The General Wrestling Thread

[SuperKevin]

Daniels is looking pudgy tonight. Usually appears is better shape

 

[SuperKevin]

You know wrestling is fake when your 3 year old daughter sees a man get "hobbled" with a hammer and says "He's not hurt"

 

[FedEx227]

Little (not really) article I wrote about Phoenix's role in making CM Punk vs. The Rock a classic match at the Rumble.

What are your thoughts? Phoenix is a traditionally quiet crowd but can they really sit on their hands during Punk/Rock? How could they?

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2013/01/25/will-phoenix-make-punkrock-a-classic/

This was a topic discussed on our most recent 1,003 Holds podcast and one that has me nervous about Sunday’s Royal Rumble pay-per-view. Can and will the Phoenix crowd make the CM Punk/The Rock WWE Championship Match a classic?

We’re all anticipating a classic match and by all means it should be.

From an in-ring standpoint, CM Punk always rises to the occasion. While he’s a little far removed from a truly top-tier match he’s been solidly consistent. When the light shines bright, CM Punk rises to the occasion I’m not worried about him.

The Rock, I’d be lying if I’m not a little nervous. Of course, The Rock was a beast in his hey-day, delivery a ton of stellar matches, but that’s the old Rock, that’s not actor Rock, that wasn’t once-a-year wrestling Rock.

WrestleMania 28′s main event between The Rock and John Cena was great, it was awesome but The Rock blew up in the match quickly. You can’t deny that. Within 5-10 minutes, you could tell The Rock was on tired, nearly dead legs. There were long bouts of holding the ropes, gasping for air, I was worried we were about to see a huge letdown.

Alas, he was able to recover and due in large part to Cena controlling the remainder of the contest and the two still put together a very solid match.

I wouldn’t be doing the match or my role as a critical wrestling fan justice if I left it at that. Even after the match, I wondered if it would have been as highly regarded on a Capitol Punishment pay-per-view. Would Cena/Rock in a vaccum or a Extreme Rules pay-per-view, be nearly as well regarded. I think the obvious answer here is, no.
It simply would not have been that big of a deal or that great of a match if not surrounded by 78,000+ fans. The atmosphere, hype and anticipation of the match played as big of a part in making that match a top-tier affair as anything in-ring did.

In-ring wise, Punk/Rock might be good, but it might be average. As The Classical‘s Nick Bond discussed in his recent piece “Somebody’s Going to Emergency, Somebody’s Going to Jail“, this match is going to have difficulty even being the best Royal Rumble match of all time. It’s nothing personal against Punk or The Rock; it’s just one of WWE’s biggest events and has produced stellar, epic and legendary matches.

Bond mentions Cactus Jack vs. Triple H from Royal Rumble 2000, the infamous “I Quit” match from the 1999 Royal Rumble between The Rock and Mankind and even Kurt Angle vs. He Who Shall Not Be Named (…Chris Benoit) from 2003 as matches already on the top of the mountain. It’s hard to argue with any of those being top-tier title matches.

If you want to talk about classic Royal Rumble affairs, you can also add in the numerous stellar Royal Rumble matches (let’s all give a slow clap for Pat Patterson’s genius). I’m talking the well-booked 1990 affair, the legitimately five-star 1992 Royal Rumble, and great 2007 Rumble won by #30 entrant The Undertaker.

Can The Rock vs. CM Punk top any of those matches? On a purely in-ring standpoint? I doubt it, I really do. Both guys are good performers, but I’m just not confident they can put together an organic, in-ring four or five star match.

What’s going to make the match a classic is the crowd and the atmosphere surrounding it. There was much debate when Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer gave CM Punk vs. John Cena at Money in the Bank 2011 a five-star rating. Some would argue, in-ring, that was not a great match, there were many blown spots and it wasn’t particularly fluid. Nobody is arguing though, that the atmosphere surrounding the match made it spectacular.

The WrestleMania 28 rematch of Undertaker vs. Triple H was nothing-special in-ring, but the crowd was hot the entire way through. Again, a match that I wouldn’t say was an organic/in-ring five star contests turned into the stuff of legends thanks to a hot crowd.

