If the Patriots win Super Bowl 46, is Tom Brady the G.O.A.T?

[Aso]

I'd say Montana is still the goat but Brady is probably#2.

 

[ram29jackson]

Just trolling on purpose or what? I don't think anyone has Troy Aikman in their top five, let alone ahead of Brady.


Brady
5 superbowl appearances in 10 years
96.4 QB Rating
300 td/115 INT
24 4th quarter comebacks
34 game winning drives
16-5 record in playoffs
124-35 record

Montana
4 superbowl appearances in 12 years
92.3 QB Rating
273 td/139 int
31 4th quarter comebacks
33 game winning drives
16-7 record in playoffs
117-47 record
Aikman
3 superbowl appearances in 12 years
81.6 QB rating
165 TD/141 INT
16 4th quarter comebacks
21 game winning drives
11-4 record in playoffs
94-71 record

:nope:

So, he had alot of regular season stats. You see, you are trying to paint a black and white picture with stats alone. Quality matters as well as quantity.

the Best i can do is say he was one of the best regular season QBs of all time. But his quality of post season wins is below GOAT status.

Montana made 2 of the greatest winning TD passes in SB and playoff history.

Brady just did enough to kill some clock and down the ball so the kicker could take care of business while he was on the sideline :rofl:

( a couple bonus points if he held for the kicker in the first SB- i dont remember if he did?)

ultimately,it was the defense and the kicker that won the Pats first SB, not Brady( I of course am not saying defense wins championships, just that Brady's Offense was not dominant compared to others in SBs and he wasnt a key reason for the win, just a good ingredient)

3 Super Bowl wins by 3 points each.... 9 points.. provided by a kicker. so, not only was Brady not that great,his teams werent that great either. ( i'm just trying to compare/contrast stuff here,because philosophically I still consider 18-1 better than 17-0 any day of the week..football is hard,and hurts for 4 months of games)

meanwhile, Montana beat Elway 55-10 and was responsible for all but 21 points in the game...the kicker wasnt even necessary in that game :rofl:

Montana beat the Marino lead Dolphins handily....you see my friend,its not just stats,its quality of stats too. Montana beat other great players and great teams and beat them convincingly !...meanwhile Brady just got alot of yards in between the 20 yard lines and made sure the ball was downed on the hash-mark/side the kicker felt more comfortable on
:rofl:
LOL thats a pretty good one.
I am of course exaggerating, but all those stats he has dont tell a whole story
Brady-regular season= :thumbsup:
Brady-post season= dang good stuff..but not that dang good


... and I am freakin sick and tired of that Raptor mascot smiley just to my right at this point already....

 

[Len B]

Why the fuck are you talking about Montana? I already said above I won't comment on Brady vs. Montana, but merely trashed your Aikman post.

Good to see you took the loss and moved on.

 

[ram29jackson]

Why the fuck are you talking about Montana? I already said above I won't comment on Brady vs. Montana, but merely trashed your Aikman post.

Good to see you took the loss and moved on.

:rofl:

thats an incredibly poor argument for quality vs quantity. It means you arent paying attention to what I said. And if you arent talking about Montana,then dont post his stats LOL

Aikman won games with larger margins while he was under center, he has 3 Super Bowl wins as well. Brady just has alot of passing yards while never dominating a SB opponent. As of now, they are even in post season dominance..but Aikman doesnt have a SB loss...

 

[ram29jackson]

I'd say Montana is still the goat but Brady is probably#2.

Bart Starr is number 2....actually, Star has 5 titles...right ?

 

[Len B]

Aikman won games with larger margins while he was under center, he has 3 Super Bowl wins as well. Brady just has alot of passing yards while never dominating a SB opponent. As of now, they are even in post season dominance..but Aikman doesnt have a SB loss...

Worst argument ever.

So Tom Brady's extra Superbowl loss is worse than Aikman's extra NFC Divisional loss? :rofl:

Tom Brady made more Superbowls in less seasons than Aikman, therefore Aikman lost earlier in the year/didn't qualify for playoffs more times than Tom Brady.

Making 4 Superbowls and winning 3 >>>> making 3 Superbowls and winning 3

Seriously though, this is the worst argument ever. Feels like I'm talking to a 5th grader.

 

[ram29jackson]

Worst argument ever.

