If the Patriots win Super Bowl 46, is Tom Brady the G.O.A.T?

[Bear Pand]

Where did the whole judge QBs on SuperBowl wins thing come from anyway?

It doesn't make much sense to do it and doesn't seem like championships are weighed as heavily in other sports when ranking individual players.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Noone in the modern era was better period. You can happenstance your way into a SB or be a caretaker surrounded by infinity HOFers and win 4. But Montana is the only guy who was THE guy asked to win and won the SB four times.
Noone said he was infallible but as I said hes as close to it as anyone's gotten in the SB era. No excuses...no FG help...no benefiting from two hand touch rules...no SB losses or choke jobs...just 4 SB wins and 3 SB MVPs.

Woulda coulda shoulda. If the Pats dont drop 3 east McMahon picks or hit any of the 3 open guys with field in front of them the 85 Bears would have been known as the Shitty Shufflers.

I was responding to JHight, who always places Montana on this God like pedestal for his supposed amazing ability to "raise his game" postseason.

Montana reg season QB rating: 92
Montana postseasn QB rating: 95

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

And Kurt Warner had one bad playoff game in his life (and his team won anyway), owns the three most prolific SB passing days in SB history, and has a post season QB rating of 102 while completing 67% of his passes with a 31/14 TD/INT ratio (and two rushing TD's).

But he only "comes close" to the Montana myth, because of 4-0 versus 1-2. Again, over glorifying the SB game. Warner was every bit as good as Montana post season.

FWIW If the Aliens vs Humans games actually happened I'd take Kurt Warner over Brady and Manning.
Id just keep a laser turret on the defense to "motivate" them not to fuck it up late.

I was responding to JHight, who always places Montana on this God like pedestal for his supposed amazing ability to "raise his game" postseason.

Montana reg season QB rating: 92
Montana postseasn QB rating: 95

Is this the standard QB rating...or the more accurate based on actual science ESPN QBR ??

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Where did the whole judge QBs on SuperBowl wins thing come from anyway?

When they started keeping score of games.

You play to win games.
What player gives you the best chance to win.
What players when asked to win deliver most.
What game is the ultimate proof that you are able to deliver several consecutive wins for your team when the pressure is at its highest.


You throw Brady , Montana ,Manning , Favre , Aikman , Young , Staubach . etc names into a hat and pull one out your team is likely going to the SB at some point very soon.
Looking at SB is just splitting hairs but a justified criteria.

I dont nor should anyone pretend its the ONLY criteria.

It doesn't make much sense to do it and doesn't seem like championships are weighed as heavily in other sports when ranking individual players.

:kobe:
:lol:

 

[shag773]

LIGHTS OUT!




Stop buying into the NFL Films myths. Montana was bad in plenty of playoff games. He did not "always get better in the playoffs and rise up against the better teams in bigger situations".

He won four SB's against weaker teams than he faced in the NFC, and those are the games your memory remembers.

Montana was a great player, but he was not this infallible post season magician that you and many others like to pretend he was.

If Dwight Clark doesn't catch a ball on his fingertips that Montana was trying to throw away, and Billups holds on to that INT, your opinion is a lot different today. The difference between all of these QB's is razor thin and built on carefully chosen memories, 50/50 plays that may or may not go their way, and glorified SB wins.

So you think NFL Films sensationalized the Montana myth because he had a dropped INT in one SB, lost two playoff games to the Giants in the Meadowlands during which they only lost 1 home playoff game that entire decade, and couldn't get a Schottenheimer coached KC team to a SB in his late 30's?

And Kurt Warner had one bad playoff game in his life (and his team won anyway), owns the three most prolific SB passing days in SB history, and has a post season QB rating of 102 while completing 67% of his passes with a 31/14 TD/INT ratio (and two rushing TD's).

But he only "comes close" to the Montana myth, because of 4-0 versus 1-2. Again, over glorifying the SB game. Warner was every bit as good as Montana post season.

Warner did one thing Montana never did, lose a SB as a 14 point favorite. He threw 1 TD and 2 INTs in that game. Lets also not forget that while he had great playoff numbers, he also went 6 straight years without a playoff appearance, was run out of St Louis for Mark Bulger, the Giants had so much faith in him that they went out and made a move for the first pick in the draft to get Eli Manning, than Arizona drafts Matt Leinart and he gets the reigns after Warner was performing poorly.

He doesn't come close to the Montana myth.

 

[FirstTimer]

Why is Manning even in this discussion? This isn't "What QB would you take for a week 12 game at home against Jacksonville?" this is "Who is the GOAT at the QB position?" Manning isn't in that discussion if you take playoffs into account.

I had to groan this post for it's sheer stupidity.

If you put Manning's and Brady's numbers side by side in the playoffs you are hard pressed to tell the difference.

Also, I don't care if it's the playoffs or a preseason game I'm taking Manning over Montana each and every time.

 

[FirstTimer]

I also love the "But Montana lost to the really good Giants!!"...ok...Well how do you excuse the Vikings clown suiting him?

"But he rarely lost at home in the playoffs!!" Ok...How "Joe Cool" are you if you can say he can handle the pressure of the Super Bowl..but not of Giants Stadium?

This is getting stupid. The Montana mythos has people acting foolish.

 

[ralaw]

The Montana Myth is just as ridiculous as downgrading Brady because he put the offense in position to kick a game winning field goal. When did driving your offense down the field to kick a game winning field goal not become good enough? I put Brady on the same level as Montana and the outcome of this game won't change that.

 

[FirstTimer]

The Montana Myth is just as ridiculous as downgrading Brady because he put the offense in position to kick a game winning field goal. When did driving your offense down the field to kick a game winning field goal not become good enough? I put Brady on the same level as Montana and the outcome of this game won't change that.

