An Elite QB explains what an elite QB is on Twitter

[Aso]

What about backups who win the superbowl? Like Brady's first one for instance. Bledsoe lead them through the entire season and the start of the playoffs. Brady essentially played 5qtrs. Are they both elite? Is only Brady? If so why not Bledsoe? He lead them there

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Wait when did Brady play 5 quarters? I don't understand? It's more like Bledsoe played maybe between 6 and 8 quarters. I think your memory might be a little fuzzy. Brady started 14 games.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00/gamelog/2001/

 

[Loco]

no you stupid f----

I get he aint no Joe Montana. But for you fat dumb internet dweebs to be saying it aint about nothin' when a NFL QB plays a full season and leads..yes I said leads because he is the QB it is the offense and no defense ever scored enough to win anything...his team to a Super Bowl and wins it. Its a great accomplishment. You are elite no matter what because you played a major part in doing it. Marino had great stats and is elite but its all relative in the end And Dilfer did his job and got a ring. And you cant make some lame anyone can do it argument. He is in elite company whether for one day or 10 years, no matter how you dumb sports loving dweebs want to slice it.

..and again, the threads about Flacco you...you..you...what the hell are those furry things with mouths above my post ?

U BLACK BRO?

 

[ram29jackson]

Okay, since everyone took that out of context...

I'm not saying every quarterback who has good things around him are mediocre. I'm saying that even though he was surrounded with one of the best dynasties ever around him, he still put up mediocre numbers. Look at Troy Aikman's passer rating in all of his superbowls and passer rating in general. The idea of getting that low of a passer rating with that team is absurd, never mind having lower passer ratings in your superbowls than Rex Grossman.

Let's compare Brad Johnson, an injury riddled nomadic qb, and Troy Aikman, a QB who had all he could ask for:

what you may fail to realize is..maybe his numbers arent that big because odds are they were on the short side of the 50 yrd line most of the time. Again, most things are relative

 

[Aso]

what you may fail to realize is..maybe his numbers arent that big because odds are they were on the short side of the 50 yrd line most of the time. Again, most things are relative

Sounds like a bit of a reach.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

what you may fail to realize is..maybe his numbers arent that big because odds are they were on the short side of the 50 yrd line most of the time. Again, most things are relative

Support this ridiculous claim with a statistic.

 

[ram29jackson]

Support this ridiculous claim with a statistic.

simple math..more often then not the better teams dont have to have long drives. Its common football knowledge. Obviously his numbers never had to be that big because they had a more successful running game as well. A successful smart QB doesnt need to throw passes all the time. He needs to kbow when and where a run play is best and Troy obviously had what he needed around him. That doesnt detrct from his brilliant decisions and successful throws when needed....redundant,redundant,redundant

 

[Rip]

With a dynasty team he put up mediocre numbers. A real elite quarterback can and/or will put up great stats with mediocre teams. Dan Marino throwing for 5k and getting 48 touchdowns during his era and with his team is amazing, let alone the stats he put up in general. Fran Tarkenton going to that many superbowls with a expansion team, becoming the first "iron-man" qb and scrambling QB and putting up unheard stats is elite. These two didn't win the big one, but they're both top of the top. Take away Aikman's dynasty team and his stats would be even more abysmal.

Now before you go "Well rip, you inferior faggot, Brady has a dynasty around him and so did x, y, and z." Yeah, what's the difference? He put up good numbers with the dynasty and put up numbers in several systems. He doesn't give us a reason to think he could possibly be bad elsewhere, that's speaking empirically here. Troy Aikmen shows us every reason why he was carried by his dynasty. There's a difference when a QB has good stats with a great team and a qb has "meh" stats with a great team.

inb4 Derrville groan.

 

[Rip]

Also look back at Brad Johnson's and Aikmen's stats. Johnson has 500 less attempts and 40 less games played while putting up the same numbers. If Brad Johnson did this as a nomad on teams not even half the caliber of the Cowboys then imagine him with the 90s Cowboys. You wouldn't say Johnson is elite, would you?

 

[Saluki]

IMO if you can't look at them and say they either are on their way to, or had a career good enough for the hall of fame, then they aren't elite to me.

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[Warner2BruceTD]

Also look back at Brad Johnson's and Aikmen's stats. Johnson has 500 less attempts and 40 less games played while putting up the same numbers. If Brad Johnson did this as a nomad on teams not even half the caliber of the Cowboys then imagine him with the 90s Cowboys. You wouldn't say Johnson is elite, would you?

Actually, r29j would call Johnson elite, because he won a SB.

And he did it all by himself. You know, when I think of the Bucs from that era, I automatically think of Brad Johnson.

 

[dboy_dc]

So now what's the argument? Are yall going totally based on numbers? Because if so, consider that this is a passing league now where every team is basically throwing the ball more than running. Hell even the Steelers look like they're less dependent on their run game.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

So now what's the argument? Are yall going totally based on numbers? Because if so, consider that this is a passing league now where every team is basically throwing the ball more than running. Hell even the Steelers look like they're less dependent on their run game.

