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You get the exact same deals and pre-order bonuses through our store front as you do from Amazon so please bookmark this link and use it when you are shopping at Amazon.com - [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/"][COLOR="#0000FF"][U]VSN Amazon Store[/U][/COLOR][/URL] Here are some direct links to pre-order the major upcoming titles- [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9WK2"]PlayStation 4 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVBPRUO"]PlayStation 4 Gold Wireless Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9X9W"]PlayStation 4 DualShock 4 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA3S2"]PlayStation 4 Camera[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DCBDNW6"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J128FPA"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVC4"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GG4BBUM"]MLB 14: The Show[/URL] - May 6th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39KS"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BI83EVU"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHTQ"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574EW"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39HQ"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9ZZ4"]Drive Club[/URL] - September 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUSY"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9S6E"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00C27SCC2"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5YU"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA0SU"]inFAMOUS Second Son Limited Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FYIXMHQ"]inFAMOUS Second Son Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK1IG"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 3[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00B0JALUE"]PlayStation 3 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00AEX81SG"]PlayStation 3 250GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAIE"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY30"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2ZW"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2P2"]Red Faction Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESXSA"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV98"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J6DLPLK"]Drakengard 3[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGHUS58"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHZ0"]Watch Dogs Collectors Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHK0"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHP28Y"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQTFI"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBTCQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HNYWFMC"]Far Cry Compilation [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSIA"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFPZO"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92MU"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP3S"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFCC"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHPK"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD52"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2AK"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2FK"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUUC0"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZYA"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2O4"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox One[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTVUA"]Xbox One Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00MCLFZ1Y"]Xbox One Console Madden 15 Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IIHU44E"]Xbox One Console Titanfall Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVPFGD8"]Titanfall Limited Edition Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUSS"]Xbox One Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDQCK"]Xbox One Stereo Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDOS6"]Xbox One Stereo Headset Adapter[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OB8S"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUCE"]KINECT Sports: Rivals[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVA6"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15h [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESTZW"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39L2"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CX8VY4S"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQI0E"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574CO"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH2HKU"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39EO"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUNO"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAS7E"]Zoo Tycoon[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9SLE"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CYNTHA0"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DB9JYFY"]Titanfall[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSX86"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5WC"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2MQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox 360[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FATRKOK"]Xbox 360 250GB Holiday Value Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ9ESEE"]Xbox 360 250GB Console w/Halo 4, Darksiders II, Tomb Raider and Batman: Arkham City[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B003ZSP0WW"]Xbox 360 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC9SWWE"]Titanfall[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSWZU"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OBB0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY7G"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2G6"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESY6G"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV7K"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGD6LMG"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHNC"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHL4"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHY7LC"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQQUQ"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBVZQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAT3W"]Fable Anniversary[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSJ4"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFQ2Q"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92EI"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP2Y"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFA4"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHTQ"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD6Q"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD26Y"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD27I"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUXLS"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZPE"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2RQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Wii U[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAM0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 22nd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESQKU"]The Amazing Spider-man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7G2W8"]Mario Kart 8[/URL] - May 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH1LJ8"]Transformers Rise of the Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7O77A"]Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOAX34"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL]
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[360] Xbox Live Marketplace/Arcade thread

I just finished the level where you first get the power to Jellify water. I could have succeeded a few times, but kept restarting because I kept boning up and losing villagers/entire villages (too close to the vegetation with the lava FTL). Is that level 5 or 4? Because it was a bit more challenging, definitely than the previous ones.

I think that is Level 4, but I can't be sure.

good impressions, looking forward to getting into that this weekend.

how much was it?

1200 MS points, or $15.

$15...it is going to be on steam on august 17th if you want to use mouse, which might make the game easier to control.

My only real complaint so far has been the controls, but even those have been surprisingly good compared to similar titles.
 
I'm not sure about the mouse either, because the analog triger buttons really come in handy. I'm sure that there will be some sort of slider or something in the PC, but it just seems like that aspect would be a little easier to control on the 360.
 
Weird pricing structure coming for Crimson Alliance?