No one is downgrading Brady for that(at least I don't think so) what we are saying is that you should evaluate it fully. Brady is "clutch" because he did the right thing and Adam V made some kicks. Manning is a "choke artist" come playoff time because he did the exact same thing and Vandershank missed his.

It's stupid and inconsistent. When I evaluate QB's I'm not evaluating the sobriety of their kickers.

 

[RosettaStoned]

As a fan of a team that sees the Pats usually at least once a year... I would have to say that Brady is the best QB of all time.

I could put Montana #1 or #2 doesn't really matter those two are best.

Manning isn't even on my radar honestly. I was never afraid of Manning sending my team home from the playoffs. I have nightmares for a week before we play the Pats in the playoffs. I ejaculated on my floor last year when the Jets beat them for us.

I also fucking hate the Pats, but the truth is the truth.

 

[RosettaStoned]

No one is downgrading Brady for that(at least I don't think so) what we are saying is that you should evaluate it fully. Brady is "clutch" because he did the right thing and Adam V made some kicks. Manning is a "choke artist" come playoff time because he did the exact same thing and Vandershank missed his.

It's stupid and inconsistent. When I evaluate QB's I'm not evaluating the sobriety of their kickers.

The thing is though, that Manning shouldn't have had the chance to put them in FG range because he threw a pick that should have sealed the game, that was overturned on one of the worst officiating calls I have ever seen.

 

[shag773]

I also love the "But Montana lost to the really good Giants!!"...ok...Well how do you excuse the Vikings clown suiting him?

"But he rarely lost at home in the playoffs!!" Ok...How "Joe Cool" are you if you can say he can handle the pressure of the Super Bowl..but not of Giants Stadium?

This is getting stupid. The Montana mythos has people acting foolish.

The great thing about buying into the Montana myth is, it has more substance than the arguments that try and minimize it.

I'll point at his overall post season, his 4 rings and the SB numbers that cement his legacy as the GOAT. You keep pointing out 3 playoff games he played poorly in, than follow that up with what if scenarios and excuses as to why quarterback A is better even though the numbers don't matchup.

 

[FirstTimer]

The thing is though, that Manning shouldn't have had the chance to put them in FG range because he threw a pick that should have sealed the game, that was overturned on one of the worst officiating calls I have ever seen.

It's not like it only happened one time.

How about Brady taking advantage of the tuck rule?

Or years later helping allow the largest comeback in AFCG history(to manning) and throwing a game sealing pick.

Or Brady not winning a playoff game for 3 straight seasons?

Or losing to the Giants in one of the biggest SB upsets ever?

Everyone has plenty of turds on their resume. And for as great as Brady has performed in the playoffs according to popular opinion...Manning's stats are virtually identical. Put the stats side by side and you can't even tell who is who.

 

[ralaw]

No one is downgrading Brady for that(at least I don't think so) what we are saying is that you should evaluate it fully. Brady is "clutch" because he did the right thing and Adam V made some kicks. Manning is a "choke artist" come playoff time because he did the exact same thing and Vandershank missed his.

It's stupid and inconsistent. When I evaluate QB's I'm not evaluating the sobriety of their kickers.

When evaluating the GOAT in any sport one thing that I've learned is that there is never going to be conistency, which is why the discussion tend to be circular. People weigh guys differently, some look at stats, some look at championships, others downgrade for teammates and/or coaches, some overate for teammates and/or coaches, some won't rate modern guys over past players, some refuse to let go of the fact that their favorite player growing up may not be the best ever, some have no historical perspective, etc.

 

[FirstTimer]

The great thing about buying into the Montana myth is, it has more substance than the arguments that try and minimize it.

Yeah, drilling a pass into a Bengals DB and having him drop it really made me see how cool he was. Oh yeah and housing an overmatched(and frankly pretty weak) Broncos team. Or him losing in the playoffs three straight times in horrible performances...then a stinker at the end of his career.

But yeah Montana weas God, never lost a playoff game and always elevated his play come playoff time.

He walked on water and healed the sick.

Montana was Tebow before Tebow.

 

[ralaw]

Everyone has plenty of turds on their resume. And for as great as Brady has performed in the playoffs according to popular opinion...Manning's stats are virtually identical. Put the stats side by side and you can't even tell who is who.

As W2B mentioned it goes back to SB record and right or wrong that enhances the resume (stats).

Brady = 3-1 (soon to be 3-2)
Manning = 1-1

 

[shag773]

Yeah, drilling a pass into a Bengals DB and having him drop it really made me see how cool he was. Oh yeah and housing an overmatched(and frankly pretty weak) Broncos team. Or him losing in the playoffs three straight times in horrible performances...then a stinker at the end of his career.

I'll point out Manning's first three playoff performances, the loss at home to Steelers in '05, and the home loss to the Mark Sanchez led NYJ. I guess beating Rex Grossman and the Bears is more noteworthy than Montana's 4 SB wins.

But yeah Montana weas God, never lost a playoff game and always elevated his play come playoff time.

He walked on water and healed the sick.

Montana was Tebow before Tebow.

:troll:

 

[FirstTimer]

As W2B mentioned it goes back to SB record and right or wrong that enhances the resume (stats).

Brady = 3-1 (soon to be 3-2)
Manning = 1-1

I'll take that one.

 

[ralaw]

FT,

You have one game and you have a choice between Peyton or Eli....who do you choose?

 

[JOHNNYTHECLOWN]

As W2B mentioned it goes back to SB record and right or wrong that enhances the resume (stats).

Brady = 3-1 (soon to be 4-1)
Manning = 1-1

:lolsu: