Could LSU lose to Alabama in the National Championship and still be #1?

[FirstTimer]

If Bama and LSU each beat a quality playoff opponent...why is that enough to sway everyone from LSU>Bama to Bama>LSU??

Because of the way people view playoffs. Especially in terms of this year when many people felt Okie St was deserving of a shot at the title.

What planet do you live on? How do you not understand the perception people have of playoffs?

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Because of the way people view playoffs. Especially in terms of this year when many people felt Okie St was deserving of a shot at the title.

What planet do you live on? How do you not understand the perception people have of playoffs?

I understand the perception. A team wins and advances. Thats not the point. The point is people could still make the exact same case for LSU>Bama in a playoff as they do now.

 

[FirstTimer]

I understand the perception.

You clearly don't.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

You clearly don't.

Just like people dont understand the concept of a championship game, because they would still crown LSU even if they lose.

 

[FirstTimer]

Just like people dont understand the concept of a championship game, because they would still crown LSU even if they lose.

Ok?

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Ok?

So if they dont understand the concept of a championship game, why would they understand the concept of a playoff game?

 

[FirstTimer]

So if they dont understand the concept of a championship game, why would they understand the concept of a playoff game?

Because they are people. People understands playoff in context. They also understand college football in context of there not being a playoff. Get a playoff and the context changes.

With the exception of 2003 there has never been a split..Wow bad math....92.3% of the time the AP has fallen in line.

*Edited to correct the split and bad math..fuck this decimal guage bullshit. Fucking up my postings.*

 

[FirstTimer]

For the record, I'd also bet the AP poll is rolled back into the playoff scenario if one ever existed. It used to be involved in the BCS

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Good points.

 

[NAHSTE]

So I just stumbled into this thread for the first time since page 1 ... Wow.

 

[Senser81]

Ive already stated my point many times so i dont think its worth repeating.

At what point would the AP poll be worthless? With a 4 team playoff? 8 team playoff?

Are you kidding? The point in which the AP poll would be worthless would be ONCE THE TOURNAMENT STARTS. I cannot believe you would be this stupid. Much like college basketball, the polls would be used to assist in the seeding of the tournament teams, but once the tournament is underway, the polls are worthless. Does the AP release a poll after every round of the basketball tournament?

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Are you kidding? The point in which the AP poll would be worthless would be ONCE THE TOURNAMENT STARTS. I cannot believe you would be this stupid. Much like college basketball, the polls would be used to assist in the seeding of the tournament teams, but once the tournament is underway, the polls are worthless. Does the AP release a poll after every round of the basketball tournament?

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

So you say if we had a playoff that no one would care about the AP poll...

But right now we have a championship game and people still care about the AP poll, and this year we might have a split championship because of it.

The AP poll should be worthless right now because we have a championship game, but its not.

If the AP poll is not worthless right now, why would it be worthless with a 4 team playoff?

You keep comparing it to CBB and it continues to make absolutely zero sense, because CBB DOES NOT crown a champion with the AP poll, while CFB does.

 

[Senser81]

So you say if we had a playoff that no one would care about the AP poll...

1) But right now we have a championship game and people still care about the AP poll, and this year we might have a split championship because of it.

2)The AP poll should be worthless right now because we have a championship game, but its not.

3) If the AP poll is not worthless right now, why would it be worthless with a 4 team playoff?

4) You keep comparing it to CBB and it continues to make absolutely zero sense, because CBB DOES NOT crown a champion with the AP poll, while CFB does.

Alot wrong going on here. Will address with numerics:

1) This seems to be a HUGE problem for/with you. A championship game is not the same as a playoff tournament. So every statement you make that begins with "But right now..." is irrelevant on two counts. One, we aren't talking about "right now", and two, "right now" does not incorporate a playoff tournament.

2) See point #1. The AP poll isn't worthless because not only is it used in selecting which two teams gets to participate in the championship game, it also votes independent of the championship game (unlike the Coaches Poll). But, again, this doesn't have any relevance because we aren't talking about a championship game.

3) No one is saying it would be worthless, but that depends on how the tournament is set up. You keep assuming its a 4-team playoff, which is not correct. Polls are somewhat worthless in the lower lever football tournaments, because they have more teams and the spots are determined by set criteria like winning your conference. I don't know how the Division I playoffs will be set up, so I can't answer your question. I would guess that the polls would still be influential in determining who participates in the playoff tournament, but I would also guess that once the tournament is completed, no one will pay much attention to the polls.

4) You keep not understanding that if you enact a playoff tournament, the system of determining the national champion will change...HENCE THE WORD "CHANGE". This is a great troll job by you, because you have gotten me to respond.

Senser: If college football uses a tournament system like college basketball, then the end-of-the-year poll would be unnecessary like in college basketball.

