Brady sucks now

[bucky]

My point was to explain why people are moronically throwing around a label, not to label anyone, because I didn't. The examples given are irrelevant.

And yet your examples were bias pro Brady and anti Manning. And then a few posts later you repeated how horrible Manning was on THAT ONE THROW. I would have left your post alone if you would have also added a Manning Clutch and Brady Choke example. That would truly have been emphasizing "not throwing around a label". Showing players will both choke and be clutch.

 

[killgod]

And yet your examples were bias pro Brady and anti Manning. And then a few posts later you repeated how horrible Manning was on THAT ONE THROW. I would have left your post alone if you would have also added a Manning Clutch and Brady Choke example. That would truly have been emphasizing "not throwing around a label". Showing players will both choke and be clutch.

My point was to explain why people are moronically throwing around a label, not to label anyone, because I didn't. The examples given are irrelevant.

 

[Liquidrob]

The Patriots are a normal team now? Cause a normal team has perfect regular seasons, pass records broken, a couple conference championships, endless division titles?

This is normal? For who?



I'm not labelling anyone here, but you cannot look at the singular play and say that wasn't absolutely terrible on Manning's part.

A normal team in the playoffs pretty much like the rest of the league, obviously they are still a top nfl team, they just are not unbeatable in the playoffs like they were when they were cheating and the record proves it

 

[Liquidrob]

I love how fans just dismiss there cheating like it didn't mean anything, lol, they were just doing it for fun, had no impact on anything, yeah right

Go look at there record when they play teams a second time during spygate, look at it afterwards, looks at there playoff record, look at it afterwards, yeah, no biggie

 

[bucky]

My point was to explain why people are moronically throwing around a label, not to label anyone, because I didn't. The examples given are irrelevant.

When trying to make a point, examples are relevant. And why are you getting all flustered over all the Spygate stuff in this thread? Just ignore it.

 

[killgod]

I'll let you guys carry on this terrible attempt at discussion.

 

[Senser81]

I'll let you guys carry on this terrible attempt at discussion.

My god...you choked in this thread...big time. Hard to continue posting with both hands around your throat.

 

[killgod]

My god...you choked in this thread...big time. Hard to continue posting with both hands around your throat.

Between bucky being dense about examples, rob and rams trolling, I got triple teamed like some cheap whore. I concede and will return to avoiding this section like the plague.

 

[bucky]

Between bucky being dense about examples

Please, your examples were biased. The biased examples take away from the point you were trying to make. I just pointed that out.

, rob and rams trolling. I concede and will return to avoiding this section like the plague.

True.

 

[Senser81]

Between bucky being dense about examples, rob and rams trolling, I got triple teamed like some cheap whore. I concede and will return to avoiding this section like the plague.

Yeah...even Brett Favre retired after losing to the Saints.

 

[ram29jackson]

You're trying to say Brady wasn't clutch cause he lead his team to a Super Bowl winning FG, instead of a TD. :tellmemore:

Trolling, honey.

TD passes are obviously more clutch then "hey, good job, you got us into field Goal range. Now go sit down and hope he makes it so you indirectly look good ."

 

[ssags11]

I love how fans just dismiss there cheating like it didn't mean anything, lol, they were just doing it for fun, had no impact on anything, yeah right

Go look at there record when they play teams a second time during spygate, look at it afterwards, looks at there playoff record, look at it afterwards, yeah, no biggie

And tell me how extra video taping gives any sort of leg up. Also prove other teams were not doing it because the scuttlebutt back then was many teams were doing it including Mangina's Jets.

This story is way overblown and you're trolling. I don't want stats, I want reasons why you think extra videoing gives a big advantage.

 

[jms493]

And tell me how extra video taping gives any sort of leg up. Also prove other teams were not doing it because the scuttlebutt back then was many teams were doing it including Mangina's Jets.

This story is way overblown and you're trolling. I don't want stats, I want reasons why you think extra videoing gives a big advantage.

its certainly doesn't hurt your strategy....

 

[Bear Pand]

Your point continues to be utterly retarded.

In short it's nothing more than, lets ignore the 3 titles and 2 MVPs...and now he's equal to Manning! Ta-Da! They are the same label guize!

