40 years from now...

[relaxedanderson]

You have mentioned it multiple times, but other than that, the most underground music head I've ever seen (whom I've never seen mention listening to any Hip Hop/Rap) is the only other person in this thread who said that.

But that's the point he's making; transcending your own bubble and being widely known by people who have no interest in your music.

I could sit here and reel off plenty of songs by a band like Abba, and I fucking hate Abba with a passion. Same goes for acts like the Bee Gees, U2 and Madonna; I would love to not know any of their music but its ingrained from a time when you didn't have a hell of a lot of choice of listening material. I still couldn't name a Kanye West song though.

 

[Pitty]

But that's the point he's making; transcending your own bubble and being widely known by people who have no interest in your music.

I could sit here and reel off plenty of songs by a band like Abba, and I fucking hate Abba with a passion. Same goes for acts like the Bee Gees, U2 and Madonna; I would love to not know any of their music but its ingrained from a time when you didn't have a hell of a lot of choice of listening material. I still couldn't name a Kanye West song though.

Again, Kanye West has been around for 7 years, after you're 30+ years old. All of those bands have 10+ albums, Greatest Hits, etc. etc. I'm basing my argument partially on hypothetical, but Kanye West's success up to this point (an artist with all top debuting Billboard albums, sans his debut, and over a dozen top 10 hits only 7 years into his career) shows nothing to indicate he won't have a lasting legacy 40 years down the road.

For example, I fucking hate Britney Spears, NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys, but I know who they are because I was 7-13 when they were popular (pop music tends to be more well known by people who grew up with it generationally), just as I'm sure you listened to a lot of bad popular music when you were a kid.

You don't think kids today know Kanye West's hits? It's all relative, and to make a further point, since you two seem to place an important emphasis on an artist's "hits". Kanye West has 14 top 10 Billboard hits, Britney Spears, 13.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not putting an emphasis on hits, you are.

None of those Kanye statistics mean anything in terms of lasting popularity. I contend he's making fad music that doesn't extend beyond fans of his genre. Spears made fad music that did. She was a cultural icon before she went down the trailor trash road. West never was, and for cultural reasons already explained, I don't think he ever will be. The way we consume music now, people aren't force fed what they don't like. It hurts the lasting impact of pop stars like West.

 

[Pitty]

I'm not putting an emphasis on hits, you are.

None of those Kanye statistics mean anything in terms of lasting popularity. I contend he's making fad music that doesn't extend beyond fans of his genre. Spears made fad music that did. She was a cultural icon before she went down the trailor trash road. West never was, and for cultural reasons already explained, I don't think he ever will be.

You explained that? All I've seen is you repeating the word 'bubble', which provides no evidence to substantiate this mouth diarrhea. How about when Kanye went on national television and criticized the President, and the subsequent months of uproar? Or when he hopped on stage and stole an award, causing months of uproar? Or how about when Kanye West was the sole joke of South Park, which is still quoted by morons a full two years later?

Remember when you said this?

Pop, and the most commercially successful genre today, rap/hip hop, is full of "here today, gone tommorow" drivel that people were embarrassed to admit they liked 6 months ago, let alone 40 years from now.

How then, does a Hip Hop artist manage to dominate the POP CHARTS for years? It's because your bubble argument is idiotic. In fact I think the most hilarious part in all of this is that you think music has no legacy today when it is made production-line style, while it was people like Britney fucking Spears who started it. Not many of Kanye's productions can be categorized as cookie cutter, in fact he's seen by many as a crossover genius combining hip hop with the genres it's never touched before.

 

[relaxedanderson]

Again, Kanye West has been around for 7 years, after you're 30+ years old. All of those bands have 10+ albums, Greatest Hits, etc. etc. I'm basing my argument partially on hypothetical, but Kanye West's success up to this point (an artist with all top debuting Billboard albums, sans his debut, and over a dozen top 10 hits only 7 years into his career) shows nothing to indicate he won't have a lasting legacy 40 years down the road.

Fair enough, but I could also say that back in 1996 I knew just about every song that Oasis had recorded up to that point and I would have sold my nipples to have an opportunity to wipe them from my brain.

For example, I fucking hate Britney Spears, NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys, but I know who they are because I was 7-13 when they were popular (pop music tends to be more well known by people who grew up with it generationally), just as I'm sure you listened to a lot of bad popular music when you were a kid.

You don't think kids today know Kanye West's hits? It's all relative, and to make a further point, since you two seem to place an important emphasis on an artist's "hits". Kanye West has 14 top 10 Billboard hits, Britney Spears, 13.

Ok, so relatively new artist at the peak of his career...which means he still has to go through this scenario http://www.virtualsportsdaily.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1770479&postcount=45

Popular music history is littered with people who were the business at the time but who are now permanent figures of fun. Whether his music stands the test of time is yet to be seen but I will say that his constant acting like a twat isn't going to serve him very well when he is about as fashionable as a tight perm and leg-warmers.

