[360] Gamestop Threatening not to Sell Next Xbox

[Maynard]

I don't see a home console going fully digital any time soon. Like it or not, people like to have something in their hands. You can point to Steam, but do you really want to talk about PC video game sales as a good market to duplicate? The same goes with music. I think last year was the first time total music sales (CD, Vinyls, digital, etc.) actually increased in 7 years. Considering inflation, that is absolutely terrible.

Grandparents want to give their grandkids a box with something in it, same with parents. The kids might not care as long as they get their game, but the people with money actually do. The same goes with people who like to buy, sell, and trade their games. Remember when kids actually would bring their game over to their friends house and play it. That wouldn't be possible if it was fully digital and locked to a single console.

I just don't expect a console to go fully digital. I foresee companies offering more things via digital download such as full, big-market games, but to completely cut out physical media seems extreme.

nothing against your opinion, but this type of thinking is the complete opposite of the reality for the corporations....its so old school and kind of scary...lol

as consumers we spend money and think we have some say so in market trends and spending behavior. But the fact is that we dont. The businesses set the market and drive spending behavior. The music industry failed to see the big picture and wanted to rake in their billions every year like clock work....until 2 teenagers came along and changed the industry forever. Napster....the rest is history

Gaming companies will follow the same fate as the music industry if they dont change. Todays game isnt about physical media. Its about apps that a person can download for .99 and play in 2 minutes. Its about free games that allow people to buy add ons for a fee. They are super cheap to make and rake in millions of dollars. MS, Sony, Nintendo are getting ZERO dollars of that market...apple gets what, 90% and the other companies take in the remaining 10% share of the app market

MS wants in on this market because it is the future of gaming. And as a bonus, they will kill the used gaming market...which is a bonus...not a main focus as some people seem to think it is

 

[BrntO4Life]

Piracy on the PC is incredibly easy and easily the most common medium for piracy. Yes, on Steam itself, it can be tough, but if you play offline, almost all PC piracy is simple.

And that's only the case because physical media still exists and there are less secure services than Steam.

 

[leaffan]

So what advantage does this offer to someone like me who buys 3-5 video games a year, with the majority of them being big titles? The last 5 games I bought were Mass Effect 3, NBA Jam (EA), Skyrim, Madden (smfh) and Saints Row 2. And I bought Saints Row two digitally off of Xbox way after it was released and looking back got ripped off on the price, plus I'm unable to ever resell it.

I couldn't give two shits if Malachi's Quest that two dudes cooked up in their basement is cheap.

The larger titles should still be cheaper if they're being sold digitally, but as you said companies have no reason to offer a discount because people will buy anyway. I fully agree with that and it's a problem.

Ease of service, you don't have to drive anywhere to get the games. When they are released at midnight you've already prepaid for it and it'll start downloading so when you wake up the next day its good and ready for you and you don't have to stand in a line for 15mins with other pale walkers of the earth to get your game.

You don't have to worry about cds and codes and online passes and shit and trying to type them in with a controller.

You just buy the game, let it download for a bit and start playing. The ease of use of it is so nice its something you'll sit there and not think about it till you actually have it.

In terms of resale well thats where I've said maybe a renting option should be made available although to be honest I don't think I've traded in a game in the last 3 or 4 years. I like keeping them.

Could you imagine pre ordering madden, having the predownload happen the day before and then right at midnight the game is unlocked and you can play it right then and there. You can get to bitching about how bad the game is just so much quicker. You lose the ability to toss the disc in anger though.

 

[leaffan]

Piracy on the PC is incredibly easy and easily the most common medium for piracy. Yes, on Steam itself, it can be tough, but if you play offline, almost all PC piracy is simple.

This is kinda a dumb statement because its really hard to crack and get by the encryption for steam based games. I honestly don't know of many games that would be cracked for that reason.

If anything the digital way would bring a whole slew of issues for pirates and even game hackers because everything can be encrypted.

 

[JeremyHight]

This is kinda a dumb statement because its really hard to crack and get by the encryption for steam based games. I honestly don't know of many games that would be cracked for that reason.

If anything the digital way would bring a whole slew of issues for pirates and even game hackers because everything can be encrypted.

It also brings a whole slew of issues for consumers and producers. What do you do if your system doesn't have internet access? It is common knowledge that most companies lose money on systems in order to make it up on accessories. What money do they make if someone buys a system and doesn't purchase any games because they don't have the ability to via internet?

And again, what about the plethora of locales where people are actually limited in how much they can download by their ISP? If they want a game, they have to wait a week or a month in order to have the allowable limit to do it?

Even the PC market hasn't gone fully digital, mainly for the reasons listed above. It cuts out a LARGE amount of people in the US when you go fully digital. A much, MUCH better solution is to keep a physical source and allow for digital distribution to lower costs but keep the price the same.

