UFC 129: St. Pierre vs. Shields (4/30 on PPV)

[Kuzzy Powers]

Ahh I hate having to thank multiple Empire posts..

 

[EmpireWF]

:heart:

 

[SHOGUN]

Eh. I still think GSP is #1, but I really don't like to think about it because the longer this debate lingers on (and it will), the more I'm inclined to lean towards And1 simply to preference of what I want to see out of someone called THE GUY. When there are a few short seconds left in a fight, I'd much rather like to see my #1 P4P try their damnest to finish the fighter, not try to grab a non-essential takedown for points.

Like Rob said, the sport is still about fighting.

 

[Steel Mamba]

GSP has become the new Fedor, the lengths people go to defend him is starting to defy logic. It's amazing how all of a sudden numerous fighters haven't bounced around in weight as the thought of a fighter doing so is blasphemy now.

Anderson has moved up to 205, BJ Penn accepted the challenge, Jake Shields moved up, tons of fighters have done it. But, for GSP it's the equivalent of Aldo vs Cain?? GTFOH

 

[Steel Mamba]

How much weight did GSP have over Shields? The two didn't even look like they were in the same weight class. What type of size advantage did he have over Penn? Why can't we see how he does when he doesn't have such a significant size advantage?

 

[EmpireWF]

Meltzer said GSP was about 193 on fight night and his speed took a hit because of it.

 

[Liquidrob]

GSP has become the new Fedor, the lengths people go to defend him is starting to defy logic. It's amazing how all of a sudden numerous fighters haven't bounced around in weight as the thought of a fighter doing so is blasphemy now.

Anderson has moved up to 205, BJ Penn accepted the challenge, Jake Shields moved up, tons of fighters have done it. But, for GSP it's the equivalent of Aldo vs Cain?? GTFOH

I think the main point is, for me at least

GSP doesnt have to move up, why should he? He never has expressed interest in it, its up to the UFC to give him challenges in his weight class

And1 has moved up, twice, him wanted to call out a smaller fighter and expect him to move up is silly, And1 has fought as low as 167, he might not be able to make it anymore, but he needs to do it if he wants it to happen, if he is loking for a challenge, Jon Jones is right there at 205

If I was GSP, I would accept anything unless it at 175 lbs maximum

 

[Liquidrob]

whats funny is I believe at the rumble in the rock tournament the weight class was 175, Okami, And1, Jake all fought there

Jake is better at 185 lbs IMO, his best wins are all above 170 lbs

 

[Steel Mamba]

Meltzer said GSP was about 193 on fight night and his speed took a hit because of it.

From what I was hearing this has become something regular for him. Regardless, if he's 193 from replenishing after a weight cut, then the argument that he can't make MW has gone down the drain.

I don't even think Silva is much heavier cutting to MW.. So, what's the problem when they're going to be around the same weight. No more excuses for GSP, none.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

GSP completely nullifies the strength of every person he fights. Do you think Jake Shields wanted to stand and box for 5 rounds? He had no choice. He had no prayer of getting the fight to the ground or imposing his strategy. GSP determines the pace and style of every fight he's in, and he does it with ease. The only thing 'disappointing' was that he didn't finish. Otherwise, he completeely dominated a guy who hasn't lost in forever and subs other top guys in his sleep.

GSP is fucking awesome. Even when he's mediocre he can't be touched.

 

[Steel Mamba]

I think the main point is, for me at least

GSP doesnt have to move up, why should he? He never has expressed interest in it, its up to the UFC to give him challenges in his weight class

And1 has moved up, twice, him wanted to call out a smaller fighter and expect him to move up is silly, And1 has fought as low as 167, he might not be able to make it anymore, but he needs to do it if he wants it to happen, if he is loking for a challenge, Jon Jones is right there at 205

If I was GSP, I would accept anything unless it at 175 lbs maximum

The argument has always been that Silva would be much larger, and GSP is too small to make that move. But, now that we know that GSP is 193 fighting at WW that argument has been shot down because it isn't true.

Fact is it would be much easier for GSP to move to MW than it would for Silva to move down to WW. Their weight proves that.

So, if you want to see P4P 1a vs 1b then GSP needs to move up, that's all there is to it. But, to defend GSP I guess no one wants to see the best in the sport square off.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Keep in mind Silva has said he's open to fighting at a catch weight, and he's open to fighting Jon Jones. He's the one who's game, meanwhile GSP won't budge. I guess if he can't inject IV's in himself to gain a 23 pound adv he's not interested.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Of course it would be easier for GSP to go up, Silva weighs 230 lbs!

No way I take that fight at 180 if I'm GSP. He'd be fighting a man 30 lbs heavier. At the same time its not fair to ask Silva to come down any lower than 185.

Silva is a much larger framed man, I've been saying this for years. Its a bad matchup and GSP knows it. He clearly doesn't want to do it, but willl probably be talked into it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Keep in mind Silva has said he's open to fighting at a catch weight, and he's open to fighting Jon Jones. He's the one who's game, meanwhile GSP won't budge. I guess if he can't inject IV's in himself to gain a 23 pound adv he's not interested.

Oh please, there is no non heavyweight who consistantly steps into the cage with more of a weight edge than Silva. Most guys GSP's size fight 155, and you want to rip him for not wanting to fight a 230 lb man? I don't get it.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Again, GSP had a 30 lb adv over some of the guys hes fought. Moot point.

Plus, Silva wouldn't have 30 lbs over GSP anyway, they'd be pretty comparable at MW.

You guys have to come up with something new now, there's no credence in the weight argument anymore.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Again, GSP had a 30 lb adv over some of the guys hes fought. Moot point.

Plus, Silva wouldn't have 30 lbs over GSP anyway, they'd be pretty comparable at MW.

You guys have to come up with something new now, there's no credence in the weight argument anymore.

Show me these fights where GSP outweighed anyone by 30lbs.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Again, GSP had a 30 lb adv over some of the guys hes fought. Moot point.

Plus, Silva wouldn't have 30 lbs over GSP anyway, they'd be pretty comparable at MW.

You guys have to come up with something new now, there's no credence in the weight argument anymore.

Where do you get this math from? Even if GSP was fighting @ 200lbs (which he has not), no 170lber is fighting literally at that weight, EVERY fighter puts on some form of weight after the actual weight in, its just the way it is.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Show me these fights where GSP outweighed anyone by 30lbs.

You show me where Silva had a 30 pound adv. What you walk around at isn't equivalent to how you rebound from a cut.

ANyway BJ Penn would be one example. He fights right at the limit on fight night, whereas GSP is almost 200lbs.

 

[Steel Mamba]

The guys who consistently have a size adv would be Forrest Griffin and Anthony Johnson. Those two cut more and rebound from cuts better than Silva does.

 

[calgaryballer]

You show me where Silva had a 30 pound adv. What you walk around at isn't equivalent to how you rebound from a cut.

ANyway BJ Penn would be one example. He fights right at the limit on fight night, whereas GSP is almost 200lbs.

Come on! BJ wanted that fight, it's not like GSP was asking for it. Shields was the former SF MIDDLEWEIGHT champion. He struggled to make weight against Kampmann because he is so BIG!

Lets have another example for GSP. And don't go back to someone like Menjivar in TKO