobody.

 

[BigBiss]

So ACW womens (Joshi) wrestling for ya'll

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocA4EgbftUM&feature=share"]Angel Blue vs Jessica James W/ Portia Perez on Commentary (9-18-11) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[EmpireWF]

lmao @ Portia Perez....Texas is the only place that's worse than New Jersey.

:thumbsup:

and lmao @ the "Tae Kwon Do Slap"

 

[s@ppisgod]

I've heard of AR Fox, but I've never seen a match of his. I've liked what little of Davey I've seen. He reminds me of Benoit. The Briscoes have gotten rave reviews everywhere, but I don't think they're my cup of tea. I remember hearing some heavy hype of Chuck Taylor, so I looked him up. And yeah, he's pretty tiny. I've heard of Ricochet and Uhaa only in passing.

I do think MMA has taken a bite out of the wrestling prospect pool. Well, that and indys not doing so well. But MMA has become over-saturated, so I think the bubble has burst there to a certain extent locally. I think the main problem is the lack of ability to make a living outside of the WWE. Even with TNA, you have to have some notoriety and deal with incompetence (which lost Aries to begin with and only half-assed went after Punk). But a lot of the personality in the indies isn't there. Punk, Nigel, Shelley, Aries had loads of charisma. Joe and Fallen Angel were great characters. Now guys like Edwards and Richards, who are great in the ring, are pretty bland and vanilla. It seems like there's always above average workers and "flippy guys" as you call them, but rarely are there noteworthy stars in the making like Punk. That's what I think Gabe's groups now and in the future will sorely lack.
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[BigBiss]

No one works a Gimmick on the indys any more ... and if they do it is shit, this is way Robert evans has so much sucess with Arickibal Peak and why a guy as basic as Brody Lee is any thing

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Part of Gabe's problem is he needs to embrace youtube a bit more and give away some matches.

What would be the harm of putting up a Dragon Gate USA match from like 2009, from a show that has run it's course on iPPV and DVD sales? I'm not saying give away the whole show for nothing, but maybe put some semi main events or hot openers on dgusa.tv or youtube for free, and let people sample the product.

It's a shame that somebody like sappisgod, who is the type of fan who is disgruntled but clearly still interested enough to bitch about it, can not see a guy like Ricochet or even the awesome Japanese DG guys, and be given a chance to see if he likes it.

There are literally millions of people who threw in the towel on wrestling (compare ratings numbers at the peak of the Monday Night Wars, and throw in the ECW numbers too. Do PPV numbers also. ECW, the clear #3, did PPV numbers that literally crush TNA and challenge current WWE domestic figures in 2011) who promoters should be trying to attract, especially if they do something so different like DGUSA or EVOLVE that looks nothing like sports entertainment.