Vick THINKS he is entitled to $10,000,000.00 per year

[Senser81]

Oh, Roddy White was supposed to be a badass his first two years in Atlanta? When he wasn't even the number one WR at the time, his main targets were Crumpler and Price. It takes time for many WR's, especially someone coming from UAB, to adjust. You're acting like he became a superstar when Matt Ryan came. When really he had close to the same year before when Redmon, Harrington and Leftwich all started games.

White did become a superstar when Matt Ryan came. 2008 was the first year White was in the top 10 in receptions, top 5 in yards, and made the pro bowl. He's gotten progressively better as the Falcons' passers have gotten better. He had nice numbers in 2007, but he was obviously even better in 2008. Its almost indisputable, but leave it to Vick fanboys to argue against the obvious.

Vick did a poor job of getting the balls to his WRs. Thats why Crumpler and the RBs would have a lot of receptions under Vick. I think last year Turner had 6 receptions, Justin Peele had like 15, and White and Jenkins easily were 1-2 in receptions for the team. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with the QB...it has more to do with White and Jenkins 'blossoming' at the exact same time.

 

[Senser81]

fixed...

LOL! I thought it was impossible for Falcon RBs to gain yards without Vick due to the Falcons O-line being the worst in the NFL! This same O-line was blamed for allowing Vick to get sacked virtually 1 in every 7 pass attempts. Yet, with Vick out of the picture, Turner is able to gain yards and Ryan only got sacked 17 times despite being a rookie QB. So basically, the reason for every aspect of the Falcons offense improving isn't the switch from Vick to Ryan, its a perfect confluence of every aspect of the team improving on its own, and this perfect confluence is what carried Matt Ryan. Put Vick on the 2008 Falcons and Turner rushes for 2100 yards, Roddy White has a 1500-yard season, and Vick himself throws for 4000 yards and 30+ TDs.

Again, Vick fanboys are 'der wurst'...

 

[ThunderHorse]

White did become a superstar when Matt Ryan came. 2008 was the first year White was in the top 10 in receptions, top 5 in yards, and made the pro bowl. He's gotten progressively better as the Falcons' passers have gotten better. He had nice numbers in 2007, but he was obviously even better in 2008. Its almost indisputable, but leave it to Vick fanboys to argue against the obvious.

Vick did a poor job of getting the balls to his WRs. Thats why Crumpler and the RBs would have a lot of receptions under Vick. I think last year Turner had 6 receptions, Justin Peele had like 15, and White and Jenkins easily were 1-2 in receptions for the team. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with the QB...it has more to do with White and Jenkins 'blossoming' at the exact same time.

I don't think anyone doubts that Matt Ryan is a better pure quarterback then Michael Vick.

But looking at passing numbers isn't exactly fair to Vick, as we all know that passing the ball wasn't his strong suite, nor was it expected to be, as he was expected to just make plays, which is exactly what he did.

I for one never sat around under the delusion that Michael Vick should be a better pocket passer.

But your point is proven when you bring out the Receiving facts, the flip side to that point however is, Reggie Wayne.

Reggie Wayne played in Indianapolis for a couple of years before he really started to put up numbers and have people notice him, maybe the same applies for White, I honestly can't say, as I've never been a Falcon fan or followed them in depth other then watching Vick make a play on sports center.

Anyway, its not like you can say Reggie Wayne DIDN'T have a quarterback, hes had the best in the league his entire career, sometimes it just takes time for receivers to emerge.

Anyway, the Falcon's success this year was because of one man, and that's Michael Turner, without Turner, the Falcons pull a game like they do against Arizona, where to much was put on Matt Ryan's shoulders, and he choked.

In time I think Ryan will be an elite quarterback however, who the hell expected a rookie to do as well as he did anyway?

 

[ThunderHorse]

LOL! I thought it was impossible for Falcon RBs to gain yards without Vick due to the Falcons O-line being the worst in the NFL! This same O-line was blamed for allowing Vick to get sacked virtually 1 in every 7 pass attempts. Yet, with Vick out of the picture, Turner is able to gain yards and Ryan only got sacked 17 times despite being a rookie QB. So basically, the reason for every aspect of the Falcons offense improving isn't the switch from Vick to Ryan, its a perfect confluence of every aspect of the team improving on its own, and this perfect confluence is what carried Matt Ryan. Put Vick on the 2008 Falcons and Turner rushes for 2100 yards, Roddy White has a 1500-yard season, and Vick himself throws for 4000 yards and 30+ TDs.

Again, Vick fanboys are 'der wurst'...

I think you seriously misunderstood what I was saying.

that statement had nothing to do with Vick... it was just to point out that a lot of the success that Matt Ryan and the receiving game that the Falcon's had this year, if not most to all of it, is on the back of Michael turner.

I completely agree with you on Vick's inability to effectively take control of the passing game and spread the ball correctly and efficiently, I just disagree in the fact that I don't think that made him a bad player, as anyone who knew football knew that he wasn't on the field to do that.

 

[Senser81]

I don't think anyone doubts that Matt Ryan is a better pure quarterback then Michael Vick.