Sunday in Phoenix, it’s up to those in the crowd to make this match a big deal and make this epic. Punk and Rock are going to lay the groundwork for you and it’s your turn to let your voices be heard and make this special.

Not to offend any fans we have in Phoenix or the Arizona-area, but I’m just not confident in it. They shouldn’t feel ashamed though, I’ve began to notice that silent WWE crowds have become the norm outside of New York, Chicago, Toronto and a few other select cities.

I can’t really explain why. It’s very much a chicken and egg riddle.

Does a hot WWE product make a good crowd? Crowds were rabid in the late 80s, early 90s and again in the late 90s-early 2000s and that does coincide with great points in WWE creative history. The issue though lies with these bit-shows with hot crowds where you watch and say “WOW, THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST SHOWS EVER! WWE IS GOOD AGAIN”

Money in the Bank 2011, not to bring it up again, but the show was regarded as the Best Major Show in the 2011 Wrestling Observer Awards. That’s high praise. Now it was a great event from top to bottom, but I’ve often wondered, does the event have the same impact if it was done in Oklahoma City?

More recently, “Tables, Ladders and Chairs” was a highly regarded event capped off by an extremely hot Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena match and a great Six-Man Tag featuring The Shield vs. Team Hell No and Ryback. Another top to bottom great show, hot crowd and well, it was done at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, NY. Largely the same audience as your typical Madison Square Garden/New York show.

Looking at Cagematch.net’s pay-per-view database WWE pay-per-view events since 2003 that received 8+ overall ratings were from the following cities: Chicago (Rosemont), Seattle, Las Vegas, New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Orlando, Chicago, San Antonio, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, Buffalo, New York, San Diego, Toronto, Las Vegas, Brooklyn, Kansas City, Denver, Providence, Chicago (Rosemont) and New York.

There are some outliers for sure but I can’t help but notice three Chicago shows and three New York proper (one Brooklyn) shows. The only other cities to show up multiple times were Las Vegas (twice).

It’s not an exact science at all, but it’s very telling that New York and Chicago somehow, someway, continue to have highly regarded pay-per-views even in a less than stellar time creatively for the WWE.
Back to Phoenix, let’s look at how well their events have been received. Again, thanks to Cagematch.net for their awesome database tool, we can look at all Phoenix-area pay-per-views since 2003. (Not fair to leave Glendale out of the running).

What we can tell off the bat, is they are not nearly as well received. SummerSlam 2003 tops the list at 7.74, followed by Glendale’s WrestleMania XXVI, highlighted by an all-time great bout between Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker, at 7.28. The last three, Money in the Bank 2012, Cyber Sunday 2008 and Judgment Day 2006 all found themselves under 7 (6.67, 6.35, 5.79). Again, not an exact science but somewhat telling that they had a less than stellar WrestleMania, a close but not quite great SummerSlam and a letdown Money in the Bank (a traditionally well-rated show).

Really, I don’t know. I’m nervous the fans will let us down and this match won’t have the same oh and ah feel it deserves, but we’ll see. I hate to badmouth an entire fan base but take this as a beg and a plea to clear your throats, don’t talk the entire day and let it all out during the pay-per-view, it’s up to you to make The Rock vs. CM Punk an epic, all-time great match.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

 

[SuperKevin]

I can't imagine PAC or Xavier Woods getting the Rumble spot. Their talents are typically wasted in those kinds of matches. It better not be Bo Dallas. He looks like a faggot

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't get Bo Dallas, and never will.

I think Leo Kruger will win.

I will disagree to an extent with PAC..er, Neville or Woods. I think if you bring a guy like that in, who nobody knows, and let them do a flashy highspot or two, it will impress people and make a mark. Especially PAC (er, Neville) who can do things that I am positive 99% of WWE fans have never seen.

 

[SuperKevin]

It sucks that most of these NXT guys seem like they'd make better heels than faces in a company that has no real faces at the moment.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Richie Steamboat

 

[JimLeavy59]

Ohno will win.

 

[BigBiss]

It sucks that most of these NXT guys seem like they'd make better heels than faces in a company that has no real faces at the moment.

Richie Steamboat

 

[JayDizzle]

The Royal Rumble hit ESPN's "notable events to watch this weekend " (paraphrasing).

