When will the Patriots realize that they need to draft a WR?

[Houston]

TB12 doesn't need a big time WR.

 

[killgod]

Some practice squad bum we took from Tampa that's now leading the NFL in interceptions (7) with 65 tackles and 19 Passes defended = $730,000 cap hit.

3 Interceptions, 26 tackles and 8 passes defended (also got repeatedly torched by a practice squad guy named Victor Cruz) = $10,000,000 Cap Hit





Who's doing it wrong?

 

[jms493]

nice posts KG

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

I cant fathom how anyone can look at the Pats team the last few years and think WR is there issue...smh.

 

[Mogriffjr]

You mean the guy we scooped off some team's practice squad (perhaps it was KC? I don't remember) who now leads the NFL in interceptions? We apparently need to pay Asomugha 100M for that? Yeah OK! Seems like we made a mistake by not getting "great/elite" talent!" It doesn't always work and is a bigger risk than trying to find a unknown talent that fits but you insinuate that spending the big dollars is the only way to go...

BB gets great value from his players and minimizes risk, that's how you live in the Salary Cap era and consistently have the ability to perform near the top of the table. If you lock into large contracts on big time talent that shits the bed, you're fucked. How is it helping the teams that make those moves?

Is D-Will in Carolina worth the money so far?
Is CJ in Tennessee worth the money so far?
Is Bradford in St Louis worth the money so far?
Is Asomugha in Philly worth the money so far?
Is Routt worth 10M in Oakland?
Paul Soliai making god knows what the fuck in Miami. Nobody even knows who this fuck is.
How did Fat Albert 100M work out in Washington? He then came to NE, on a calculated risk that cost us little and nothing to let him go.

How about Mark Sanchez? Is he worth 17 Million Fucking Dollars this season? :troll:


And what the fuck, are we supposed to win the Superbowl on every trip to the playoffs to justify the system? Like wtf kind of logic are trying to put out here? If it doesn't win every year then the system is broken?

Newsflash, you haven't even been to a Super Bowl, so what's your system if our's is broken?

LOL, you haven't won a playoff game in 3 years...but keep thinking everything is fine and dandy because you guys ARE held to a higher standard than almost every other team the last few years.

I doin't brag much because my teams don't have much to brag, but we have gotten further then the Pats the last two years.

 

[jms493]

IMO the Pats loss to the Giants I blame on Belichick as well as the loss to the Jets last year. Play calling was very suspect.

 

[killgod]

I cant fathom how anyone can look at the Pats team the last few years and think WR is there issue...smh.

As I said when tailback asked me, I think it's obvious we need a physical presences over the middle and a better pass rush. OL could use an upgrade but it's not in a bad spot with the recent injection of talent, which I would wager will get more come next draft when BB moves down the draft to get the less costly but almost same probability of being studs in the 2nd round.

Some of you guys should read up the data on the probability of becoming stars based on draft position. Drafting high as always been, and will always be a way worse risk than working the late 1st and 2nd round. Doesn't mean there aren't elite players in the top 10, but it's a crap shoot at the money they ask compared to what a 2nd rounder gets.

 

[jms493]

I know BJGE never fumbles but they really could use a solid HB. Moving the chains seems to be solely Brady, Welker and Gronk's job. In those cold winter month's running is a nice feature.

 

[killgod]

LOL, you haven't won a playoff game in 3 years...but keep thinking everything is fine and dandy because you guys ARE held to a higher standard than almost every other team the last few years.

I doin't brag much because my teams don't have much to brag, but we have gotten further then the Pats the last two years.

There's 31 losers and 1 winner. You did nothing but drop down the draft board.

How you can look at it any other way is mind boggling to me.


How many NFL teams have 3 playoff berths in the last 10 years? Let alone the last 3?

IMO the Pats loss to the Giants I blame on Belichick as well as the loss to the Jets last year. Play calling was very suspect.

He's not going to nail it everytime, that's just not realistic. I do commend him for playing the numbers and taking risks that most coaches would never do despite what the percentages tell you.

You win most and lose a few, so be it. I'll take that any day, I'll take being a Super Bowl contender year in and out pretty much no matter the roster over any other scenario. Can't see who wouldn't?

Live by the sword, die by the sword ya know? Most coaches leave the sword in the scabbard IMO.

 

[killgod]

I know BJGE never fumbles but they really could use a solid HB. Moving the chains seems to be solely Brady, Welker and Gronk's job. In those cold winter month's running is a nice feature.

1000 yards, no fumbles and 12-15 TD's aint bad. Guy doesn't get enough credit, but a good 2nd option would be a big help.

Wouldn't be surprised if Shane Vereen becomes a out of nowhere feature in the backfield down the stretch.

 

[jms493]

1000 yards, no fumbles and 12-15 TD's aint bad. Guy doesn't get enough credit, but a good 2nd option would be a big help.

