Vikings locker room divided on Favre?

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

The players wouldn't care if Favre came into camp and participated in all of the drills and bonded with the players like everyone else.

However, Favre basically let the process go on so long and didn't participate in shit, and just shows up one day, given the football, and named the starter.

I understand he is Brett Favre and all, but c'mon...

 

[The Messenger]

Favre is a lot better option that Tavaris and Rosenfels. T-Jack couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with 100 footballs in hand. Rosenfels had one decent season, and that came with the Texans offense and he was only good in 3 games that season out of the 9 he played, the other 6 games were awful. He looked no better than Tavaris Jackson in those games. Last year Rosenfels was crap, his only decent game was against Minnesota. He's no better than David Carr. He has a high completion percentage because he's always hitting people short and the offense doesn't go anywhere.

Brett Favre can still play ball way better than those two. He'll have a better chance in Minnesota to finish the season strong because he'll be playing 8 games in a dome. Add on Adrian Peterson, the best runningback in the NFL, who will lighten Favre's load tremendously from last year. That Jets team's turnaround was because of Brett Favre, and when Favre couldn't do it anymore that team failed because Favre was the only reason they were there to begin with. The year before, their running game sucked. Why? Because they had noodle-armed Chad Pennington and teams stacked 8 in the box every play because Chad couldn't get the ball down field. Then they add in Favre who can air it out and teams can't play the run every single play.

How do you think the Vikings are? The same exact way. You had T-Jack and Gus Bus who weren't threats to bomb the ball down the field, so teams stacked the box against AP all game. With guys like Berrian and Harvin, and Favre throwing the ball, teams will have to drop more guys back in coverage. At the very least with Favre, you have a guy who can do the same things on the field as T-Jack and Rosenfels (AT THE VERY LEAST), who will also open up the running game tremendously.

If I was a Vikings fan I wouldn't be worried about the locker room thing right now at all. Favre doesn't like to hang out and joke with his teammates because he said himself that he's an old guy from another era and he doesn't fit in in the locker room with the young guys.

 

[Maynard]

you guys are foolish and naive if you dont thing the farve signing played out exactly as they planned. There is no doubt that the vikings knew farve was going to wait and sign when he did. The team, players and coaches all knew in advance.

this espn article is nothing more then another sports writer creating a story that has no real source to question. Its a story that has basis for being true, but is created to give the media something else to write about.

farve isnt ruining his legacy, the media is by constantly reporting on shit that doesnt really matter. his abilities are still there which is why the vikings are using him rather then sage and jackson......

and LMAO @ anyone who thinks this team would be just as good with those 2 backups running the team.....lol

 

[shag773]

Farve isn't ruining his legacy. No more than Johnny Unitas going to San Diego or Joe Namath going to San Francisco.

I do believe there has to be some sort of backlash from his teammates because he did not participate in training camp.

Is he better than T-Jack and Sage? Of course. Does that gap between Favre and the two back ups cancel out because of a possible divided lockroom. Time will tell.

 

[Senser81]

Is he better than T-Jack and Sage? Of course. Does that gap between Favre and the two back ups cancel out because of a possible divided lockroom. Time will tell.

So Childress won't start Favre because of the 'divided lockerroom'?!

Do you think the lockerroom would be 'united' if Sage Rosenfels started and Favre sat on the bench? If so, then how could it be divided right now?

A coach letting the players dictate his decisions is a recipe for disaster. Players play. Coaches coach.

 

[bucky]

Favre is a lot better option that Tavaris and Rosenfels. Brett Favre can still play ball way better than those two

Better or worse? at Brett's age, I wouldn't be surprised either way. He may still have something left.

He'll have a better chance in Minnesota to finish the season strong because he'll be playing 8 games in a dome.

Artificial Turf isn't the best kind of field for avoiding injuries, so I don't understand how a Dome helps his age here. A dome does help is play in not having to deal with the elements, where Brett has struggled lately.

That Jets team's turnaround was because of Brett Favre, and when Favre couldn't do it anymore that team failed because Favre was the only reason they were there to begin with.

Really, the significant additions on OL and DL the Jets made had nothing to do with the Jet's season? Only Brett? I think you are giving Brett a little too much credit here?

Weren't the Jets 10-6 in 2006? With noodle arm? Didn't Noodle arm take Miami to the playoffs?

The year before, their running game sucked. Why? Because they had noodle-armed Chad Pennington and teams stacked 8 in the box every play because Chad couldn't get the ball down field. Then they add in Favre who can air it out and teams can't play the run every single play.

Watching a pre-season game, I heard one of the booth guys quiz the rest on what RB had the most rushing yards over the past 4 years. I didn't go look at stats to verify it, but it was said. The guy was Thomas Jones.

"On March 5, 2007 the Bears traded Jones and their second-round pick (63rd overall) in the 2007 NFL Draft to the New York Jets"

Wasn't that the year before Brett went to NYJ? Didnt' Jones have 1100+ yards that year? Couldn't the new OL additions account for some of the extra 200 yards in 2008? or was it entirely Brett Favre?

 

[bucky]

So Childress won't start Favre because of the 'divided lockerroom'?!

Do you think the lockerroom would be 'united' if Sage Rosenfels started and Favre sat on the bench? If so, then how could it be divided right now?

A coach letting the players dictate his decisions is a recipe for disaster. Players play. Coaches coach.

Wish you were around to tell Brett that a couple of years ago.

Can we add GM's GM?

 

[The Messenger]

Better or worse? at Brett's age, I wouldn't be surprised either way. He may still have something left.



Artificial Turf isn't the best kind of field for avoiding injuries, so I don't understand how a Dome helps his age here. A dome does help is play in not having to deal with the elements, where Brett has struggled lately.



Really, the significant additions on OL and DL the Jets made had nothing to do with the Jet's season? Only Brett? I think you are giving Brett a little too much credit here?

Weren't the Jets 10-6 in 2006? With noodle arm? Didn't Noodle arm take Miami to the playoffs?



Watching a pre-season game, I heard one of the booth guys quiz the rest on what RB had the most rushing yards over the past 4 years. I didn't go look at stats to verify it, but it was said. The guy was Thomas Jones.

"On March 5, 2007 the Bears traded Jones and their second-round pick (63rd overall) in the 2007 NFL Draft to the New York Jets"

Wasn't that the year before Brett went to NYJ? Didnt' Jones have 1100+ yards that year? Couldn't the new OL additions account for some of the extra 200 yards in 2008? or was it entirely Brett Favre?

Not to say that you don't deserve a response, but I've went over this in a thread earlier this year and don't feel like doing it again. Yes the o-line and d-line improvements helped, but the point I was making was that Brett Favre's ability to throw the long ball effectively helped the Jets more than anything else on offense.

The Jets were 4-12 in 2007, I don't know why you bring up their record from 2006 because faces come and go every year, it makes more sense to compare the team from year to year than from 2 years ago to this year. The Jets were 1-8 with Pennington in 2007, 3-4 without him. In 2006 Pennington sucked ass as well, but that's beside the point.

Jones ran for 1,100 yards in 2007 because the Jets couldn't do anything else. You see how his yards per rush jumped nearly a whole yard from 2007 to 2008? Went from 1 TD in 07 to 13 in 08? How he ran for 200 more yards in 2008 on 20 less carries?

Like I said, some of that comes from the O-Line which improved, but you can't take away the importance of having a quarterback out there who can stretch the field and make you pay if you are stacking the box.

 

[bucky]

Yes the o-line and d-line improvements helped, but the point I was making was that Brett Favre's ability to throw the long ball effectively helped the Jets more than anything else on offense.

You're stating an opinion as if it were fact (Brett Farve > OL improvements in running game). I believe both helped the running game improve. Two former 1st round picks on the O-Line. I think you're giving Brett too much credit for this and not enough to the O-Line additions.

I would also give the improvements on DL some credit for the better record. And I also give QB credit, b/4 injury, for improved record.

The Jets were 4-12 in 2007, I don't know why you bring up their record from 2006 because faces come and go every year,

To show that they had good seasons with old noodle arm. They even ran the ball successfully with old noodle arm.

2004 2388 4.5
2003 1635 4.0

I don't think that Brett was on the team them. You're not giving the O-Line nearly enough credit.

And, yes, faces do come and go. So why are you comparing the previous year? And then only recognize just one change of many?

Jones ran for 1,100 yards in 2007 because the Jets couldn't do anything else. You see how his yards per rush jumped nearly a whole yard from 2007 to 2008? Went from 1 TD in 07 to 13 in 08? How he ran for 200 more yards in 2008 on 20 less carries?

2004 2388 4.5
2003 1635 4.0

Noodle arm was on the team in 2003, 2004, not Brett. The point is, NYJ were able to run the ball with old noodle arm.

Wanna explain Noodle arms success in Miami?

And way to give so little credit for the 2008 rushing numbers to the significant improvements at O-Line.

Like I said, some of that comes from the O-Line which improved, but you can't take away the importance of having a quarterback out there who can stretch the field and make you pay if you are stacking the box.

More than just some of the improvement comes from the O-Line. And you also can't take away the importance of getting 8-9 out of the box (agreed). I prefer to give credit all around, and not to just one personnel move.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if Brett tanked or had a decent year. At his age, you just don't know. If his arm loses much strength, he's done. He never had very good technique. He won't be able to fall back on it like other QB's do late in their career. And you have to keep him under control and not let him make those critical mistakes at crucial times. The kind he made even during his prime.

I'm a BF (GB) fan, but at his age, and his recent work ethic, I'm not sold on him until I see him play this season.

I've been doing the same with Kurt Warner every year (lately). Not sold on him until I see him play, only because of his age.

 

[ram29jackson]

Who didn't see this coming from a mile away?

Brett Favre sucks ass now. Who the fuck in their right mind thought he was going to take them to a Super Bowl? He's not better than Tavares Jackson or Sage Rosenfels, just a really stupid move by Minnesota.

Another ignorant statement. if there is any amount of truth to that article.Its not Bretts fault or problem. If theres any idiots like that in the locker room,They need to shut up, do their jobs and help the team win. I guarantee you, the receivers arent complaining-

 

[Prodigal Son]

Another ignorant statement. if there is any amount of truth to that article.Its not Bretts fault or problem. If theres any idiots like that in the locker room,They need to shut up, do their jobs and help the team win. I guarantee you, the receivers arent complaining-

Really? Wouldn't piss you off to have a guy who's in his early 40's coming onto your team, making 10 million, getting to miss the entire training camp and all the mini camps, and coming on to your team 3 weeks before the season after basically cock teasing the franchsie for the previous month or so?

The same guy who has a torn muscle in his throwing shoulder, and ended up disappearing in the 2nd half of the season because of shoulder problems.

I guarantee there's plenty of pissed Vikings on that team because he's basically done what he's wanted.

 

[Senser81]

Really? Wouldn't piss you off to have a guy who's in his early 40's coming onto your team, making 10 million, getting to miss the entire training camp and all the mini camps, and coming on to your team 3 weeks before the season after basically cock teasing the franchsie for the previous month or so?

The same guy who has a torn muscle in his throwing shoulder, and ended up disappearing in the 2nd half of the season because of shoulder problems.

I guarantee there's plenty of pissed Vikings on that team because he's basically done what he's wanted.

No, I wouldn't be pissed off. You act as if Brett Favre is the first veteran player in NFL history to avoid training camp. Come on.

If I were a Viking player, I would want the guy who gives me the best chance of winning playing at the QB spot. That would be Favre, IMO, until proven otherwise.

 

[shag773]

So Childress won't start Favre because of the 'divided lockerroom'?!

Do you think the lockerroom would be 'united' if Sage Rosenfels started and Favre sat on the bench? If so, then how could it be divided right now?

A coach letting the players dictate his decisions is a recipe for disaster. Players play. Coaches coach.

No, not bringing him in would of kept the lockeroom united. I'm sure you watched him with the Jets last year. A lot of people look at this situation and say "Brettt Favre over T. Jack and Sage, no brainer". Really? You realize his MVP days are long behind him. This isn't the same guy who took the Packers to 2 straight Super Bowls. Last year showed how much he has physically regressed. That's why he retired in the first place. The Vikings had to beg him to come back. Beg a 40 year old quarterback who really didn't want to play to try and lead your team to a Super Bowl. What message does that send to your team. That you want to win now? How about "desperation"? Football players are a different breed of athlete. All through the offseason and minicamp they were told to believe they can win with the 2 quarterbacks they have, and I'm sure a lot of them bought into that. Now they have to buy into a quarterback who could barely throw the ball 30 yards the last 4 games last year?

So again I ask, does the talent gap between Favre and T Jack/Rosenfels cancel out a divided lockeroom?

 

[Senser81]

No, not bringing him in would of kept the lockeroom united. I'm sure you watched him with the Jets last year. A lot of people look at this situation and say "Brettt Favre over T. Jack and Sage, no brainer". Really? You realize his MVP days are long behind him. This isn't the same guy who took the Packers to 2 straight Super Bowls. Last year showed how much he has physically regressed. That's why he retired in the first place. The Vikings had to beg him to come back. Beg a 40 year old quarterback who really didn't want to play to try and lead your team to a Super Bowl. What message does that send to your team. That you want to win now? How about "desperation"? Football players are a different breed of athlete. All through the offseason and minicamp they were told to believe they can win with the 2 quarterbacks they have, and I'm sure a lot of them bought into that. Now they have to buy into a quarterback who could barely throw the ball 30 yards the last 4 games last year?

So again I ask, does the talent gap between Favre and T Jack/Rosenfels cancel out a divided lockeroom?

Huh? I still don't get it. You are saying the Vikings never should have signed Favre. Are you kidding me?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Some of you people need your heads examined, as do any Vikings who truly think Favre gives them less of a chance to win.

Brett Favre played at a Pro Bowl level before he hurt his shoulder last year, and even post injury, was no worse than bums like T. Jackson and S. Rosenfels.

This signing was a no brainer, no matter what the RDE or #3 WR might think.

 

[The Messenger]

You're stating an opinion as if it were fact (Brett Farve > OL improvements in running game). I believe both helped the running game improve. Two former 1st round picks on the O-Line. I think you're giving Brett too much credit for this and not enough to the O-Line additions.

I would also give the improvements on DL some credit for the better record. And I also give QB credit, b/4 injury, for improved record.



To show that they had good seasons with old noodle arm. They even ran the ball successfully with old noodle arm.

2004 2388 4.5
2003 1635 4.0

I don't think that Brett was on the team them. You're not giving the O-Line nearly enough credit.

And, yes, faces do come and go. So why are you comparing the previous year? And then only recognize just one change of many?



2004 2388 4.5
2003 1635 4.0

Noodle arm was on the team in 2003, 2004, not Brett. The point is, NYJ were able to run the ball with old noodle arm.

Wanna explain Noodle arms success in Miami?

And way to give so little credit for the 2008 rushing numbers to the significant improvements at O-Line.



More than just some of the improvement comes from the O-Line. And you also can't take away the importance of getting 8-9 out of the box (agreed). I prefer to give credit all around, and not to just one personnel move.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if Brett tanked or had a decent year. At his age, you just don't know. If his arm loses much strength, he's done. He never had very good technique. He won't be able to fall back on it like other QB's do late in their career. And you have to keep him under control and not let him make those critical mistakes at crucial times. The kind he made even during his prime.

I'm a BF (GB) fan, but at his age, and his recent work ethic, I'm not sold on him until I see him play this season.

I've been doing the same with Kurt Warner every year (lately). Not sold on him until I see him play, only because of his age.

What it comes down to is me and you are basically agreeing on everything except for how much importance Brett Favre played in the Jets winning last season.

My argument as to why he is more important stems from the fact that that team went as Brett went. When Brett was playing well, that team won games. When Brett couldn't do it anymore, that team lost those games. That's why I think Brett had a little more to do with the Jets success than the O-line and D-line improvements, just a little.

 

[jeffx]

Some of you people need your heads examined, as do any Vikings who truly think Favre gives them less of a chance to win.

Brett Favre played at a Pro Bowl level before he hurt his shoulder last year, and even post injury, was no worse than bums like T. Jackson and S. Rosenfels.

This signing was a no brainer, no matter what the RDE or #3 WR might think.

All you need to know is Gang Green was 8-3, with big wins against NE & Tennessee. Favre made big throws in those games Chad could not. Then he got hurt and things went downhill.

 

[shag773]

Huh? I still don't get it. You are saying the Vikings never should have signed Favre. Are you kidding me?

I don't know, all I'm saying is it's not as cut and dry as people make it out to be. You bring in Favre, now all of the sudden it's "Superbowl or bust". Is it really fair to put that on Favre at this stage of his career? If you thought the Vikings were a playoff team before Favre, which many people did and they were last year, does a 40 year old Favre automatically thrust you past the Eagles, Giants, Bears, Cardinals and maybe the Packers? Not with the Favre I saw last year.

 

[The Messenger]

I don't know, all I'm saying is it's not as cut and dry as people make it out to be. You bring in Favre, now all of the sudden it's "Superbowl or bust". Is it really fair to put that on Favre at this stage of his career? If you thought the Vikings were a playoff team before Favre, which many people did and they were last year, does a 40 year old Favre automatically thrust you past the Eagles, Giants, Bears, Cardinals and maybe the Packers? Not with the Favre I saw last year.

The Cardinals were jack shit in the regular season and they've struggled to keep that mediocre defense together. The Bears aren't automatically a playoff team just because they got cutler. I'll give you the Eagles and Giants, but I don't see how you list the Packers who won all of 6 games last year. Minnesota won 10 without Favre. Giants are a toss-up because their receiver corps is trash now and they lost Ward.

 

[bucky]

What it comes down to is me and you are basically agreeing on everything except for how much importance Brett Favre played in the Jets winning last season.

Yes we are. We're not disagreeing on much at all.

Edit: NYJ went downhill when Brett started playing like hot trash due to injury. Not because he was playing just average. Not many teams will do well when there QB is playing so poorly.

That's the very reason I put Brett and Warner in the same category. I have a hard time trusting either one till I see them in action, because of age.