I'd think it's because The Rock and Cena are on the card but who knows?

 

[EmpireWF]

Ohno will win.

He's not involved.

Let's go PAC!

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I don't get Bo Dallas, and never will.

I think Leo Kruger will win.

I will disagree to an extent with PAC..er, Neville or Woods. I think if you bring a guy like that in, who nobody knows, and let them do a flashy highspot or two, it will impress people and make a mark. Especially PAC (er, Neville) who can do things that I am positive 99% of WWE fans have never seen.

I don't like Bo Dallas...but he's your classic old school Florida or Georgia or Carolinas mid-card dry white meat babyface...kind of like Tommy Rich or something where the crowd "eats up" that energy.

He's not for me at all...but whatever.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Ended up watching Smackdown for the first time in years tonight. Only thoughts are that a two hour RAW would be perfect, and I wonder how much the Rock was paid for his three minute segment :dd:

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Months after Benoit died, Miz still not going into the locker room. Undertaker took him aside and asked what the deal was. He said "Benoit says I can't go in." Taker replies: "Son, Benoit's dead. You can come back."

I really hope this story is true. Fantastic.

 

[JimLeavy59]

Male Wrestlers

Alberto Del Rio: $675,000 downside/first class travel – 3 year contract
Big Show: $1,050,000 downside/allocated a personal touring bus/first class travel arrangements paid for, when bus travel is not an option – 10 year contract
Brodus Clay: $170,000 downside – 2 year contract
Christian: $595,000 downside/first class travel – 3 year contract
CM Punk: $1,220,500 downside/allocated a personal touring bus/first class travel arrangements paid for, when bus travel is not an option/receives an additional 3.25% bonus for high merchandise sales – 7 year contract
Cody Rhodes: $494,500 downside – 3 year contract
Daniel Bryan: $620,470 downside – 3 year contract
Darren Young: $80,145 downside – 3 year contract
Dolph Ziggler: $540,230 downside – 3 year contract
Jack Swagger: $319,000 downside – 3 year contract
Jinder Mahal: $75,000 downside – 3 year contract
John Cena: $2,750,000 downside/first class travel and accommodation/receives an additional 6.25% bonus for high merchandise sales – 10 year contract
Kane: $905,000 downside/first class travel and accommodation – 5 year contract
Kofi Kingston: $254,200 downside – 3 year contract
Mark Henry: $877,000 downside/first class travel – 10 year contract
Randy Orton: $1,600,500 downside/allocated a personal touring bus/first class travel arrangements paid for, when bus travel is not an option/receives an additional 2.2% bonus for high merchandise sales – 10 year contract
Rey Mysterio: $985,000 downside/first class travel arrangements/receives an additional 4% bonus for high merchandise sales – 5 year contract
Sheamus: $1,000,000 downside/first class travel arrangements – 7 year contract
Tensai: $520,000 downside – 3 year contract
The Great Khali: $974,000 downside – 5 year contract
The Miz: $712,000 downside/first class travel – 5 year contract
Zack Ryder: $135,050 downside/receives an additional 1.5% bonus for high merchandise sales – 3 year contract

Divas

Alicia Fox: $72,520 downside – 3 year contract
AJ Lee: $104,300 downside – 3 year contract
Beth Phoenix: $112,500 downside/first class travel – 3 year contract
Eve: $109,475 downside/first class travel – 5 year contract
Layla: $86,450 downside – 3 year contract
Natalya: $74,410 downside – 3 year contract

Announcers

Booker T: $477,375 downside/first class travel and accommodation – 3 year contract
Jerry Lawler: $500,000 downside/first class travel and accommodation/allowed to make independent appearances – 5 year contract
Matt Striker: $164,000 downside – 3 year contract
Michael Cole: $549,000 downside/first class travel and accommodation – 5 year contract

Not sure if its legit.

 

[BigBiss]

Not sure if its legit.

:ukiddingme:

 

[JimLeavy59]

:ukiddingme:

I thought Cena would make more.

 

[IamMedellin]

Cole Does Not make more than Lawler.....Does He?

 

[BigBiss]

almost none of these guys are making 6 figures, im sure punk just broke 6 with his last contract ... Big show 10 year contract? why who are the locking him up from?