The General Wrestling Thread

[s@ppisgod]

How much of Raw is dedicated to getting the hosses over? Swagger, who has hit a nice 2nd wind as of late, has a nice flurry of offense against Rusev and then just gets the shit kicked out of him for 5 minutes. Reigns emasculates Kane, and a vastly superior wrestler in Rollins. And Cena beats the entire Wyatt faction from pillar to post, to build him back up for Brock who is King Hoss right now. You shouldn't feed a very over Wyatt family to Cena. And what's the endgame with Swagger here? Just keep having Rusev beat him until there's no longer wind in his sails? I liked how Summerslam went, but it should have ended there. They keep featuring Rusev at the expense of Swagger, when a Jericho or RVD would work better in that capacity. But you can't get as many cheesy USA chants out of them. And the Bella garbage. And Cesaro, who they've put the screws to harder than Swagger, is getting very little crowd reaction anymore. Just a terrible Raw, top to bottom.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Swagger is more over now, getting the shit kicked out of him as the never-say-die American babyface, than he has ever been. Rusev v. Swagger has been done very well. The audience has taken very well to this basic feud and really, both guys have gotten over more as a result.

As for Cena...

He should run roughshod on EVERYBODY. EVERY.BODY. leading up to Night of Champions. Then Option A) get absolutely squashed...make it SummerSlam and Extreme Rules look child-like or B) lose in under a minute (fantasy booking: Have Cena rush in, GnP Brock, only for Brock to grab an arm, flip'em, and kimura, and "break his arm").

The goal is to make Brock THE attraction...THE GUY...if you're going to do it, go all of the way with it.

[s@ppisgod]

I liked the Swagger/Rusev match until the end. I think a pin would have worked better. Having Swagger, who has been on the short end of the entire feud, getting the shit kicked out of him for 5 minutes is too much IMO. The guy looks weak. Tough, but weak. When do they ever stop a match because a wrestler is getting beaten up SO badly that he can't defend himself? That sets the precedent that Swagger isn't a worthy opponent. It went on too long.

Cena doesn't need a total rebuild. There's nothing you can do to Cena to make him more of a contender in the fan's eyes in one month that he hasn't done 10 times already. You're talking about a guy that has been fed main eventer for the last 10 YEARS! Lesnar doesn't even get that rebuild. He beats Taker, sits at home for a few months, then beats Cena convincingly. Cena comes back, rededicated and runs through guys. Fine. But the WWE has this problem, and Warner has covered this before, where they feed multiple guys to one wrestler and make them seem 3rd rate. The Wyatts don't deserve that, and I don't even like Bray. Rollins doesn't deserve that. Kane, yeah, he probably deserves that. If you wanted to have Cena win a one-sided 6 minute TV match against Bray, fine. But him running roughshod through the 3 essentially by himself? They look like the Spirit Squad. Remember?

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I liked the Swagger/Rusev match until the end. I think a pin would have worked better. Having Swagger, who has been on the short end of the entire feud, getting the shit kicked out of him for 5 minutes is too much IMO. The guy looks weak. Tough, but weak. When do they ever stop a match because a wrestler is getting beaten up SO badly that he can't defend himself? That sets the precedent that Swagger isn't a worthy opponent. It went on too long.

Cena doesn't need a total rebuild. There's nothing you can do to Cena to make him more of a contender in the fan's eyes in one month that he hasn't done 10 times already. You're talking about a guy that has been fed main eventer for the last 10 YEARS! Lesnar doesn't even get that rebuild. He beats Taker, sits at home for a few months, then beats Cena convincingly. Cena comes back, rededicated and runs through guys. Fine. But the WWE has this problem, and Warner has covered this before, where they feed multiple guys to one wrestler and make them seem 3rd rate. The Wyatts don't deserve that, and I don't even like Bray. Rollins doesn't deserve that. Kane, yeah, he probably deserves that. If you wanted to have Cena win a one-sided 6 minute TV match against Bray, fine. But him running roughshod through the 3 essentially by himself? They look like the Spirit Squad. Remember?

It looks like the Wyatt gimmick is being moved down the card...perhaps to facilitate a breakup of the group...we don't know yet. But, going from Cena at Mania, to a trilogy of matches in Jericho's short run and a series of matches for the Tag Belts to being fed to Show/Henry is a big step back.

Cena is their top guy, and I have no problem with them putting some geeks in front of him to put down to give him a little credibility for Brock to eventually put him down an "even more motivated Cena" in brutal fashion.

I know the quick turn around to the re-match is going to be questioned, but Night of Champions is their "re-up" PPV for those with expiring 6-month subscriptions to the Network...so...they need to load the card. Cena-Lesnar is the biggest match they have right now (outside of say, a Taker rematch with Brock or Brock v Rock, etc), so I have no problem with it...the execution is most important.

This should be a big "blow off" pay per view, IMO. It probably won't be...but we SHOULD see some big payoff matches here. Cena-Lesnar (I would totally have Lesnar super squash him...either in a short time frame or have Lesnar throw him around like a rag doll with NO HOPE SPOTS), Ambrose-Rollins in a CAGE, Cesaro-Sheamus in a Big Hoss Challenge and given some time, Paige-AJ Lee given some TIME, Rusev-Swagger blowoff, then you can sprinkle in some shorter stuff like Nikki v. Brie (which should be five minutes), Usos v. DustBrothers (which should be a quick, well under 10m match). I'm sure they'll try and put some Orton and Jericho shit in there, too, which eats up someone else's time, but that is what I'd do in fantasy land.

There is your seven-ish card match, plus throw in a pre-show deal for the IC Title.

[Guest]

Great fantasy booking, but we know it won't happen.