 

[Pitty]

Fair enough, but I could also say that back in 1996 I knew just about every song that Oasis had recorded up to that point and I would have sold my nipples to have an opportunity to wipe them from my brain.



Ok, so relatively new artist at the peak of his career...which means he still has to go through this scenario http://www.virtualsportsdaily.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1770479&postcount=45

Popular music history is littered with people who were the business at the time but who are now permanent figures of fun. Whether his music stands the test of time is yet to be seen but I will say that his constant acting like a twat isn't going to serve him very well when he is about as fashionable as a tight perm and leg-warmers.

I'll let that slide considering you have stated you don't know Kanye West, but you need to research the period surrounding his album 808's and Heartbreaks. Kanye West has experienced a rapid rise in popularity and the backlash that ensues. There was a time when everyone saw him solely as the douche who had fallen off talent-wise. That was until his last album, which is almost surely going to sweep the major music awards come fall. He went Brian Wilson for almost two years, and now he's at the top of the music world, yet again.

EDIT - In terms of album sales and critical acclaim, the only way I can judge music in the present.

 

[Irish]

Right now I am completely on the fence about both sides of the argument.

On W2BTDs side, I can completely understand that he does not believe Kanye will be transcendent through time. For people that want to avoid him, in this time period that is completely an option, making him irrelevant moving forward. To people who aren't hip hop heads or music heads period past the age of 30, probably have no remembrance of Kanye for his music, maybe 1 or 2 songs, but probably remember him for his antics alone. So why would his music be remembered 40 years from now as a icon if they can not remember anything now?

And on Pitty's side, I know that while Kanye probably doesn't transcend past the demo of 26ish, that his influence on the younger generation is huge. You can just tell by looking through my facebook status's and all the high school kids or college kids that could probably name you every album he has. And most of these kids are fucking retards about music and go to Jason Aldean concerts. And 40 years from now when we as 20 year olds have kids and share our music with them, like Heelswxman listened to the Smiths from his mother's albums, we will most likely remember Kanye because he was huge for us. Therefore making his music last.

But then again music is so spread out now (like it has been said) that in 40 years from now, everything might be so fucking diluted, that kids won't care about old stuff, and even if they do it might be a small group that has no impact.

 

[Irish]

And I am also sure that Heelswxman found plenty of albums from his mother that fucking sucked. I know my parents love the Eagles, and them listening to those albums for the 20 years I have been alive has killed any chance of me listening to it as a non bias listener. And Kanye has pretty "unique" (use that liberally) music, that maybe the next couple generations will hate it and it will not carry on passed our generation.

 

[Pitty]

This thread reminds me of when Arcade Fire won a Grammy for album of the year, and the majority of America went, "Who the fuck are they?"

Look, Kanye is big in his musical genre, but don't confuse his ability to get his name in the news for being a douche with his ability to leave a lasting impression via his music.

He might be a huge douche, and you might hate hip hop, but don't deny it's still a revolutionary musical form. And whether anyone likes it or not, it's the rock/disco/insert whatever popular developing genre you want of the current age. Hip Hop has been evolving for 3 decades, and Kanye has revolutionized the genre in the same vein as groups like Zeppelin, incorporating styles that created an entirely new conception of popular music.

Seriously Heels, how many other Hip Hop artists could pull of a collaboration with Bon Iver? Even if Grammy's aren't what they once were, there's a reason why Kanye West is nominated for Album of the Year each time he puts out a production, and there's artists like Britney Spears who couldn't dream of a being given one.

 

[Pitty]

Hmmm lets see...

Peter Frampton
the Eagles
Foreigner
Cheap Trick
Genesis/Phil Collins

all sucked, and I roll my fucking eyes every time I hear them.

She did introduce me to...

the Smiths
the Police/Sting
Talking Heads
Duran Duran (they're great pop music!)
and a slew of 80's bands that I still listen to today

It is strange to see your parents' vinyl isn't it? With Houses of the Holy or Led Zeppelin IV side by side with Dexy's Midnight Runners.

 

[Pitty]

So I just listened to this Kanye West song you're talking about and if that's revolutionary, then the music industry is fucked. That was garbage.

People, stop fucking using autotune for everything.

The song in and of itself isn't revolutionary, however, a cross-over collaboration between these two would be impossible had it not been for Kanye West. Would you rather have the Jay-Z and Linkin Park team-ups of the past?

 

[Pitty]

I can still remember talking to my parents about music and my mom telling me that she saw Alice Cooper in concert, then my dad drops the "I saw Black Sabbath" bomb. I shit my pants.

I can't wait to tell my kids, "hey your mom and I saw Vampire Weekend like 4 times in concert." They'll think "How lame"

That's when you force a nice long listening session on them. I plan to do it when I mention the Sufjan Stevens concert I went to and they reply with, "the fag who dressed like a butterfly?".

 

[Pitty]

That's not the point. Simply crossing over isn't revolutionary. It's having the ability to do it well.