Weird pricing structure coming for Crimson Alliance?

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/22/crimson-alliance-may-have-price-flexibility-at-launch/

I'm not sure what to say about this? I think the game has three (maybe four) unique characters? So I'm guessing when the game launches you will have the option of only unlocking one for maybe 800pts? Two for 1000?

I normally only play through a game once but it would suck if I paid 800pts for the single character and wanted to play through again with a different character later. Then what? They will probably sell each character separately for 400pts I'm guessing.
 
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/22/crimson-alliance-may-have-price-flexibility-at-launch/

I'm not sure what to say about this? I think the game has three (maybe four) unique characters? So I'm guessing when the game launches you will have the option of only unlocking one for maybe 800pts? Two for 1000?

I normally only play through a game once but it would suck if I paid 800pts for the single character and wanted to play through again with a different character later. Then what? They will probably sell each character separately for 400pts I'm guessing.

sounds good to me.....its better for us who play through once. Worse for people who want to play through with each character.

the other issue is that I cant even try all 3 before deciding which one i want to play through.

This pricing structure is just starting and eventually we will see this will all games i presume.
 
So I was going to buy Warhammer to play co-op with JMS but I head over at Gamefaqs that it only features couch co-op. No online. WTF?!? The board for the game is pretty dead over there too, which is never a good thing. But at least it's only $10 as opposed to how Gatling Gears started out at $15.

We also had a brief discussion about XBLA and PSN games while playing Dungeon Hunter last night. He made a point that Sony does a piss poor job of promoting their PSN games and that MS does a much better job. I would agree mostly but honestly, even with the Summer of Arcade I didn't know anything about a single one of the game, except of course for Fruit Ninja which was a mobile game.

I still want o get Gatling Gears, Bastion, Warhammer and Crimson Alliance whenever that comes out.
 
So I was going to buy Warhammer to play co-op with JMS but I head over at Gamefaqs that it only features couch co-op. No online. WTF?!? The board for the game is pretty dead over there too, which is never a good thing. But at least it's only $10 as opposed to how Gatling Gears started out at $15.

We also had a brief discussion about XBLA and PSN games while playing Dungeon Hunter last night. He made a point that Sony does a piss poor job of promoting their PSN games and that MS does a much better job. I would agree mostly but honestly, even with the Summer of Arcade I didn't know anything about a single one of the game, except of course for Fruit Ninja which was a mobile game.

I still want o get Gatling Gears, Bastion, Warhammer and Crimson Alliance whenever that comes out.

I think that MS does a great job if you pay attention to them. They have previews of each the week that they're released and what not. I wouldn't really ever know what is even coming out on PSN if it wasn't for coming here.

To the point of multiplayer shit, it's fucking ridiculous. Warhammer is couch only, meanwhile Outcast and Castlevania are online only. I suppose I can at least understand why a game would be online only...couch only is baffling.
 
I finally checked out From Dust and ITSP yesterday. ITSP seems like a complete PixelJunk Shooter ripoff as I suspected. I also was not impressed at all with From Dust. I'm not much into those games anyway but I figured I'd try it, especially after Brad Shoemaker beamed about it on the latest Bombcast. He kept talking about how beautiful it was, blah blah blah. The game itself seemed cool but not something for me but I was not impressed with the graphics at all. I don't know if I was playing a different version or what. The water looked crappy. The shadows were subpar. Jaggies everywhere. Don't get me wrong, it was decent looking, but after listening to Shoemaker drone on and on I figured the game would look stunning.
 
I finally checked out From Dust and ITSP yesterday. ITSP seems like a complete PixelJunk Shooter ripoff as I suspected. I also was not impressed at all with From Dust. I'm not much into those games anyway but I figured I'd try it, especially after Brad Shoemaker beamed about it on the latest Bombcast. He kept talking about how beautiful it was, blah blah blah. The game itself seemed cool but not something for me but I was not impressed with the graphics at all. I don't know if I was playing a different version or what. The water looked crappy. The shadows were subpar. Jaggies everywhere. Don't get me wrong, it was decent looking, but after listening to Shoemaker drone on and on I figured the game would look stunning.