I'm convinced after reading a report about mounting injuries for Cena that Lesnar is going to beat him so bad/break his arm and they send him off TV to recover. I think it's a great opportunity for guys to step up again, especially if they leave Cena off TV completely. Bring up some NXT talent to fill the void.

[Guest]

Someone is trying to tell me they truly think Danielson is a "B+ player" and is not entertained by him in the ring and does not see him as one of the best in the world

[s@ppisgod]

It looks like the Wyatt gimmick is being moved down the card...perhaps to facilitate a breakup of the group...we don't know yet. But, going from Cena at Mania, to a trilogy of matches in Jericho's short run and a series of matches for the Tag Belts to being fed to Show/Henry is a big step back.

Cena is their top guy, and I have no problem with them putting some geeks in front of him to put down to give him a little credibility for Brock to eventually put him down an "even more motivated Cena" in brutal fashion.

I know the quick turn around to the re-match is going to be questioned, but Night of Champions is their "re-up" PPV for those with expiring 6-month subscriptions to the Network...so...they need to load the card. Cena-Lesnar is the biggest match they have right now (outside of say, a Taker rematch with Brock or Brock v Rock, etc), so I have no problem with it...the execution is most important.

This should be a big "blow off" pay per view, IMO. It probably won't be...but we SHOULD see some big payoff matches here. Cena-Lesnar (I would totally have Lesnar super squash him...either in a short time frame or have Lesnar throw him around like a rag doll with NO HOPE SPOTS), Ambrose-Rollins in a CAGE, Cesaro-Sheamus in a Big Hoss Challenge and given some time, Paige-AJ Lee given some TIME, Rusev-Swagger blowoff, then you can sprinkle in some shorter stuff like Nikki v. Brie (which should be five minutes), Usos v. DustBrothers (which should be a quick, well under 10m match). I'm sure they'll try and put some Orton and Jericho shit in there, too, which eats up someone else's time, but that is what I'd do in fantasy land.

There is your seven-ish card match, plus throw in a pre-show deal for the IC Title.

Yes, the Wyatts are hitting the point that The Shield was hitting. Creative has run out of ideas for them. The Jericho program was ok, served a purpose, but it's just the type of mundane stuff that will slow their momentum down. Bray was a pet project for someone, likely Trips. And I would guess he got tired of Bray. Because he's still over, he's still viewed by fans as a big deal, he still has the best entrance in wrestling in years. And they're consciously throwing that away, much like they did with Cesaro.

I get the importance of NOC, but I think the story has been told already. It's a 2nd rate PPV in nearly every fans' eyes. There will be a lot of customers who don't re-up. The overwhelming majority of the fans know Lesnar walks out champ. The burial of the entire Wyatt faction wasn't necessary. You could have just as easily had another squash match, and the fans would look at Cena EXACTLY the same. It doesn't serve a purpose.

[s@ppisgod]

Someone is trying to tell me they truly think Danielson is a "B+ player" and is not entertained by him in the ring and does not see him as one of the best in the world

Danielson is a lot like Styles. He may be getting by on reputation a little at this point, but it's still understood based on his body of work and what we know he's capable of, that he's one of the very best in the world. It shouldn't even be debatable at this point.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Yes, the Wyatts are hitting the point that The Shield was hitting. Creative has run out of ideas for them. The Jericho program was ok, served a purpose, but it's just the type of mundane stuff that will slow their momentum down. Bray was a pet project for someone, likely Trips. And I would guess he got tired of Bray. Because he's still over, he's still viewed by fans as a big deal, he still has the best entrance in wrestling in years. And they're consciously throwing that away, much like they did with Cesaro.

I get the importance of NOC, but I think the story has been told already. It's a 2nd rate PPV in nearly every fans' eyes. There will be a lot of customers who don't re-up. The overwhelming majority of the fans know Lesnar walks out champ. The burial of the entire Wyatt faction wasn't necessary. You could have just as easily had another squash match, and the fans would look at Cena EXACTLY the same. It doesn't serve a purpose.

I can kind of see why they do the shit they do with Cesaro. He truly is the type of guy you can flick the switch on at any time and push'em. His work rate will always be there. He is never really going to change up his gimmick too much. He's such a good talent, you can have him hang out in the mid-card and he'll always be there.

[s@ppisgod]

People like Cesaro, but I don't think he's a home run with audiences. I think he's like Dolph or Barrett. Liked, but not an instant star whenever they want him to be. And I love Dolph, but you put him in the main event and plenty of people aren't buying it. They have to be handled right, like is true for most of the roster. Cesaro had everything going for him, and they slammed on the brakes even though all he was at that point was upper card. He wasn't threatening the position of a Lesnar or Cena or Reigns or Ambrose. It was kinda pointless IMO.

[Guest]

Danielson is a lot like Styles. He may be getting by on reputation a little at this point, but it's still understood based on his body of work and what we know he's capable of, that he's one of the very best in the world. It shouldn't even be debatable at this point.

Except this guy is off the wagon.........you be the judge. I asked for a top five list of wrestlers based off technical ability, and here is what I got

What does a top 5 technical wrestler list have to do with who entertains me and who doesn't though? I want the Champion to be entertaining and DB just doesn't do it for me. I know wrestling is fake but I want to atleast be able to say well maybe so and so could actually beat so and so and there is no way in hell that DB is beating half the roster. It just realistically wouldn't happen

[s@ppisgod]

Pretty sure you're just arguing with dave on another board....

[dave]

Pretty sure you're just arguing with dave on another board....

I don't discuss wrestling on another board, so it's a fake Dave.

[Guest]

Pretty sure you're just arguing with dave on another board....

No, I get much better arguments out of Dave than this guy.

[EmpireWF]

hey Larry, this is Rocky's ex-wife/current business manager, right?