There is no set, singular argument.

In football, you have to look at the entire picture because statictics can be deceiving. And there are some teams that would never succeed without the right QB (for example, Cardinals without Kurt Warner, and to a lesser extent, Rams without Warner), and other teams that would have succeeded with just about any competent QB (2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs).

Somebody like Warner was obvoiusly an elite QB, because largely based on his play, he carried two dead franchises to Super Bowls, and both franchises were dead again with a couple of years after he left. It would be impossible to argue he didn't make a gigantic difference on those SB teams he played for.

The Bucs nearly went to the Super Bowl with the same primary cast of characters a couple of season before Brad Johnson, with Shaun King. SHAUN KING!

The Ravens, obviously, have been a dominant team for the better part of a decade because of their defense. Trent Dilfer had little to nothing to do with that SB win. He didn't even start half the games, ffs. He lost the starting job in a camp battle to TONY BANKS.

Nobody who ever saw Trent Dilfer play would ever call him elite based on his skills, production, or ability to carry a team. It requires only lazy, surface level thinking to conclude a QB is elite based on winning a SB. We've seen mediocre, even below average QB's play for SB winners, and we've seen guys have terrible games and still win.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

lol At Aikman overrated.

The guy was the most accurate passer you've ever seen and arguably the quickest release you've ever seen. Marino and Warner are the only guys in that discussion.
He was considered the physical/mental prototype at QB and played as such.

Irvin is overrated, Emmitt was a product of his system, and Aikman was a product of all the talent around him. So essentially noone was actually responsible for that offense being so dominant. It was just some weird happenstance. That everytime they drove someone was scoring.

Johnson 7 playoff games = QB ratings 62,50,60,37,77,83,80
Aikmans first 7 playoff games= QB ratings 63,112,120,140,104,144
The comp% are astronomical for Aikman going over 75% twice and over 70% in nearly every game.

Montana , Aikman , Warner. For whatever absurd reason those guys were nearly unstoppable in the playoffs. All those guys simply outplayed everyone on the opposite side of field when the games were win or go home. I really dont care what random profootball outsider observation or stupid analysis of there surrounding talent.
All those guys have been accused of being overrated all those guys are nothing but winners.

At some point you have to quit being a numbnuts and watch people play. At least have some sense of history before making retarded claims.

Lets magically make them both 21 again today. And lets see which player 32 teams will draft first Brad Johnson or Troy Aikman.


Next up ! Vinny Testaverde vs John Elway !!

 

[Rip]

Oh look, someone took the comparison of Troy Aikmen and Brad Johnson out of context and thought that I thought they were equals.

The point behind it all was Brad Johnson, someone who isn't elite, won a superbowl and put up similar numbers to Aikmen while being a nomadic QB. Had he been a part of that dynasty then who knows how much better his stats would be, unless you're implying his stats would be just as good as a nomad instead of being behind the second best offensive line of all time, the leading rusher of all time, a fantastic fullback, a fantastic tight end, and the doomsday defense.

 

[ram29jackson]

There is no set, singular argument.

In football, you have to look at the entire picture because statictics can be deceiving. And there are some teams that would never succeed without the right QB (for example, Cardinals without Kurt Warner, and to a lesser extent, Rams without Warner), and other teams that would have succeeded with just about any competent QB (2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs).

Somebody like Warner was obvoiusly an elite QB, because largely based on his play, he carried two dead franchises to Super Bowls, and both franchises were dead again with a couple of years after he left. It would be impossible to argue he didn't make a gigantic difference on those SB teams he played for.

The Bucs nearly went to the Super Bowl with the same primary cast of characters a couple of season before Brad Johnson, with Shaun King. SHAUN KING!

The Ravens, obviously, have been a dominant team for the better part of a decade because of their defense. Trent Dilfer had little to nothing to do with that SB win. He didn't even start half the games, ffs. He lost the starting job in a camp battle to TONY BANKS.

Nobody who ever saw Trent Dilfer play would ever call him elite based on his skills, production, or ability to carry a team. It requires only lazy, surface level thinking to conclude a QB is elite based on winning a SB. We've seen mediocre, even below average QB's play for SB winners, and we've seen guys have terrible games and still win.

if you are playing on a Super Bowl contending team , you are not mediocre or below average. Seriously, no body knows shit fIrst hand here what it takes to QB in the NFL. You just know who has better stats and think you're an expert because of it LOL...I already explained it twice, You're simpletons if you dont get it by know.

Trent Dilfer had little or nothing to do with their winning ? LO fucking LOL he makes audibles, hot reads, he makes decisions, the ball doesnt get to Sharpe except through his hands first. No defense has outscored any offense in the history of the league.