 

[Twigg4075]

I agree with you on XBL services, but I had to have my hard drive replaced on my Mac and I was able to download everything again from iTunes. It took FOREVER but everything came back.

I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it does happen.

And the arguement is that people want something to "hold" and soccer moms won't be able to find games? GTFO.

Well, I guess I'm getting the fuck out because it's crazy not to see any validity in that.

 

[Maynard]

it is crazy because its completely false. if your opinion holds validity then how do explain the overwhelming success of apple products and their apps?

 

[spiker]

There's a lot of bad business fundamentals being tossed around in this thread.

Digital distribution gives game companies full control over how much you pay and who you buy your game from (and even if you get to continue to own the game or not - another potential issue with full digital). The game companies having full control is what's important here because you have no alternatives at all. You are at their mercy. When you have no options about where you are going to buy your game, why do you think prices are going to go down? Save your examples of one day sales because those are one off examples. Skyrim is still normally $60 right now on Steam.

It's like Sethmode's example about his cable company. He was getting gouged on shitty service and there was nothing he could do until he found a new provider.

Or even look at EA and their gay ass licensing bull shit with Madden and NCAA. Lack of competition has given us some shit football games for the last 7 years and basically, there's no incentive for them to get any better as long as they are the only dog on the block. If you want to play a 2012 NFL football game, then there's only game you can buy.

One business having total control over the market is always, always, always bad for the consumer. That has been true since the beginning of time.

 

[Maynard]

those are excellent points.

 

[spiker]

those are excellent points.

Well people keep coming in and saying "prices will go down" because there's cost savings with no physical disc, or because steam had a one day sale, or because indie games are cheaper. These are all really bad examples because they ignore the principles of how pricing in monopolies work. That's basically what happens when you completely control production and distribution - you have a monopoly. Goal #1 for these companies is to make money. If they've got you by the short and curlies when you want to buy a new game, well what you gon do?

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Well people keep coming in and saying "prices will go down" because there's cost savings with no physical disc, or because steam had a one day sale, or because indie games are cheaper. These are all really bad examples because they ignore the principles of how pricing in monopolies work. That's basically what happens when you completely control production and distribution - you have a monopoly. Goal #1 for these companies is to make money. If they've got you by the short and curlies when you want to buy a new game, well what you gon do?

But in reality, how much are they putting out for the disc and case? It is probably a minuscule amount, and they are probably paying for the disc and case with the amount of money saved by not including manuals anymore.

 

[spiker]

But in reality, how much are they putting out for the disc and case? It is probably a minuscule amount, and they are probably paying for the disc and case with the amount of money saved by not including manuals anymore.

There's no way to say exactly. Just guessing that it could be as much as $1 a unit. No more than that, but shit adds up if you're pressing millions of units.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

MS, Sony, Nintendo are getting ZERO dollars of that market...apple gets what, 90% and the other companies take in the remaining 10% share of the app market

MS wants in on this market because it is the future of gaming. And as a bonus, they will kill the used gaming market...which is a bonus...not a main focus as some people seem to think it is

I wonder if Itunes/Appstore would have been as big a hit if a game was 110 Apple points and you could only buy Points in increments of 2-4-8-1600.

 

[hackett]

Hey Gamestop..... :eatdicks:

 

[calgaryballer]

Well people keep coming in and saying "prices will go down" because there's cost savings with no physical disc, or because steam had a one day sale, or because indie games are cheaper. These are all really bad examples because they ignore the principles of how pricing in monopolies work. That's basically what happens when you completely control production and distribution - you have a monopoly. Goal #1 for these companies is to make money. If they've got you by the short and curlies when you want to buy a new game, well what you gon do?

I've seen some posts in here worrying about piracy on the PC. The best anti-piracy tool is a better user experience (i.e. Steam) that allows people to buy a product in an easy and cost affordable way. At the end of the day, the physical cost of the good becomes zero. Piracy should act as a market signal that you're pricing out your fanbase (I liked this Gamasutra article: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20120222/91144/Piracy_and_the_four_currencies.php)

If you look at the music business, piracy in places like Sweden has plummeted after the introduction of services like Spotify. Perhaps that model has a place in the gaming world as well. $20-30 a month and you get all the games you can handle. I'm sure there will be some that will cry 'WAH, you don't actually own the game'. That same cry as gone up as products turn digital, be it vinyl owners, CD owners, DVD owners, etc.

 

[Twigg4075]

But in reality, how much are they putting out for the disc and case? It is probably a minuscule amount, and they are probably paying for the disc and case with the amount of money saved by not including manuals anymore.

I read an article not long ago about companies like Ubisoft and EA who no longer include manuals in their games. It's only like a penny per game but they have saved millions of dollars because of it. If they cut out the disc and box they could save exponentially more.

The problem is that, like Spiker has been saying, I just don't see M$ passing on these savings to anyone. They've been known to gouge developers in publishers and create all kinds of bullshit policies just so that companies have the "honor" of selling games that play on their system. Plus, as I've mentioned before, look at their Games on Demand. Those prices are laughable. That's what I would be concerned about. If a console went all digital and the games were a lot cheaper and they had sales constantly, then I would be on board. But this is M$ people, that shit just isn't going to happen. Just like others have said M$ will have the "We're the only next gen game in town, so pay up or get out of my backyard" mentality. Mark my words, if they go all digital we'll still be paying $60 per game and that's bullshit. This is a company that charges you money to play games online after all.

So please don'tr try to compare M$ to a company like Valve with Steam. Valve isn't as great as they once where ever since they partnered with EA but they still have loads more integrity as a company than M$ does. If you think MS will adopt a Steam like policy to digital distribution you guys are delusional.

Sony has taken a small step towards this already. Look at the Vita. All of their games are available both digitally or physically, and the digital versions are discounted. It's only like 10-20% but it's still something. Because it's still so new they haven't offered and significant sales on the digital stuff on the PSN Store but I can see that coming. They are trying to offer consumers a choice but they also want to keep retailers happy because the retailers are the ones selling their systems and accessories.

 

[leaffan]

There's a lot of bad business fundamentals being tossed around in this thread.

Digital distribution gives game companies full control over how much you pay and who you buy your game from (and even if you get to continue to own the game or not - another potential issue with full digital). The game companies having full control is what's important here because you have no alternatives at all. You are at their mercy. When you have no options about where you are going to buy your game, why do you think prices are going to go down? Save your examples of one day sales because those are one off examples. Skyrim is still normally $60 right now on Steam.

It's like Sethmode's example about his cable company. He was getting gouged on shitty service and there was nothing he could do until he found a new provider.

Or even look at EA and their gay ass licensing bull shit with Madden and NCAA. Lack of competition has given us some shit football games for the last 7 years and basically, there's no incentive for them to get any better as long as they are the only dog on the block. If you want to play a 2012 NFL football game, then there's only game you can buy.

One business having total control over the market is always, always, always bad for the consumer. That has been true since the beginning of time.

This is wrong btw.

I know I've said in the this thread that with digital gaming prices "could" drop (and I've been careful to use could and should because I obviously don't know) but that is not the main reason why I feel the move to all digital titles or at the very minimum we have the option to do so is better.

It's like people just arn't reading whats out there about it and just jumping to conclusions like spiker here.

 

[leaffan]

I've seen some posts in here worrying about piracy on the PC. The best anti-piracy tool is a better user experience (i.e. Steam) that allows people to buy a product in an easy and cost affordable way. At the end of the day, the physical cost of the good becomes zero. Piracy should act as a market signal that you're pricing out your fanbase (I liked this Gamasutra article: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20120222/91144/Piracy_and_the_four_currencies.php)

If you look at the music business, piracy in places like Sweden has plummeted after the introduction of services like Spotify. Perhaps that model has a place in the gaming world as well. $20-30 a month and you get all the games you can handle. I'm sure there will be some that will cry 'WAH, you don't actually own the game'. That same cry as gone up as products turn digital, be it vinyl owners, CD owners, DVD owners, etc.

I'm actually suprised that that pricing model hasn't been jumped on more outside of the renting games over mail companies.

For the people that just buy games play them and return them for credit back it would be perfect for them.

 

[spiker]

This is wrong btw.

I know I've said in the this thread that with digital gaming prices "could" drop (and I've been careful to use could and should because I obviously don't know) but that is not the main reason why I feel the move to all digital titles or at the very minimum we have the option to do so is better.

It's like people just arn't reading whats out there about it and just jumping to conclusions like spiker here.

What is wrong? That the game companies won't have total control of the market? If the new XBox goes full digital, where are you going to get your games for that system?

 

[leaffan]

What is wrong? That the game companies won't have total control of the market? If the new XBox goes full digital, where are you going to get your games for that system?

I would not be surprised that microsoft themselves would have almost all of the say in that. They would probably host it themselves and set the pricing and everything. Game companies would most likely just make a % of the sales while microsoft would retain another % to cover the cost of the hosting and bandwidth among other things.

It would be cool if they had a marketplace similar to android where you can choose to go through the amazon marketplace for apps instead of google but I don't think MS would be that happy about being so "open" as it were.

Where this kinda goes screwy is with EA who has taken it upon themselves to go the route you said and have pretty much said f you to other services such as steam when it comes to new games. I'm still sour as hell at BF3 and the fact I have to have that piece of shit origin running the background just so I can play a game I actually bought on disk because they didn't offer it on steam.