Lets compare a whole career to another, but shave off all their top end success! BRILLIANT!


Stop throwing around your moronic definition of choking. For fuck's sake, flat out losing a game to another team in every fucking facet is not a choke on the QB or any individual player.

Choking = Being put in a critical situation and failing to perform at the level you are capable of, or failing your assignment.

Rahim Moore choked the coverage on Jones. He blew the simple zone assignment, terrible positioning and lost track of the WR. Critical situation and he failed to do the fucking basics. CHOKE.
Peyton Manning choked the OT drive by throwing a terrible INT. Like that was amateur, throwing back across his body into coverage. You're out of the damn pocket and it's 2nd friggin down. JUST THROW IT AWAY. Nope, he CHOKED this play and did something completely under his level of ability as an NFL QB. CHOKE, CHOKE FUCKING CHOKE.
Billy Cundiff. 30 some odd yard FG to tie the AFC title game, something he does and kickers do with relative ease and high success. Critical situation. He CHOKED.
Wes Welker. Twice, one in the Super Bowl, one in the AFC title game. Critical moments, dropped passes he regularly catches. He CHOKED.

Do you fucking understand yet?


John Elway - The Drive. CLUTCH.
Adam Vinatieri - SB on the line. CLUTCH.
Dwight Clark - The Catch. CLUTCH.
David Tyree's catch. CLUTCH.
Brady's drive vs the Rams. CLUTCH.

These plays were clutch. These players were in critical situations in big games and either delivered and may even had to do something incredible or beyond their norm to succeed. This is being clutch in a moment when you need to be one or the other.


Good god this shit is retarded listening to idiots thinking losing a game defines the ability to make plays in critical moments. You take these situations and see how the player performs over his career to gauge their ability in those moments. To define clutch or choke on simply winning or losing a football game, as a team? Are you a god damn handicap to think that makes any fucking sense?

LOL at you getting upset and resorting to generic boateng comments. The hilarious thing about boateng is that out of all the people who actually got upset with it you actually took the bait / took it the hardest. I remember you literally wrote a five paragraph essay on how MM was on the decline and it was dude to posters like boateng. Started a State of MaddenMania PSA thread and shit. You thought it was a real poster! Even if we're gonna sit here and act like it was such a lame/obvious troll that we should still point out several years later...you fell for it. That's another story though.

First of all I'm not putting Brady and Manning on the same level. I'm pointing out that Brady's career 05-12 falls perfectly in line with the standard definition of choking. What is that definition? Based on what I've seen it's things like: throwing huge interceptions, giving away massive leads, losing as a big favorite , taking a high powered offense into the postseason and coming out flat, multiple turnover games, accumulating a ton of regular season Ws only to get bounced at home, historic upsets... Things Brady manages to accomplish yearly. It's not my definition of choking, I'm using the standard I see being applied to other quarterbacks.

Brady against the Broncos in 05: NOT CLUTCH
against the Colts in 06: NOT CLUTCH
Giants in 07: NOT CLUTCH
Knee in 08: NOT CLUTCH
Ravens in 09: NOT CLUTCH
Jets in 10: NOT CLUTCH
Giants in 11: NOT CLUTCH
Ravens om 12: NOT CLUTCH

Do YOU fucking understand yet?

And I don't know how many times I have to explicitly point out that I don't believe in or support that choking definition. If you want to argue that it's stupid you're arguing with the wrong person. I personally think the whole choking thing is overblown and doesn't make any sense. I've mentioned that several times ITT. I don't know how many times I have to say this. I just want fans and media to be consistent when handling QBs and applying the choking label to them. They obviously intend on continuing to use it, so do it fairly across the board.

Looks like you're taking the bait a second time.

 

[Bear Pand]

I love how quickly you Manning homers are to disregard the BIG GAMES of his career because his play wasn't up to his regular season standings.


Manning is the GOAT cause he can thrash the previously weak AFC South year in and year out, but when it comes to the playoff.....wait no....playoffs don't mean anything cause it's a team game and cause of weak defence and cause of you being a Patriots fan and blah blah (subsequently this all doesn't apply in the regular season tho? no?)


Give me a fucking break you jokers.


You disregard the playoffs because he's never been as good in the playoffs as the regular season. You won't admit it though. If Manning was boss in the playoffs, you'd be all over how great his play in big games is......you'd be lying if you say you wouldn't.

This doesn't apply to Brady over nearly the last decade? He feasts on a weak AFC East and then when it comes playoff time...well you know.

The reason is simple. The Greatest players of any position, in any sport, rise to the occasion when it's commanded of them. This is something he's not done very well.

Colts fans (in this thread) return fire with, well he's fucking king shit in the regular season and it's the defence's fault he loses (despite the defence being the key reason they made and won his only super bowl)

Sounds like Brady friend.

You wanted to pimp out this OMG HE DOESN'T PERFORM IN BIG GAMES bullshit lazy ass argument and now when it's applied to Brady you want to catch feelings. Oh but he won 3 SBs nearly a decade ago. Well despite the defence/defense being the key (especially in the first SB run check his numbers) reason. Sorry Brady doesn't get a pass for not rising to the occasion when it's commanded from him over the last 9 years. This is something he's not done very well by any measure.

As I said in the other thread.

Peyton has 2 TD's in 2 Super bowls. One from a blown coverage where Wayne had nobody within 20 yards of him and the other was taking advantage of an injured starting CB.


Who's fault is it that Peyton does dick all in the big game?

Is it the kicker's fault?

Is it the defenses fault?

No.

He's in control. He runs the offence, he picks his plays and he throws the ball. His guys catch just as well as any other QB's targets so it's not their problem.

It's all on him.

This same argument applies for Brady in the last two SBs against the Giants. 14 points each time oh god! Who's fault is it that Brady does dick all in his last two SB games?

Is the the defenses fault they gave up two late TD drives? Nah.

Is it Welkers fault for dropping key pass(es)? His guys catch as well as any other QB's targets so it's not their problem.

He's in control it's all on him.

What does that have to do with 8 Colts drives and 1 TD pass?

:dontknow:

First SB vs the Giants, 18-0. 50 reg season TDs, 37-38 ppg offense. 9 drives 1 TD pass. Ha.

 

[Bear Pand]

And tell me how extra video taping gives any sort of leg up. Also prove other teams were not doing it because the scuttlebutt back then was many teams were doing it including Mangina's Jets.

This story is way overblown and you're trolling. I don't want stats, I want reasons why you think extra videoing gives a big advantage.

Let me preface this by saying that I agree the story was overblown but:

A. It's ridiculous to say that other teams were doing it and ask for proof they weren't. The difference between the Pats and other teams is we know they were doing it. The burden of proof is on you.

B. Look at their defenses. Some of the teams that had the biggest issue with the Pats cheating, (see: concerns from the Rams about them videotaping walkthroughs and concerns from Peyton Manning / Colts offense about being spied on in the locker room) were from teams that made their $$ offensively. Since spygate the Pats have been ass on D despite having Belichick a supposed defensive coach.

Now I'm not going to say that spygate is the primary reason for their decline on D. There's other factors, rule changes (5 yard contact, no longer being allowed to fake injuries on D), personnel changes and changes in overall team strategy. But not being able to cheat had to have some negative impact on their inability to scheme as well on defense. We're supposed to believe the Pats were just out there cheating without getting any benefit from it?

 

[ssags11]

And you still haven't explained how videoing gives a team any benefit over another team, you just keep saying the D is not as good. Zero proof there was videoing in the locker room going on. The supposed walkthrough tape of the Rams was proven false by the NFL and the tabloid newspaper Boston Herard that made the accusation issued an apology. Their source was full of shit.

I blame the average defensive teams since 2005/6 on horrible drafting by Belichick, losing his draft partner in Pioli and the heart and soul and stars of those defenses from the SB teams all retired/injured or traded by 2005. They are a bunch of scrubs back there now and have been since 2005. Bruschi was hurt every season after 2005, Harrison hurt after 2005, Seymour traded, Warren faded, Phifer retired, Colvin injured, McGinnest traded.


Nor does it explain since Spygate, The Pats have the best record in the NFL from 2005 to 2012 and a better record than they did from 2000 to 2005 during Spygate. Two more SB appearances that were decided by a stupidly lucky catch and than the once reliable Welker drops a pass. Take those two plays out of it the Pats have two more rings and you would never be uttering another word about this. Two lousy lucky (bad or good) plays from winning those 2 SBs. That's it.