....and started starting in game 5, not game 8 half way through the season. If he were not good like you say, that would mean he was Tony Banks and they didnt win. But he replaced Tony Banks and they started winning...pretty simple math isnt it

In football, you have to look at the entire picture because statictics can be deceiving.

interesting , considering they still seem to deceive you.

 

[ram29jackson]

Oh look, someone took the comparison of Troy Aikmen and Brad Johnson out of context and thought that I thought they were equals.

The point behind it all was Brad Johnson, someone who isn't elite, won a superbowl and put up similar numbers to Aikmen while being a nomadic QB. Had he been a part of that dynasty then who knows how much better his stats would be, unless you're implying his stats would be just as good as a nomad instead of being behind the second best offensive line of all time, the leading rusher of all time, a fantastic fullback, a fantastic tight end, and the doomsday defense.

what it says to me is QB is obviously a very hard position to play and having not so great numbers year to year doesnt mean you dont play your position well.

Put Marino on Dallas and of course it would take a huge chunk of his passing yards away because of course he wouldnt need to throw that much.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

if you are playing on a Super Bowl contending team , you are not mediocre or below average. Seriously, no body knows shit fIrst hand here what it takes to QB in the NFL. You just know who has better stats and think you're an expert because of it LOL...I already explained it twice, You're simpletons if you dont get it by know.

Trent Dilfer had little or nothing to do with their winning ? LO fucking LOL he makes audibles, hot reads, he makes decisions, the ball doesnt get to Sharpe except through his hands first. No defense has outscored any offense in the history of the league.

....and started starting in game 5, not game 8 half way through the season. If he were not good like you say, that would mean he was Tony Banks and they didnt win. But he replaced Tony Banks and they started winning...pretty simple math isnt it



interesting , considering they still seem to deceive you.

Tony Banks started the first 8 games for the 2000 Ravens. You are wrong.

After a half dozen or so years of poor play, Trent Dilfer lost his starting job in TB in 1999 to Shaun King. For the final seven years of his career, for four different teams, he was never able to win a starting job outright. He would either lose a camp battle (BAL), lose his job outright due to poor play (CLE), or be signed specifically to be a placeholder/backup (SEA, SF).

Please explain to me, how this "elite QB", not only was let go by Baltimore a few weeks after the SB, but also never managed to hold down a starting job ever again in his life? Why would a SB winning team cast aside an "elite QB"? For ELVIS GRBAC, or all people? Even off the SB win, the best job Dilfer was able to get was a 'keep the seat warm" spot in Seattle as they developed Hasselbeck. Show me another ELITE QB, coming off a SB win, who was immediately tossed aside by his team and had trouble finding a job. I'll wait.

Elite QB's are the rarest commodity in the game, when teams have one, they do everything in their power to keep them for as long as they can. Trent Dilfer got passed around like a prostitute for half of his career, including by the team he won the SB with. If Dilfer was elite, WHY DID BALTIMORE IMMEDIATELY REPLACE HIM?

Dilfer is not elite, never was elite, please stop, you are embarrasing yourself. But since you completely lack any self awareness, probably not.

 

[Rip]

Oh...my head.

Just because a QB is on a playoff contending team doesn't mean they are elite. You're throwing elite around too freely. It means best of the best. It means even if they're on a mediocre team they'd put up good stats and without them the franchise wouldn't or shouldn't do as well as W2B said.

Also...what? The logic behind Marino throwing for less on the Cowboys is pretty baseless, don't you think? By that logic Brady should have passed for less yards and touchdowns in 2007 than 2004 as he got a better line and targets. By that logic Manning should have had better stats in 08/09 than 04. By that logic Elway should have done better without Davis and Sharpe. You get the point.

Elway did work on his team without the targets and eventually won when he got them. Brady did work with no name receivers and played the west coast offense better than anyone not named Joe Montana. The list goes on with Warren Moon, Tarkenton, Warner, Manning and many others. They have all given me reason that they would do well elsewhere. Aikmen does not give me that impression.

 

[dboy_dc]

Some systems just work...
For example: NE offensive line made their back ups look awesome
GB: Look at what Flynn was able to do
Texans: made a playoff run with their 3rd string QB and his name wasn't Willie Beamen
Cards/hawks: Currently is dependent on a power run game with intermediate passes.. damn near anybody could manage that offense
Ravens: haven't changed

To me an elite QB does more than manage the game. The ultimately make the difference. Fortunately enough Dallas 3 stars went to the HoF so Jimmy Johnson had the perfect formula to make them work. After he left they already had their game play down and kept it up.

But honestly Brady is an above average QB but judging from his O-Line where other QB's has been successful I'd say 10 of 10 times that Peyton is better. Peyton is elite. For the sake that I am a Cowboys fan I see no benefit for me naming my QB (imo he's not elite) but looking at the league now in 2012 the only standing elite QB is Peyton. The last elite QB to be in the league was Warner.

 

[Cornelius]

lol@the butthurt cowboy fans in this thread.