ZB: That makes no sense, because CBB doesn't use a poll to crown their champion, whereas CFB does!

Senser: But we are talking about changing the current CFB system to be more in line with the current CBB system.

ZB: We are? I seemingly have been blathering for so long, I forgot what we were talking about in the first place. I guess you've been right all along. My bad.

Senser: No problem, friend.

ZB: Thanks.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

1) This seems to be a HUGE problem for/with you. A championship game is not the same as a playoff tournament. So every statement you make that begins with "But right now..." is irrelevant on two counts. One, we aren't talking about "right now", and two, "right now" does not incorporate a playoff tournament.

It should be treated the same. Currently, the BCS picks the top 2 teams to play for the title. With a playoff, the BCS picks the top 4 teams to play for the title (using this playoff model for the purpose of the discussion).

Both should be treated the same.

Some in this thread have already made the point that the championship should be the end-all to determine the champion, and it was replied with "well the AP can still vote for another champion".

2) See point #1. The AP poll isn't worthless because not only is it used in selecting which two teams gets to participate in the championship game, it also votes independent of the championship game (unlike the Coaches Poll). But, again, this doesn't have any relevance because we aren't talking about a championship game.

And if we had a playoff, would it not still be voting independantly?

3) No one is saying it would be worthless, but that depends on how the tournament is set up. You keep assuming its a 4-team playoff, which is not correct. Polls are somewhat worthless in the lower lever football tournaments, because they have more teams and the spots are determined by set criteria like winning your conference. I don't know how the Division I playoffs will be set up, so I can't answer your question. I would guess that the polls would still be influential in determining who participates in the playoff tournament, but I would also guess that once the tournament is completed, no one will pay much attention to the polls.

I was only using the 4-team playoff as an example. If we were to have a playoff it would probably begin with 4 teams anyway.

4) You keep not understanding that if you enact a playoff tournament, the system of determining the national champion will change...HENCE THE WORD "CHANGE". This is a great troll job by you, because you have gotten me to respond.

Senser: But we are talking about changing the current CFB system to be more in line with the current CBB system.

This is the change ive been wanting you to tell me about. Say the BCS expanded to a 4 team playoff model. Would it also change to strip the AP from crowning a champion? Those are 2 separate things.

 

[Senser81]

This is the change ive been wanting you to tell me about. Say the BCS expanded to a 4 team playoff model. Would it also change to strip the AP from crowning a champion? Those are 2 separate things.

I've said that a million times. They are two separate things. So you need to stop pretending like they are the same thing.

The AP Poll is only as meaningful as people make it to be. The NCAA cannot dictate what the AP does. Likewise, the AP cannot tell the NCAA they cannot have a playoff.

What the AP does is irrelevant. Neither you nor I have control over it. I am not interested in discussing how the AP conducts their polls.

And if we had a playoff, would it not still be voting independantly?

College basketball has a playoff, and the AP does not vote independently for a champion. So, I would say no, it would NOT still be voting independently. But, again, that is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Ravin]

At the end of the day, there is to many fucking polls.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

I've said that a million times. They are two separate things. So you need to stop pretending like they are the same thing.

Its actually the other way around. You keep saying that if we had a playoff, the AP poll would be irrelevant, tieing the 2 together. I say they are separate and been asking why that would be the case, and you bring CBB as an example. Then i remind you that CBB has never crowned a champion with a poll.

The AP Poll is only as meaningful as people make it to be. The NCAA cannot dictate what the AP does. Likewise, the AP cannot tell the NCAA they cannot have a playoff.

What the AP does is irrelevant. Neither you nor I have control over it. I am not interested in discussing how the AP conducts their polls.

What the AP does is not irrelevant. There was a split championship in 2003 because of it, and there could be another split this season.

You are saying that if we had a playoff, people wouldnt care about the AP. But to that i say, the AP should be irrelevant right now, but its not.

Then you're gonna say its not irrelevant because we dont have a playoff. To that i say we have a championship game, which should be treated the same.

 

[FirstTimer]

, the AP should be irrelevant right now,

Disagree. I see the coaches poll as a bigger farce than the AP Poll

And a championship game should not be treated the same as a playoff.

If that were the case........no one would be wanting a playoff.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

And a championship game should not be treated the same as a playoff.

If that were the case........no one would be wanting a playoff.

It should be treated exactly the same.

People want a playoff because they want more teams to get a chance at winning the championship.

If there was a 4 team playoff, people might still want more teams...so does that mean people wouldnt care who wins a 4 team playoff??

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Earlier in this thread someone was making the exact point that the championship game should be treated like a playoff game.

Many people feel this way.

Treating the championship game like a random bowl game is stupid.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/championship

cham·pi·on·ship (chmp-n-shp)
n.
1. The position or title of a winner.
3. A competition or series of competitions held to determine a winner