IDGAF about how pretty it looks, Barbady.

What's your impressions on the From Dust gameplay?
 
I finally checked out From Dust and ITSP yesterday. ITSP seems like a complete PixelJunk Shooter ripoff as I suspected. I also was not impressed at all with From Dust. I'm not much into those games anyway but I figured I'd try it, especially after Brad Shoemaker beamed about it on the latest Bombcast. He kept talking about how beautiful it was, blah blah blah. The game itself seemed cool but not something for me but I was not impressed with the graphics at all. I don't know if I was playing a different version or what. The water looked crappy. The shadows were subpar. Jaggies everywhere. Don't get me wrong, it was decent looking, but after listening to Shoemaker drone on and on I figured the game would look stunning.

I was under the impression that ITSP had been in development since like 2007. Also, it was an artistic dual stick shooter, but I don't even think if the development start date weren't true it would be a Pixeljunk ripoff. It's definitely a mash up of a lot of games, but I don't think that it blatantly rips off of any of them.
 
I was under the impression that ITSP had been in development since like 2007. Also, it was an artistic dual stick shooter, but I don't even think if the development start date weren't true it would be a Pixeljunk ripoff. It's definitely a mash up of a lot of games, but I don't think that it blatantly rips off of any of them.

Why in god's name would a simple downloadable game be in development for four years? But let's say it was. TWO versions of PJS shooter have come out in that time so it would be very easy for them to "borrow" elements from those games. I've played both PJS games and I've only played the demo of ITSP, but he similarities are uncanny. It still seems like a fun game. Just like Dante's Inferno was huge ripoff of GoW. I'd get it but it seems five dollars over priced.

As for From Dust, I stand by my opinions. For a downloadable game with as much recent hype as it has, I expected it to look a lot better. Better looks are much easier to pull off with top down or isometric games, and they just didn't so that as far as I'm concerned. For instance, the Tomb Raider game released LAST YEAR looks leagues better than FD.

As far as the gameplay, it seems really cool, but like I said, not for me. I'm not into RTS or 'God Games". It seems like a good mashup of a puzzle game, RTS, God game and a game like Lemmings.
 
Why does MS and Sony have to include ONE game in these summer bundles that I couldn't give two shits about? MS did it with Fruit Ninja (doubly stupid because you NEED a Kinect to play it) and Sony with Street Fighter. I'd probably be willing to buy all the games in the Summer of Arcade or the Sony PSN Play (or whatever it's called) if it weren't for those two games.
 
Why in god's name would a simple downloadable game be in development for four years? But let's say it was. TWO versions of PJS shooter have come out in that time so it would be very easy for them to "borrow" elements from those games. I've played both PJS games and I've only played the demo of ITSP, but he similarities are uncanny. It still seems like a fun game. Just like Dante's Inferno was huge ripoff of GoW. I'd get it but it seems five dollars over priced.

Well I've confirmed it and it has been in development since 2007. My guess would be largely due to the art. And I understand that they can "borrow" elements from other games, but since there is really no way of knowing I would pause before I would call it a ripoff of PJS. I'd say it's more of a ripoff of Castlevania/Metroid than that, personally.

As far as the price point, the multiplayer is fantastic and I think more than makes up for the somewhat easy singleplayer. I have a hard time determining between what is worth $10 and $15, but that has been a point of contention between you and I for long enough that there's no need to rehash it.
 
So you arcade vets, which should I get: Outland, Super Meat Boy, or Bastion? Also, are there any downloadable fighters that are solid for cheap besides Deadliest Warrior?
 
So you arcade vets, which should I get: Outland, Super Meat Boy, or Bastion? Also, are there any downloadable fighters that are solid for cheap besides Deadliest Warrior?

Super Meat Boy if you are into classic arcade style platforming games that require intense level memorization and deft agility. It's hard and it is supposed to be.

Bastion if you like Action RPGs with plenty of loot and New Game+.

No idea about Outland. Heard it's awesome though.
 
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