But looking at passing numbers isn't exactly fair to Vick, as we all know that passing the ball wasn't his strong suite, nor was it expected to be, as he was expected to just make plays, which is exactly what he did.

I for one never sat around under the delusion that Michael Vick should be a better pocket passer.

Thats not my point at all. My point isn't 'Ryan is a better pure QB than Vick'...I did not put in a disclaimer. My point is that Ryan is a better QB than Vick. He gets the ball in the hands of his playmakers (White & Jenkins), and opens up the defense with his passing threat, which helps out Michael Turner and Jerious Norwood. Atlanta's offense seemed to do well last year without getting 500-900 rushing yards for the QB position, no?

But your point is proven when you bring out the Receiving facts, the flip side to that point however is, Reggie Wayne.

Reggie Wayne played in Indianapolis for a couple of years before he really started to put up numbers and have people notice him, maybe the same applies for White, I honestly can't say, as I've never been a Falcon fan or followed them in depth other then watching Vick make a play on sports center.

Anyway, its not like you can say Reggie Wayne DIDN'T have a quarterback, hes had the best in the league his entire career, sometimes it just takes time for receivers to emerge.

HUH? This makes absolutely no sense. Wayne's situation is completely different. He hasn't been switching QBs. And you conveniently forgot to add in the fact that Michael Jenkins has also 'blossomed' the same time Matt Ryan was inserted as QB.

Point being Michael Vick hurt White and Jenkins, while Ryan has helped. I don't really see how Reggie Wayne's career arc disproves this point.

Anyway, the Falcon's success this year was because of one man, and that's Michael Turner, without Turner, the Falcons pull a game like they do against Arizona, where to much was put on Matt Ryan's shoulders, and he choked.

HA HA HA! So much hatred for Matt Ryan! Try using the same criteria for your recollection of Mike Vick. I don't remember criticizing Michael Turner...but way to throw that out there.

Again, 'der wurst'.

 

[Senser81]

Or perhaps it's the change in coaching and going out and getting Michael Turner.

Riight...because everyone predicted the Falcons would go 11-5 when they signed the immortal Mike Smith to coach the team and acquired career-backup Michael Turner. Once again, the revisionist history of Vick fanboys is taken to the extreme.

This wasn't a bad team at all when Vick was at the helm.

Uh, yeah, thats kinda my point. The team wasn't as bad as Vick fanboys made them out to be. It wasn't like Vick was an army-of-one. Maybe you should re-think that statement.

And I think its so unfortunate that we don't get to see what he could have done with his NFL career.

I thought we already did see what Vick could have done with his NFL career. He hadn't improved one iota since his second year in the NFL. He was a run-first, pass-second QB. My guess is that Vick wouldn't have lasted much longer in the NFL because he either would have gotten injured again or he would have lost some of his speed, which was really his only attribute. Once Vick became less effective as a runner, he'd be useless.

But maybe you thought THIS would be the year Vick finally developed as a QB?

 

[ThunderHorse]

Jesus,

anyone who hasn't recognized that Turner is the wheels that put the Faclons in motion is simply a fan boy or delusional.

don't get it twisted... I'm no Vick cock sucker, I could care less how his career ended up or what he did, just to sit here and act like Vick wasn't a great player is borderline retarded.

and on the flip side, I swear I remember saying I thought Ryan would be an elite quarterback in the NFL soon... doesn't sound like hatred to me.

I mean, lets not forget, Michael Turner rushed for 1,700 yards this season...

in the playoff game against Arizona, Turner managed to get 42 yards, and averaged 2.3 yards a carry... what happened after that? oh yea, Atlanta Lost... and the rookie phenom who everyone said was carrying the falcons all year did what? oh yea, he fumbled, gave up a safety, and threw two interceptions.

don't get it twisted, Turner is an elite runningback in the NFL and its always been noted, that one part of your game opens up the other, if you pass effectively, you run effectively, but when you run effectively, so much more opens up in the pass game because of the play action that its painful for Defensive Coordinators to think about.

Trust me, D-Coordinators lost a lot more sleep over Michael Turner then Matt Ryan. and in the future when Ryan gets even better, the Falcons are going to be a scary team if they can keep up dominant runningback play.

 

[Houston]

opcorn:

 

[Senser81]

I think you seriously misunderstood what I was saying.

that statement had nothing to do with Vick... it was just to point out that a lot of the success that Matt Ryan and the receiving game that the Falcon's had this year, if not most to all of it, is on the back of Michael turner.

I completely agree with you on Vick's inability to effectively take control of the passing game and spread the ball correctly and efficiently, I just disagree in the fact that I don't think that made him a bad player, as anyone who knew football knew that he wasn't on the field to do that.

Again, your hatred of Matt Ryan is astounding. You'd actually agree with someone who said 'all of the success the Falcons had throwing the football was due to Michael Turner'? Do you think White and Jenkins would have had similar seasons if Turner was on the team but Vick was the QB instead of Ryan?

I would say that Turner's run threat helped out the passing game, but Ryan's passing threat also helped out Turner. The balanced offense is the hardest to defend.