So Tom Brady's extra Superbowl loss is worse than Aikman's extra NFC Divisional loss? :rofl:

Tom Brady made more Superbowls in less seasons than Aikman, therefore Aikman lost earlier in the year/didn't qualify for playoffs more times than Tom Brady.

Making 4 Superbowls and winning 3 >>>> making 3 Superbowls and winning 3

Seriously though, this is the worst argument ever. Feels like I'm talking to a 5th grader.

there you go again LOL

I have a 4
you have a 3
I win....

no,its about quality. Brady was not dominant or specatacular or memorable in the post season. Just a 3 point winner 3 times ,not even by his own hands

 

[killgod]

32 of 48 for 354 yards and 3 touchdowns is what?

All credit to Vinny for one play though, all that above? Irrelevant to the outcome of Super Bowl XXXVIII

 

[SethMode]

I think it is bordering on extreme homerism to not say that if Vinatieri had missed ANY of the big kicks he made a Pat would make this discussion non-existent. Brady's career is viewed in entirely different light with Vinatieri. It's not saying that something like the above isn't a good game, but it's just the way shit it remembered. It's easy to point out that Brady got them to FG position, but who cares? Are people going to remember that the Ravens should be in the SB because Joe Flacco not only made a perfect TD pass that was dropped, but ALSO drove the Ravens into FG range before Cundiff gaffed on a "gimme"?

 

[Len B]

I think it is bordering on extreme homerism to not say that if Vinatieri had missed ANY of the big kicks he made a Pat would make this discussion non-existent. Brady's career is viewed in entirely different light with Vinatieri. It's not saying that something like the above isn't a good game, but it's just the way shit it remembered. It's easy to point out that Brady got them to FG position, but who cares? Are people going to remember that the Ravens should be in the SB because Joe Flacco not only made a perfect TD pass that was dropped, but ALSO drove the Ravens into FG range before Cundiff gaffed on a "gimme"?

Not quite sure where living in a world of if's and but's is going to get you, but have fun playing with the endless possibilities.

If Dwight Clark drops that catch, then Montana only wins three Superbowls.

There, now we're even. Not hard to play that game.

Are we saying that a WR making a play doesn't equate to a kicker making a play? In the end isn't it the QB putting the team in the right position to get the game winning points? Isn't winning by 3 the same as winning by 7 in a Superbowl? This is an asinine approach to analyzing sports.

I'm lol'ing at how people are trying to discredit Brady for putting his team in a position to win the game, like a quarterback is supposed to do. It's gotten to the point where we are now using "yeah but if one player on a team messes up, suddenly Brady's not that great!". Brilliance.

 

[FirstTimer]

No.

 

[Leftwich]

I didn't bother reading this shit but i'll give my two pennies on this.

Even if he loses this game he's gonna go down as one of the all time greats. What i believe is fogging everyone's judgement is the hatred for him. I hate Brady as much as the next guy but I give him a lot of credit from how far he's come. A late round draft pick, replacing a "franchise" QB. I say franchise because Bledsoe was not amazing by any means but he got the job done week in and week out. Anyway, I'm sure if we had the internet during the Era of Montana we would be having the same debate.

I read somewhere that people find personal self gratification in the fact to hate successful people and I honestly believe that is how most of us are due to the fact that Brady is doing this and people like me who are fans of perenial losers are jealous. I wouldn't even be having this debate if Brady was a Jag.

Again jut my two cents. And yes i did vote he isn't gonna be the greatest of all time cause Montana is my favorite of all time so i'll be stuck with that until a Jaguar QB comes even close but i'm not gonna hold my breath.

 

[dave]

I pick Montana because of the rule changes, but Brady has nothing to apologize for.
I understand W2BTD's kicker argument, but it doesn't take away from Brady's greatness.

Today's QBs simply have it way too easy. Matthew Stafford, God (or whomever you choose to worship) bless his heart, passed for more than 5,000 yards this season. I am not knocking Stafford, but it tells you what the rules have done to pass numbers.

I can't imagine the numbers Montana or Marino would put up in today's game.

 

[ram29jackson]

Not quite sure where living in a world of if's and but's is going to get you, but have fun playing with the endless possibilities.

If Dwight Clark drops that catch, then Montana only wins three Superbowls.

There, now we're even. Not hard to play that game.