Wouldn't be surprised if Shane Vereen becomes a out of nowhere feature in the backfield down the stretch.

it is kind of interesting when you post those stats b/c when i watch him on Sunday I am never really impressed.

It is kind of the same shit with Eli Manning.....everyone hates him and says he sucks and is not a good QB when they watch him (ELIte) but if you post that nigga's stats.....there isnt much to say.

 

[Len B]

I wasn't really trying to attack Tailback U, merely pointing out that Wide Receiver is the least important position in football, and that I'm glad the Patriots recognize this.

Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, etc. have never won Superbowls.

It is extremely rare you'll find a passing team throw their way to a championship, specifically if its an outdoors team. The Green Bay Packers are the only ones who have won with a heavy dosage of passing that play outdoors, but they still needed defensive stops (pick six, and stopping Ben on final drive) to win the Superbowl.

The Saints were able to play dome games in the playoffs, and then face another aerial assault team in the Superbowl, whom also played in a dome.

Look at what Peyton Manning did every time he traveled to New England in the playoffs. Was it a coincidence the only time they won was when it was in a dome in Indy?

In 2006, a heavy indoors passing team got destroyed in Chicago 39-14. Did the Saints need better WR's that year?

Passing, especially if you're an outdoors team, rarely wins you championships. You need a heavy balance of running, and a solid defense. I really don't think it is about who you have at WR, I think it has more to do with the type of football that wins in winter, and that's smart, tough minded defensive football.

The Patriots weakness is that they flat out sucked at drafting from 2004-2010.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Instead of drafting 2 running backs in the 2nd round last year, who don't even play, and a backup QB in the 3rd you'd think they'd at least have tried to get a WR.

Shit, the Raiders got Denarious Moore in the 5th round last season. Wouldn't hurt for them to at least try. It is obviously a need, since they lose to teams that can just hold Branch and Welker up at the LOS every time they meet in the playoffs.

WRs are easier to hit on. Ill give you that.
Alot of there picks really dont pan out when you consider the positions and sheer quantity theyve enjoyed.

I completely disagree.

I am mainly talking about big, physical WRs that can break the press or stretch the field.

Mike Wallace - 3rd round pick

Victor Cruz - Undrafted

Greg Jennings - 2nd round pick

Jordy Nelson - 2nd round pick

Eric Decker (8 TDs) - 3rd round pick

Vincent Jackson - 2nd round pick

Steve Smith (Carolina) - 2nd round pick

Brandon Marshall - 4th round pick

Dwayne Bowe - 1st round pick, 23rd overall.

Roddy White - 1st round pick, 27th overall.

I'm not saying they need a sure fire stud like Calvin or Andre Johnson, but for a team that is considered the best at drafting, they've struck out on receivers or completely given up on trying to draft a good one.

Other than the Packer fellas how many rings are this group holding ?

The phrase "defence wins championships" is proven to be an utter load of bullshit.

By whom ?

Pack 2 Steelers 1
Saints 20 Colts 8
Steelers 1 Ari 28
NYG 17 Pats 4
Colts 23 Bears 3
Pitt 3 Sea 7

Only 4 of the last 12 SB visitors had a defense outside of the top 10.
The exclusions were led by Brees ,Warner ,and Manning.

The Giants front 7 was killing teams that playoff run and that SB.
Other than the Pats shootout Colts only allowed about 10 PPG the other 3 games...that includes a Hester return.

If you want to append it by saying "Defense wins championships unless you have an all time great at QB" the statement is silly or naive.

 

[Len B]

Saints also had a pick six to seal that game...

 

[killgod]

it is kind of interesting when you post those stats b/c when i watch him on Sunday I am never really impressed.

It is kind of the same shit with Eli Manning.....everyone hates him and says he sucks and is not a good QB when they watch him (ELIte) but if you post that nigga's stats.....there isnt much to say.

It's no surprise I'm his #1 hater and give him less credit than he deserves. I was raised to hate the Giants and have my own reason to hate them too. I hate New York sports teams in general. I hate the Mannings, I hate dude's with chick names and just look at his face....you just want to punch the shit out of him do you not?

Although I don't think it's me being a hater saying he's not a top 5 NFL QB, but that's an argument for a different day.

By whom ?

Pack 2 Steelers 1
Saints 20 Colts 8
Steelers 1 Ari 28
NYG 17 Pats 4
Colts 23 Bears 3
Pitt 3 Sea 7

Only 4 of the last 12 SB visitors had a defense outside of the top 10.
The exclusions were led by Brees ,Warner ,and Manning.

The Giants front 7 was killing teams that playoff run and that SB.
Other than the Pats shootout Colts only allowed about 10 PPG the other 3 games...that includes a Hester return.