Even if you call that song shit, it's 50 steps above Numb/Encore.

 

[Pitty]

What? No love for Danger Mouse?

I have much love, he just doesn't bring much to the table lyrically. Mouse and the Mask is one of my all time favorite albums.

 

[Pitty]

I just think he's one who can cross over between the hip hop/indie scene better than Kanye.

He's provided a instrumental basis, and made some great productions, but he can never cross into the mainstream the same way collaborations with West can. You can also look at producers like Diplo and RJD2 as others that I would like to expand into indie more, but Kanye can provide that mainstream crossover that DM and others have lacked to this point.

 

[relaxedanderson]

People, stop fucking using autotune.

Fixed.

I detest that piece of shit software. The amount of kids I have coming to me who think they can just mumble monotone into a microphone and then have me autotune it so they sound like Christina Aguilera is soul destroying.

No, if you want to be a singer you get in there and you sing the fucking song. I'll give you a nice mic, I'll get you a vocal coach if you need one or I'll help you rearrange a song if you're struggling with it but the only notes that are going down on tape are ones that you've actually sung not ones that I've fucking dragged and dropped into place.

Don't 10 year olds cry easily these days?

 

[Houston]

I couldn't name one song by any of the artists in this post.

I'm not even sure where you live at so I can't speak on these artist popularity in your country. But in America if you can't name 1 song by Taylor Swift, Beyonce, or Jay-Z you're in the minority.

Jay-Z has what...11 #1 albums?

Beyonce was in one of the biggest female groups of all time.

Within one year Taylor Swift won album of the year, sold 1 million copies in a week, and reached 20 million album sales in this digital music era.


I'm not saying you should like these artist, but if you can't name 1 song by them that's not a reflection on how big or small they are. That's just a reflection on what you pay attention to.

 

[Houston]

Isnt it funny how Spears hasnt had a hit record in god knows how long, yet is still ridiculously famous and identifiable today?

If Kanye West disappeared tommorow, who would be able to idnetify him in a decade? As I said earlier, i'm fairly certain most people woildnt know him if he knocked on the front door.

Well like Relaxed said earlier(and you agreed to), with time all the insignificant things surrounding an artist will disappear and they'll only have their music


Kanye is looked at as a serious hip hop artist. So 10 years from now my sons(assuming they like hip hop) will discover and explore Kanye's music. Just like hip hop fans of my age went back and listened to Tupac and Biggie even though we were too young to really remember them.
Also in the same way that "true artist" like Tupac appeal to people who are mainly fans of other genres, Kanye will do the same which will attract a more broader audience in the future when he's done.

Brittney Spears on the other hand is a silly pop star. Once she's done nobody will care about her music. There was a time when MC Hammer was bigger then N.W.A, but how many people today go back and check out his catalogue over N.W.A's? Yeah N'sync was huge, but how many young pop fans are going back and downloading their albums?

Kanye is an artist that speaks the truth, and that will never be "here today, gone tomorrow".

20 years from now people will be able to feel the emotion from this song as strong as people can now.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZOy6t1vVtE[/ame]


Who the hell will care about "Oops I did it again" 20 years from now?

 

[Realist]

Well like Relaxed said earlier(and you agreed to), with time all the insignificant things surrounding an artist will disappear and they'll only have their music


Kanye is looked at as a serious hip hop artist. So 10 years from now my sons(assuming they like hip hop) will discover and explore Kanye's music. Just like hip hop fans of my age went back and listened to Tupac and Biggie even though we were too young to really remember them.
Also in the same way that "true artist" like Tupac appeal to people who are mainly fans of other genres, Kanye will do the same which will attract a more broader audience in the future when he's done.

Brittney Spears on the other hand is a silly pop star. Once she's done nobody will care about her music. There was a time when MC Hammer was bigger then N.W.A, but how many people today go back and check out his catalogue over N.W.A's? Yeah N'sync was huge, but how many young pop fans are going back and downloading their albums?

Kanye is an artist that speaks the truth, and that will never be "here today, gone tomorrow".

20 years from now people will be able to feel the emotion from this song as strong as people can now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZOy6t1vVtE


Who the hell will care about "Oops I did it again" 20 years from now?

The thing is, some people dont know a thing about Kanye outside of what they hear on the radio so they wont appreciate him as much. They think what they hear on the radio is what his whole album is about

That reminds me of (kinda OT) when Andre3000 came out with Hey Ya, people weren't aware that Outkast was a 2 person group and was surprised when they listened to his (their) non-mainstream songs

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

20 years from now people will be able to feel the emotion from this song as strong as people can now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZOy6t1vVtE


Who the hell will care about "Oops I did it again" 20 years from now?

Yes, people who are already fans of West will still be enjoying his music 2 years from now. I'm not denying that.

But, "Oops I did it again" is easily more recognizable to more people than whatever that abomination is that you just posted, and I can assure you, that it will remain that way 20 years from now.