So, again tell me HOW it gives a team an advantage. Because the stats says the Patriots have been a better team since Spygate not worse. If those two losses in the Superbowl is all you have as evidence that videoing helped the Pats win, you might as well make yourself a nice cup of tea and go to sleep for the night.

 

[ram29jackson]

And you still haven't explained how videoing gives a team any benefit over another team, you just keep saying the D is not as good. Zero proof there was videoing in the locker room going on. The supposed walkthrough tape of the Rams was proven false by the NFL and the tabloid newspaper Boston Herard that made the accusation issued an apology. Their source was full of shit.

I blame the average defensive teams since 2005/6 on horrible drafting by Belichick, losing his draft partner in Pioli and the heart and soul and stars of those defenses from the SB teams all retired/injured or traded by 2005. They are a bunch of scrubs back there now and have been since 2005. Bruschi was hurt every season after 2005, Harrison hurt after 2005, Seymour traded, Warren faded, Phifer retired, Colvin injured, McGinnest traded.


Nor does it explain since Spygate, The Pats have the best record in the NFL from 2005 to 2012 and a better record than they did from 2000 to 2005 during Spygate. Two more SB appearances that were decided by a stupidly lucky catch and than the once reliable Welker drops a pass. Take those two plays out of it the Pats have two more rings and you would never be uttering another word about this. Two lousy lucky (bad or good) plays from winning those 2 SBs. That's it.

So, again tell me HOW it gives a team an advantage. Because the stats says the Patriots have been a better team since Spygate not worse. If those two losses in the Superbowl is all you have as evidence that videoing helped the Pats win, you might as well make yourself a nice cup of tea and go to sleep for the night.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I love myopic homer fans.

better is somewhat relative...they havent won in the playoffs ..or rather, they have only won enough to be the ultimate loser the last 4 years. We are talking post season.

If regular season was so important, The Dan fouts lead Chargers and Dan Marino Miami Dolphins would be remembered as great teams, but thay arent.


this is all silly, Brady's a great player/QB no matter what. But in a way they have been like the 70s Vikings and 90s Bills. A whole bunch of grandiose hoopla for nothing but bupkiss the last 4 years.

 

[Bear Pand]

And you still haven't explained how videoing gives a team any benefit over another team, you just keep saying the D is not as good. Zero proof there was videoing in the locker room going on. The supposed walkthrough tape of the Rams was proven false by the NFL and the tabloid newspaper Boston Herard that made the accusation issued an apology. Their source was full of shit.

I blame the average defensive teams since 2005/6 on horrible drafting by Belichick, losing his draft partner in Pioli and the heart and soul and stars of those defenses from the SB teams all retired/injured or traded by 2005. They are a bunch of scrubs back there now and have been since 2005. Bruschi was hurt every season after 2005, Harrison hurt after 2005, Seymour traded, Warren faded, Phifer retired, Colvin injured, McGinnest traded.


Nor does it explain since Spygate, The Pats have the best record in the NFL from 2005 to 2012 and a better record than they did from 2000 to 2005 during Spygate. Two more SB appearances that were decided by a stupidly lucky catch and than the once reliable Welker drops a pass. Take those two plays out of it the Pats have two more rings and you would never be uttering another word about this. Two lousy lucky (bad or good) plays from winning those 2 SBs. That's it.

So, again tell me HOW it gives a team an advantage. Because the stats says the Patriots have been a better team since Spygate not worse. If those two losses in the Superbowl is all you have as evidence that videoing helped the Pats win, you might as well make yourself a nice cup of tea and go to sleep for the night.

What do you meant I keep saying? This is the first time I've said anything about it.

And what are you talking about the two SB losses is all I have as evidence? I didn't even mention those.

Even had the Pats won both SBs against the Giants it doesn't change the fact that their effectiveness on defense has declined. And how does it give a team an advantage? You don't think videotaping teams and knowing their plays, offensive/defensive tendencies and signals gives you an edge? I didn't think I had to spell it out.

I don't even care about spygate really but these justifications/claims you're making are retarded.

 

[jms493]

why would video tape if they know it was illegal?