If you want to append it by saying "Defense wins championships unless you have an all time great at QB" the statement is silly or naive.

Among the 44 Super Bowls the better defensive team (based on points allowed) has won 29 times, the better offensive team 24 times. (Some times the better team on both sides win, thus you have more than the total super bowl's combined there)

How many times has the SB Champ been top 5 defensive during the reg season? 28.

How many times has the SB Champ been top 5 offensively during the reg season? 27.

There have been 407 playoff games in the last 44 seasons. The better defensive team have won 58% of them. The better offensive team has won 62% of them (again, sometimes the team is both).

In almost 10,000 regular season games, the better defensive team has won 66.5% of the games compared to 67.4% for the offensive team.


27 Super Bowls has seen a top 5 offense vs a top 5 defense. The best offensive team won 13, the best defensive team won 14.


You will find similar results in the NBA and NHL.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Among the 44 Super Bowls the better defensive team (based on points allowed) has won 29 times, the better offensive team 24 times. (Some times the better team on both sides win, thus you have more than the total super bowl's combined there)

How many times has the SB Champ been top 5 defensive during the reg season? 28.

How many times has the SB Champ been top 5 offensively during the reg season? 27.

There have been 407 playoff games in the last 44 seasons. The better defensive team have won 58% of them. The better offensive team has won 62% of them (again, sometimes the team is both).

In almost 10,000 regular season games, the better defensive team has won 66.5% of the games compared to 67.4% for the offensive team.


27 Super Bowls has seen a top 5 offense vs a top 5 defense. The best offensive team won 13, the best defensive team won 14.


You will find similar results in the NBA and NHL.

Being the better defensive or offensive team in a singular match up doesnt prove the point.
Having a no.8 face a no.6 and the no 8 winning would look like "the better defensive team lost". The fact is championship was being decided by two top 10 teams.

ex. GB 2 beating Pitt 1... if you can look at that and come away with the lesser defensive team won , you are very much missing the premise of why people say defense wins championships to begin with.

Patriots are a perfect example. Undefeated MVP QB season and you get contained by a team with an inferno defensive line and your defense cant hold a lead and lets a clumsy footed QB complete one of the most miraculous plays in NFL history. The same franchise years earlier who pretty much did the same to the greatest show on turf. You need clutch players on defense and guys who can either turn the ball over or get to the QB. WRs are a dime a dozen.

 

[Bear Pand]

Look at what Peyton Manning did every time he traveled to New England in the playoffs. Was it a coincidence the only time they won was when it was in a dome in Indy?

In 2006, a heavy indoors passing team got destroyed in Chicago 39-14. Did the Saints need better WR's that year?

Passing, especially if you're an outdoors team, rarely wins you championships. You need a heavy balance of running, and a solid defense. I really don't think it is about who you have at WR, I think it has more to do with the type of football that wins in winter, and that's smart, tough minded defensive football.

The Patriots weakness is that they flat out sucked at drafting from 2004-2010.

Which is why it's so bizarre that NE has seemingly got away from playing solid D and running the ball (even though they never had an elite running game) and morphed into a passing team.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Don't know if this has already been said, (it wasn't on page 1)

One thing that seems to be missing here is that against the Steelers/Jets/Ravens that Tailback references, is that the receivers inability to get off blocks is only half the problem.

The weapons on the outside generally aren't the problems in these games, the problems arise when Tom Brady feels pressure. Granted, these are the best defensive pass rushing teams in the league, but it's unfair to reference the 2001-2004, 2007 teams and not touch on the offensive line. Up until the Super Bowl That Will Not Be Named (2007), the Patriots were regarded as having one of the more dominant offensive line groups in the league.

They didn't allow speed rushers around the edge or pure bull rushes up the middle with the regularity they do now. So with Brady's lack of time, he doesn't have time to make his 2nd and 3rd reads. New England's offense is predicated on timing yet he rarely finds a comfortable groove against the top defenses in the league. A stud wide-receiver won't change that. The talent on the offensive line has dropped in past 3 seasons, which throws off Brady in the bigger games.

While I wouldn't be against upgrading WR with a stereotypical 1-WR like a Cruz or a Jackson, I truly believe the only way New England becomes a dominant, elite force is through the upgrades on both interior lines. It's easy to blame the receivers when Brady is rushed to make throws earlier than they are designed to be made.

 

[jms493]

Agreed...as John Madden says the game is won in the trenches. Protecting your QB and attacking the others are 2 of the most important factors in football. Don't overlook a solid special teams unit as well.

 

[killgod]

Agreed...as John Madden says the game is won in the trenches. Protecting your QB and attacking the others are 2 of the most important factors in football. Don't overlook a solid special teams unit as well.

Tell that to some of the hilarious responses in the "who would you start a franchise with" thread.



P.S. Rob Gronkowski says "this thread = :lol:"