I completely agree with you on Vick's inability to effectively take control of the passing game and spread the ball correctly and efficiently, I just disagree in the fact that I don't think that made him a bad player, as anyone who knew football knew that he wasn't on the field to do that.

Yeah, who would think that a player playing the QB position would be bothered with something mundane as 'passing responsibilities'?

 

[ThunderHorse]

lets not also forget,

Ryan threw 16 TD's and 11 interceptions last year... 87.something passer rating

Great rookie year, but its not like HE ALONE carried the falcons last year

1,700 rushing yards > 16 touchdown passes with 11 interceptions

 

[Senser81]

When did anyone argue that Ryan wasn't a better QB than Vick!?!? No one did. Theirs no need to state the VERY obvious. The whole Vick support on here is how he isn't a bad player at all.

Please stop...

I don't think anyone doubts that Matt Ryan is a better pure quarterback then Michael Vick.

But looking at passing numbers isn't exactly fair to Vick, as we all know that passing the ball wasn't his strong suite, nor was it expected to be, as he was expected to just make plays, which is exactly what he did.

For the second time, why the disclaimer 'pure' QB? Why not just say Matt Ryan is a better QB than Vick. Period.

I want you and userpikk to say "Matt Ryan is a better QB than Michael Vick". My guess is that you can't, because if you could you would have done it by now and you would not be continuing to argue.

 

[Senser81]

lets not also forget,

Ryan threw 16 TD's and 11 interceptions last year... 87.something passer rating

Great rookie year, but its not like HE ALONE carried the falcons last year

1,700 rushing yards > 16 touchdown passes with 11 interceptions

Who is this posting directed to? I don't remember saying Matt Ryan alone carried the Falcons last year. Nice try, though.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Again, your hatred of Matt Ryan is astounding. You'd actually agree with someone who said 'all of the success the Falcons had throwing the football was due to Michael Turner'? Do you think White and Jenkins would have had similar seasons if Turner was on the team but Vick was the QB instead of Ryan?

This is where you really sound retarded...

as I previously said, Matt Ryan is a better PURE QUARTERBACK then Michael Vick

obviously the numbers wouldn't have been the same. I don't think anyone SANE would say the would be.

 

[Point Blank]

Senser, how many Falcons games did you watch when Michael Vick was there? Not including primetime games. Just curious..

 

[ThunderHorse]

I don't think anyone has a problem saying Ryan is a better quarterback then Vick...

better football player? no, definitely not, as he doesn't bring everything to the table that Vick did.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Who is this posting directed to? I don't remember saying Matt Ryan alone carried the Falcons last year. Nice try, though.

= Michael Turner carried the team

you said I'm just a Matt Ryan hater... which is retarded, but I decided to roll with it.

Ryan's success was mediocre if you look at a regular or veteran QB, as a rookie its beautiful, because you know he has no where to go but up. but to sit here and act like HE is the reason the passing game was so much better, and that He is the reason the run game was so much better, is nothing more the idiotic.

I mean, seriously... anyone who watched the Falcons this year like I did could see that Michael Turner struck the fear of GOD into everyone that played him... I mean, Jesus Christ, point blank had a sig of Turner dragging a fucking LINEBACKER.

The only thing I REALLY disagree with you about is the idea that the flourishing passing game in Atlanta is because of Matt Ryan. when you have a runningback that can outrun the entire defense let alone drag linebackers, I think it explains itself.

 

[Senser81]

Jesus,

anyone who hasn't recognized that Turner is the wheels that put the Faclons in motion is simply a fan boy or delusional.

don't get it twisted... I'm no Vick cock sucker, I could care less how his career ended up or what he did, just to sit here and act like Vick wasn't a great player is borderline retarded.

Vick wasn't a great player. He was an exciting player. People thought the entire Atlanta franchise would collapse without Vick ("he sold so many tickets for the Falcons...he was the face of the franchise...the Falcons will be nothing without Vick"), yet only TWO YEARS after Vick almost single-handedly ruined the franchise the Falcons are BETTER.

and on the flip side, I swear I remember saying I thought Ryan would be an elite quarterback in the NFL soon... doesn't sound like hatred to me.

Followed by...

in the playoff game against Arizona, Turner managed to get 42 yards, and averaged 2.3 yards a carry... what happened after that? oh yea, Atlanta Lost... and the rookie phenom who everyone said was carrying the falcons all year did what? oh yea, he fumbled, gave up a safety, and threw two interceptions.

You can't be serious....

 

[Senser81]

Senser, how many Falcons games did you watch when Michael Vick was there? Not including primetime games. Just curious..

All of them. DirectTV has been around for a few years now. What is your point?

 

[Senser81]

This is where you really sound retarded...

as I previously said, Matt Ryan is a better PURE QUARTERBACK then Michael Vick

obviously the numbers wouldn't have been the same. I don't think anyone SANE would say the would be.

Why isn't Ryan a better QUARTERBACK than Michael Vick?

 

[killgod]

he isn't.

Michael Vick is a better ATHLETE than Ryan. but that's where it ends.