UNC Scandal - 54 Fake Classes, 4 in 10 Football Players Enrolled in Major

[Senser81]

I'm re-reading the articles, and aside from them both being horribly written, I'm trying to find the hard evidence that UNC was cheating.

*Numerous football/bball players majoring in AA studies...if its illegal, then why does UNC offer it as a major?
*Academic Advisors steering players to AA courses...isn't that their job, to advise students on what classes to take?
*67% of AA courses filled by players...what about the other 33%? Were those students kicked out of school?

There is one mention/implication in one of the articles that the players' classes didn't even exist...they were just given grades. Well, if thats true, then THAT should be the lead story. And if thats true, then what about the other 33% of the regular student population in those classes?

I guess I don't get the outrage over players enrolling in courses offered by the University, selecting a major offered by the University, and academic advisors doing their jobs. Maybe more will come out on this story, and we'll see that Roy Williams is a POS and Sean May received even more preferential treatment from his professors than he did from the refs in the 2005 championship. But until then, I don't know what the NCAA can do. Julius Peppers' transcript had a lot of African American Studies classes on it...got it.

 

[Senser81]

I'll comment on the Penn State sidebar, because watching FT and W2B argue is like watching your parents fight.

Penn State can be compared to the UNC situation, because in the end PSU was covering up something so their football program wouldn't get in trouble. I doubt Paterno or the PSU administration would have covered up the situation if it involved, say, a librarian or a history professor. Because it involved a coach in the football program, Paterno and PSU tried to hide the situation so that the football program could continue to win. The motivation is the same as UNC's...don't get in trouble, win games. The only thing remotely egregious as the PSU situation was Dave Bliss (Bob Knight's former right hand man at Indiana...LOL) and the Baylor basketball program a few years ago.

Speaking of Bliss, I found this to be funny...so the guy is persona non grata in the coaching ranks, but he gets this high school job in Texas coaching basketball at Allen Academy in May 2010. Only a few months later in November 2010, he was suspended for two years because of illegally recruiting players from other schools, and giving players money for school tuition. Great guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Bliss

 

[FirstTimer]

ok, then who did?:smh:

Warner.

Read the damn thread.

 

[FirstTimer]

I obviously agree with W2B, but I wouldn't use the word "more offensive" when looking at the NC and PSU situations purely from a sports standpoint.

However, NC's discretions do violate particular NCAA by laws, where as Penn State's sanctions were handed down because the NCAA saw it as a violation to an NCAA code of ethical coduct which is vague and questionable in relation to what happened at PSU.

:michaelscott:

 

[Senser81]

:michaelscott:

 

[shag773]

:michaelscott:

Take it easy there Hoss. Not arguing PSUs punishment. Just pointing out if they hammered PSU because of a lack of institutional control, which many legal experts deemed hazy and broad, then NC should face a similar punishment for breaking actual NCAA by laws.

 

[FirstTimer]

Take it easy there Hoss. Not arguing PSUs punishment. Just pointing out if they hammered PSU because of a lack of institutional control, which many legal experts deemed hazy and broad, then NC should face a similar punishment for breaking actual NCAA by laws.

I'm not sure terming PSU's (lack of) ethical conduct as "vague and questionable" holds any water.

What "legal experts" termed it as such? Former PSU grads who are now lawyers?

 

[Senser81]

You think i'm placing a greater importance of academic/sports issues as opposed to the criminal issues. In fact, i'm doing the opposite.

My focus all long during the PSU scandal was criminal related, where I believe it belonged. There was very little in the way of sports/academic related infractions at Penn St when compared to UNC.

I kind of agree with you. Its hard to explain, but I thought the NCAA's ruling against PSU was the worst possible outcome. I would rather the NCAA not gotten involved if they weren't really going to punish PSU's football program with the death penalty. It would make sense for the NCAA to do nothing, wash their hands of the situation, and claim "the Feds are handling this...its not a football-related situation". For the NCAA to get involved and issue a punishment, anything short of the death penalty is insulting. Its like they are acknowledging PSU's transgressions, but then they are weighing it in terms of 'scholarships' and 'bowl appearances'. Either kill the program completely, or don't get involved.

 

[Senser81]

What "legal experts" termed it as such? Former PSU grads who are now lawyers?

 

[shag773]

I'm not sure terming PSU's (lack of) ethical conduct as "vague and questionable" holds any water.

What "legal experts" termed it as such? Former PSU grads who are now lawyers?

Huh?

I'm talking about position the NCAA took when they gave Emmert the power to hand down these sanctions to use the broad ideals spelled out in the NCAA rulebook which Emmerts stated in the press conference calls for "intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education." If you don't find that a littlel vague, than fine, I'll agree to disagree with you.

I do find it funny that you continue to try and change the argument. I'll leave you to your youtube videos, gifs and snarky comments. It takes me 10 minutes to load this page on my phone with the 15 gifs of MJ laughing you have littered throughout this page..

 

[FirstTimer]

Huh?

I'm talking about position the NCAA took when they gave Emmert the power to hand down these sanctions to use the broad ideals spelled out in the NCAA rulebook which Emmerts stated in the press conference calls for "intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education." If you don't find that a littlel vague, than fine, I'll agree to disagree with you.

How is this at all "vague" in relation to what PSU was doing/what they got punished for?

Srs?


Now I've started to see it all. Systematic covering up for a child molester by the top 3 people at the university including the AD and President of the University falls into the "vague" category to PSU fans when discussing the enhancement of the integrity of higher education.

mg:

I do find it funny that you continue to try and change the argument.

I haven't changed any argument.

I've been responding to arguments other people are bringing forward the entire time(in relation to PSU coming up). I didn't initiate the PSU comparisons in here.

 

[Villain]

ESPN could care less, apparently. Zero mentions.

 

[Senser81]

It takes me 10 minutes to load this page on my phone with the 15 gifs of MJ laughing you have littered throughout this page..

:lol:

 

[NAHSTE]

I'm re-reading the articles, and aside from them both being horribly written, I'm trying to find the hard evidence that UNC was cheating.

*Numerous football/bball players majoring in AA studies...if its illegal, then why does UNC offer it as a major?
*Academic Advisors steering players to AA courses...isn't that their job, to advise students on what classes to take?
*67% of AA courses filled by players...what about the other 33%? Were those students kicked out of school?

There is one mention/implication in one of the articles that the players' classes didn't even exist...they were just given grades. Well, if thats true, then THAT should be the lead story. And if thats true, then what about the other 33% of the regular student population in those classes?

I guess I don't get the outrage over players enrolling in courses offered by the University, selecting a major offered by the University, and academic advisors doing their jobs. Maybe more will come out on this story, and we'll see that Roy Williams is a POS and Sean May received even more preferential treatment from his professors than he did from the refs in the 2005 championship. But until then, I don't know what the NCAA can do. Julius Peppers' transcript had a lot of African American Studies classes on it...got it.

I agree the columns were horribly written, especially the first one.

"ZOMG THEY WERE CHEATING, HERE'S HOW. OH AND NOT TO MENTION, HOW EMBARRASSING IS IT THAT AN NC STATE FAN FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS FIRST?!?! DURR. RIVALRIES AND STUFF. GUT PUNCH TO THE TARHEELS FANBASE."

As for the Afro-American Studies major, I am guessing based on the Sean May quote that that curricula offers a lot of independent study courses. Maybe there's more evidence that these were all sham classes and the other 33% of those enrolled in the major, the non-athletes, did not have access to these. Maybe that evidence is somewhere, but the reader has to make that connection on their own I guess. All I saw in the first column was your usual rabble-rousing.

 

[Argath]

I'm pretty sure the article on ESPN said there was an upwards of 57 classes just for student athletes in the AFAM major and in these classes all the kids had to do was turn in a paper with their name on it and they got an A. Academic Advisors were actively pushing student athletes to these classes whether they wanted to take them or not.

 

[NAHSTE]

I'm pretty sure the article on ESPN said there was an upwards of 57 classes just for student athletes in the AFAM major and in these classes all the kids had to do was turn in a paper with their name on it and they got an A. Academic Advisors were actively pushing student athletes to these classes whether they wanted to take them or not.

Ok. That might have been a good lead paragraph for ol' boy from the original post, not "THIS IS EMBARRASSING AND WRONG AND THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN. OH YEAH, AND AN NC STATE FAN DISCOVERED ALL THIS, CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?"

 

[FedEx227]

I'm pretty sure the article on ESPN said there was an upwards of 57 classes just for student athletes in the AFAM major and in these classes all the kids had to do was turn in a paper with their name on it and they got an A. Academic Advisors were actively pushing student athletes to these classes whether they wanted to take them or not.

Soooo... basically athlete classes that exist at pretty much every high level university with top-tier athletics?

 

[Argath]

Soooo... basically athlete classes that exist at pretty much every high level university with top-tier athletics?

I don't think it was this blatant at every other university and I know Maryland doesnt do this. Just look at their graduation rates :smug:

 

[Mogriffjr]

Interesting to me how long this story took to officially come out. I knew about this thanks to this duke board I visit. It was tough to gauge if it was just some duke rhetoric or for real. But it finally got out and UNC is about to get f'ed in the A.

 

[BigBucs]