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That's my point, man. Eli does have those things. But we really should be more sophisticated in our analysis than that in terms of something like the hall of fame.
We can stop at "Eli made some clutch throws and had two great playoff runs. Nice player." We don't have to turn off our brains and stick him in the hall of fame with the greatest players ever. You can do great things without being a great player.
The Super Bowl has become the most overrated game in all of sports, we place way, way too much emphasis on what it takes to win that game and the forced legacy it creates for people.Comment
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I have to go. Woefully behind on work and NYE plans. I will leave you with this:
Scroll down (way down) for Hall of Famer Eli. Scan some of the names ahead of him.Comment
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but you cant take away playoff accomplishments either = case by case basis. the reason its waited so much is its harder to get there than any sports playoffs and harder to succeed in it. You get one game to prove yourself...not 7 games...it matters..it counts.
Bob Waterfield played 7 years and got in
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how the hell is that guy in the HOF?Comment
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Rookie of the year
League MVP
Multiple championships
Led the league in passing twice
1st or 2nd team All-NFL 5 times
Also was a good defensive back, the league's best punter, a kicker and ran the league's best offense for nearly a decade.
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"THAT GUY" is one of the greatest all around players in football history.
Played QB for a team that revolutionized offensive football and held scoring records that held up until the last decade or so, and was simultaneously the best kicker in the league, a very good punter, and a defensive back who had 20 career INT's.
Also a prime example of why normalizing stats is important, because his numbers are better within the context of his era than Eli's. His league leading 81.1 QB rating in 1951 for example was 30% higher than the league average, which at the time was around 64.0. Eli's career QB Rating is a nearly identical 81.2, in an era where the league average is 3% higher.
Waterfield's career QB rating of 61.1 is actually 8% higher than the league average of his day, so even though it's 20 points lower than Eli's career number, he was actually 11% better than Eli vs their own peers.Comment
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dam, that guy blows. no way should he be in the hall. and you guys are arguing about manning with a guy like that in the hall....lolComment
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Obvious schtick is obvious.Comment
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I bleed blue. I've been a Giants fan since before Lawrence Taylor took his first snort of cocaine.
And I'm here to tell you Eli is not a "shoe in playing with house money" when it comes to the HoF. Sure, he "might" get in, but it is no lock. And if it were up to me, he wouldn't, at least based on what he's done to this point.
Exhibit A:
(Advanced Stats in parenthesis where applicable)
Eli Manning
2 SB rings, 2 SB MVPs
Top 10 Pass TD: 7
Top 10 TD%: 5 (105)
Bottom 10 Int: 7
Top 10 Int%: 1 (93)
Top 10 Comp%: 1 (93)
Top 10 Pass Yds: 4
Top 10 Rating: 1 (97)
Top 10 Yds/Att: 4 (101)
Mystery QB:
2 SB rings, 1 SB MVP (DNP - injured in other SB, but set a still standing SB record in his MVP game)
Top 10 Pass TD: 6
Top 10 TD%: 5 (102)
Bottom 10 Int: 3
Top 10 Int%: 5 (109)
Top 10 Comp%: 3 (99)
Top 10 Pass Yds: 4
Top 10 Rating: 5 (105)
Top 10 Yds/Att: 7 (104)
The Mystery QB, who has a resume on par with Eli's is NOT in the HoF. His regular season work is better compared to his peers than Eli's. To give the rings thing some credence, I'll call it a wash based on the fact that The Mystery QB earned one of his rings while nursing an injury. Still, during that season TMQ started 14 games and was the 4th highest rated passer in the league. If you haven't figured out who this guy is click below...
Quick note with regard bringing up QBs from the past who supposedly threw tons of picks, especially if they played before the 1980s: This simply isn't the case for most of the guys mentioned in regards to the era they played in. In the case of Unitas, he consistently threw more TD's than picks (usually a lot more) at a time when the league as a whole was doing the exact opposite. For instance take 1959. He led the league in yards (2899) and threw 32 TD and 14 Int. Even by today's standards that's an enviable TD:Int Ratio, though the yardage seems a bit low. The league as a whole 197 TD and 221 picks, or 36 Int for every 32 TD. The only guys mentioned (I think) that really threw a lot of picks in comparison to his peers were Favre and Bradshaw. Favre took lots of heat for it. Not sure if Bradshaw ever did, but his 4 rings has obscured a lot of his flaws.Comment
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Maynard is about to crawl into a debate over a mid-century Rams player with Warner and jackson?
There's no schtick, he's full retard naturally.Comment
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Funny thing about the one SB Simms played in, it was against Elway. The Broncos D sucked balls. The only good thing that team had was Elway. Not exactly like facing the 18-0 Patriots was it? Den D was 15th that season, NWE was 4th, with a high powered offense behind it. I do agree that was a near perfect game for Simms, obviously. So I'm not taking anything away from him, it's just not a fair comparison of competition is it? I will say what significantly hurts Simms from ever getting in the HOF was Jeff Hostetler winning a SB in his place. This is a definite problem for Simms supporters.Last edited by Shayn•Da•Pain; 01-01-2014, 06:04 AM.sigpic
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this coming from the guy who still thinks we are debating the goat. i have never seen a person go that far to defend his position on a point that isnt being discussed.
i am hoping to see some more bob waterfield stats so we can be sure he is a HOFerComment
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i like how these QB threads always turn into Eli debates
cant escape the Elisha :elisha:Comment
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