Are we saying that a WR making a play doesn't equate to a kicker making a play? In the end isn't it the QB putting the team in the right position to get the game winning points? Isn't winning by 3 the same as winning by 7 in a Superbowl? This is an asinine approach to analyzing sports.

I'm lol'ing at how people are trying to discredit Brady for putting his team in a position to win the game, like a quarterback is supposed to do. It's gotten to the point where we are now using "yeah but if one player on a team messes up, suddenly Brady's not that great!". Brilliance.

nope, just simply saying that he as an individual at the QB position has not done something as dominant as others. Youre saying " what if montana doesnt complete that pass? " thats got nothing to with it... I/we are talking about what someone actually did do and comparing it. the key moment was Vinatieri actually kicking game winners... Montana actually threw game winning passes. Brady has Super Bowls but no mystique, no lore......no IT

he is no GOAT...he's just the NFL Kobe to someone elses Jordan

:rofl:

are you actually on the east coast dude? I know its Saturday night, but what you doin' at 1 in the AM?

 

[Len B]

nope, just simply saying that he as an individual at the QB position has not done something as dominant as others. Youre saying " what if montana doesnt complete that pass? " thats got nothing to with it... I/we are talking about what someone actually did do and comparing it. the key moment was Vinatieri actually kicking game winners... Montana actually threw game winning passes. Brady has Super Bowls but no mystique, no lore......no IT

he is no GOAT...he's just the NFL Kobe to someone elses Jordan

:rofl:

are you actually on the east coast dude? I know its Saturday night, but what you doin' at 1 in the AM?

I'm not 50 years old, I can stay up past 10 Doing some baseball simulations on Out of the Park Baseball.

Montana needed to get a game winning touchdown because his team was down by more than three. When Brady needed to get his team a touchdown (Giants), he got it.

When all you need is a field goal to win the game, and you have limited time and limited timeouts, you aren't trying to score a touchdown. It's a bit absurd that we're actually punishing a guy for doing what he's supposed to do in the situation.

Again, I'm not saying Brady > Montana, but this discrediting Brady for having a player on his team make field goals and then glorifying every other QB in the NFL for doing it 100% on his own seems a bit odd.

 

[FirstTimer]

I'm not 50 years old, I can stay up past 10 Doing some baseball simulations on Out of the Park Baseball.

Montana needed to get a game winning touchdown because his team was down by more than three. When Brady needed to get his team a touchdown (Giants), he got it.

When all you need is a field goal to win the game, and you have limited time and limited timeouts, you aren't trying to score a touchdown. It's a bit absurd that we're actually punishing a guy for doing what he's supposed to do in the situation.

Again, I'm not saying Brady > Montana, but this discrediting Brady for having a player on his team make field goals and then glorifying every other QB in the NFL for doing it 100% on his own seems a bit odd.

Not on the last drive.

:smug:

 

[Len B]

Not on the last drive.

:smug:

:kobe:

I'll make a deal with people here... you can pretend Adam V misses one of those field goals, and I can pretend David Tyree doesn't make that catch.

:fap:

 

[FirstTimer]

:kobe:

I'll make a deal with people here... you can pretend Adam V misses one of those field goals, and I can pretend David Tyree doesn't make that catch.

:fap:

What about Samuels dropped INT?

 

[DSpydr84]

I'll be the guy who says it since Len won't: Brady's fucking better than Montana.

What exactly has Montana done that's better than Brady? Both were in great situations, both were consistently great throughout their careers, both led their team to the Superbowl multiple times. And for all the love that Montana gets, we sure like to forget his big L's in the post-season: A 49-3 beatdown at the hands of the Giants, and getting his ass benched in '88 against the Vikings.

Considering the inflation of stats, I'd say they're about even, or maybe a slight edge to Brady. Brady's third year in the league was just about as good as Montana's best season. And with similar completions and attempts, Brady has more TD's and less INT's.

Brady was also never throwing to the greatest player in the history of the game at any position. Or anyone even remotely relevant for that matter.

34 game-winning drives (more than Montana), 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years (more than Montana), 124 wins all-time (more than Montana and in less seasons), and 16 post-season wins (the same as Montana).

In another four years, this conversation will be a no-brainer. I think now we're finally starting to see it turn. You don't have to like it, but Tom Brady is probably the greatest quarterback of all time.

 

[Houston]

Brady was also never throwing to the greatest player in the history of the game at any position. Or anyone even remotely relevant for that matter.

:yao: