VSN's Top 10 NFL Quarterbacks.

[FirstTimer]

They are the most successful Quarterbacks in the NFL. There is a big difference between success and saying whos the best which many people seem to forget. Btw you bringing up Peyton's MVP's is no better then say someone bringing up superbowl championships. If that was the case then Barry Sanders and Shaun Alexander are identical because they both have 1 MVP. But everyone knows you cant judge people by awards.

You can bring up MVP's as it can be part of the discussion on a player, but not the whole story alone. In this case I don't think they were saying it was the end all be all for Manning, just one factor.

 

[Archer]

You can bring up MVP's as it can be part of the discussion on a player, but not the whole story alone. In this case I don't think they were saying it was the end all be all for Manning, just one factor.

Exactly.

 

[Archer]

Im as much of a Kurt Warner fan as the next guy but i just find it hard to beleive Manning and Brady arnt 1 and 2 in whatever order you want it.

 

[FirstTimer]

Rhodes had over 100 yards rushing with a TD. You're thinking of Addai.

Yeah I edited.

Even still, The Bears run defense had been bad all playoffs and they were going to let anyone on the Colts beat them running. They just didn't want to let Manning beat them passing on the outside so you saw a lot of bid drops by the LB's into zones leaving a lot of space underneath for manning to check down and a lot of open running lanes. Rhodes had a nice game rushing but I wasn't overly impressed. I was more impressed with Mannigns dissection of the Cover 2 against the Bears honestly because even Brees of New Orleans wasn't able to do that to the Bears.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

You can bring up MVP's as it can be part of the discussion on a player, but not the whole story alone. In this case I don't think they were saying it was the end all be all for Manning, just one factor.

I am just saying people get pissed off when someone brings up superbowls. Why cant I get pissed when someone brings up MVP's. Look at Steve Mcnair. He only had around three good seasons from 01-03 and still gets praised because of his co MVP award.

 

[Gonzo]

I am just saying people get pissed off when someone brings up superbowls. Why cant I get pissed when someone brings up MVP's. Look at Steve Mcnair. He only had around three good seasons from 01-03 and still gets praised because of his co MVP award.

It's not like McNair didn't have the talent to warrant the award that season.

 

[FirstTimer]

I am just saying people get pissed off when someone brings up superbowls. Why cant I get pissed when someone brings up MVP's. Look at Steve Mcnair. He only had around three good seasons from 01-03 and still gets praised because of his co MVP award.

You can get pissed if they have tunnel vision and ONLY want to mention ONE thing as a factor. That's ignorant and close minded, but it's also not really sensible to get angry over someone bringing up the MVP as one factor in a larger argument for a player being better when it's a valid piece to the puzzle.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

You can get pissed if they have tunnel vision and ONLY want to mention ONE thing as a factor. That's ignorant and close minded, but it's also not really sensible to get angry over someone bringing up the MVP as one factor in a larger argument for a player being better when it's a valid piece to the puzzle.

How is it a valid piece of the puzzle though? Most seasons there are about two or three candidates that could win MVP. This year the award could of went to numerous of players. What about all the great players who have not won an MVP. The MVP goes to the most Valuable player not the best. Offensive player of the year goes to the best offensive player.

 

[FirstTimer]

How is it a valid piece of the puzzle though? Most seasons there are about two or three candidates that could win MVP. This year the award could of went to numerous of players. What about all the great players who have not won an MVP. The MVP goes to the most Valuable player not the best. Offensive player of the year goes to the best offensive player.

How isn't it a valid piece of the puzzle to be seen as the Most Valuable Player in the NFL?

yes any number of players could win the MVP any given year which makes it more impressive that only one does.

It's asinine to argue that MVP's somehow aren't a piece to a valid argument as to who is a better player forone season and and over the course of their career(especially dealing with multiple winners)...and it's not like Offensive/Defensive player of the year awards can't be taken into consideration too......

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

How isn't it a valid piece of the puzzle to be seen as the Most Valuable Player in the NFL?

yes any number of players could win the MVP any given year which makes it more impressive that only one does.

It's asinine to argue that MVP's somehow aren't a piece to a valid argument as to who is a better player forone season and and over the course of their career(especially dealing with multiple winners)

Because the MVP award doesnt always represent the best player. IMO they should go to the player most valuable to there team in the season. I mean this year was Peytons worst season(it wasnt a bad season at all but wasnt his best) since 02. Philip Rivers had better all around stats than Manning this year but wasnt as valuable as Manning was. Drew Brees also put up big numbers but wasnt even considered because he was on the saints. Now most of the time when a player puts up big numbers he wins the MVP because usually there team does good. This year was different because there werent really any standout numbers on for offensive players. This is why I believe all awards should be announced after the superbowl. If you compare Peyton's stats of this year to the last 4 MVP winners his stats dont even contend. Granted the last 4 all broke records. I am just saying an MVP award is not based on stats IMO and this year proved it.

This is what I say in regards to an MVP award

• You take Manning off the Colts and they are not a playoffs team.
• You take Brady off the Pats and they werent a playoff team.
• You take LT off the Chargers(when he had the record year)they dont make the playoffs

You take Brees off the saints where are they? Still in last place.

Well obviously I went completely off topic in my which doesnt have anything to do with the topic of the thread or what I quoted but I wanted to get this out.

 

[kmanharris]

1)Brady
2)Manning
3)Cutler
4)Warner
5)Big Ben
6)Brees
7)Rodgers
8)Thigpen
9)E. Manning
10)Mcnabb

over Romo? lol

 

[FirstTimer]

Because the MVP award doesnt always represent the best player. IMO they should go to the player most valuable to there team in the season.

According to the AP it goes to the player most valuable to the NFL. Not team. team is a retarded idea because this year you would have had a guy like Matt Forte of the Bears being a legit contender for the award.

I mean this year was Peytons worst season(it wasnt a bad season at all but wasnt his best) since 02. Philip Rivers had better all around stats than Manning this year but wasnt as valuable as Manning was. Drew Brees also put up big numbers but wasnt even considered because he was on the saints.

Rivers had a legit case but Manning carried, frankly, outside of Reggie Wayne, an average Colts offense. It's tough for Brees to be "Most Valuable to the NFL" when he's not even in the playoffs.

This year was different because there werent really any standout numbers on for offensive players. This is why I believe all awards should be announced after the superbowl. If you compare Peyton's stats of this year to the last 4 MVP winners his stats dont even contend.

But it's not solely a "stat based" award. No MVP is. There are all sorts of factors that go into the voting of the MVP award from stats, to team success, etc because humans with different mind sets and ideas are voting for it.

Granted the last 4 all broke records. I am just saying an MVP award is not based on stats IMO and this year proved it.

Obviously.............

This is what I say in regards to an MVP award

• You take Manning off the Colts and they are not a playoffs team.
• You take Brady off the Pats and they werent a playoff team.
• You take LT off the Chargers(when he had the record year)they dont make the playoffs

You take Brees off the saints where are they? Still in last place.

Well obviously I went completely off topic in my which doesnt have anything to do with the topic of the thread or what I quoted but I wanted to get this out.

You take Matt Forte off the Bears and they are 2-14. The guy was the teams leading rusher, receiver, and scorer(for a non kicker) He put up 72 points of offense this year....the next closest. 30. He accounted for around 33% of all the Bears offensive output this season. By your standard from the top he most likely should have been MVP this year.

All that off topic stuff being said MVP is a legit piece to the puzzle for deciding who is the better player, especially over the course of a career. I have yet to see ONE legit reason that it's not.

 

[mgoblue2290]

1. Brady
2. Peyton
3. Warner
4. Rivers
5. Big Ben
6. Brees
7. McNabb
8. Cutler
9. Eli
10. Romo

 

[Archer]

Peyton came back from a bad knee (much worse than anyone thought) basicly shudnt have been on the feild the first 4 weeks. (we cudnt even run the strech play cause of his knee) and still picked his team up from a dismal record with a tough schedule ahead of us to the playoffs. His last 4-5 games of the season he was almost flawless. This wasnt the Indianapolis Colts that bulldozed everyone in their sight in the regualr season , we had to grind through every game . Oline was savaged , Addai was constantlly injuried , Harrison not what he once was. Imo , Peyton Manning was the deserved MVP of the league .

I dont care what you say , nobody did more for their team than Peyton Manning did last season.

PS. Sorry for going off track

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

According to the AP it goes to the player most valuable to the NFL. Not team. team is a retarded idea because this year you would have had a guy like Matt Forte of the Bears being a legit contender for the award.


Rivers had a legit case but Manning carried, frankly, outside of Reggie Wayne, an average Colts offense. It's tough for Brees to be "Most Valuable to the NFL" when he's not even in the playoffs.



But it's not solely a "stat based" award. No MVP is. There are all sorts of factors that go into the voting of the MVP award from stats, to team success, etc because humans with different mind sets and ideas are voting for it.


Obviously.............


You take Matt Forte off the Bears and they are 2-14. The guy was the teams leading rusher, receiver, and scorer(for a non kicker) He put up 72 points of offense this year....the next closest. 30. He accounted for around 33% of all the Bears offensive output this season. By your standard from the top he most likely should have been MVP this year.

All that off topic stuff being said MVP is a legit piece to the puzzle for deciding who is the better player, especially over the course of a career. I have yet to see ONE legit reason that it's not.

you pretty much agreed with everything? I was stating why Brees shouldnt of got the MVP and you agreed with me. I said it wasnt a stat based award and you agreed. Your Matt Forte thing didnt have anything to do to what I said because I think the winner should be on a playoffs team. The bears with Forte are not a playoff team and this year the bears with Forte were not a playoff team. But thanks for agreeing with me but trying to sound like you disagree.

 

[steeljake]

1. peyton manning
2. tom brady
3. mcnabb
4. roethlisberger
5. brees
6. rivers
7. warner
8. romo
9. hasselbeck
10. matt ryan

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

Peyton came back from a bad knee (much worse than anyone thought) basicly shudnt have been on the feild the first 4 weeks. (we cudnt even run the strech play cause of his knee) and still picked his team up from a dismal record with a tough schedule ahead of us to the playoffs. His last 4-5 games of the season he was almost flawless. This wasnt the Indianapolis Colts that bulldozed everyone in their sight in the regualr season , we had to grind through every game . Oline was savaged , Addai was constantlly injuried , Harrison not what he once was. Imo , Peyton Manning was the deserved MVP of the league .

I dont care what you say , nobody did more for their team than Peyton Manning did last season.

PS. Sorry for going off track

Peyton did deserve MVP. He has deserved it all three times that he won it. I just think using MVP's to describe if a player is better is know better than using SB.

 

[FirstTimer]

you pretty much agreed with everything? I was stating why Brees shouldnt of got the MVP and you agreed with me. I said it wasnt a stat based award and you agreed. Your Matt Forte thing didnt have anything to do to what I said because I think the winner should be on a playoffs team. The bears with Forte are not a playoff team and this year the bears with Forte were not a playoff team. But thanks for agreeing with me but trying to sound like you disagree.

I figured a new board would have some smarter people. I guess not. I brought up the Forte stuff to disprove this one singular idea you had:

Because the MVP award doesnt always represent the best player. IMO they should go to the player most valuable to there team in the season.

So now your standard is player most valuable to their team that made the playoffs?


All of this still doesn't change the fact that I still have yet to see you show anyone here my MVP shouldn't be a piece of the puzzle in who determining the better player is.

 

[Archer]

Peyton did deserve MVP. He has deserved it all three times that he won it. I just think using MVP's to describe if a player is better is know better than using SB.

Not really cause a dominant d and run game can carry an awful qb to a sb . But they cant for mvp.

 

[FirstTimer]

Peyton did deserve MVP. He has deserved it all three times that he won it. I just think using MVP's to describe if a player is better is know better than using SB.

Yes and No.

Yes. It's no better than blindly looking ONLY at the award. It can be used as one factor though.

No. Because the MVP is specifically an individual award and the Super Bowl is a team accomplishment.

Essentially looking at either as the only factor alone when dealing with comparing players is idiotic. But it's also idiotic to completely ignore them both.