Is Kurt Warner a HOF'er?

[Nukleopatra]

Warner also has played in a much more QB friendly era even in comparison to Moon in the 80's and early 90's.

Lmao @ making excuses for one of the most overrated players in NFL history.

Yes, this argument is now officially over.

Thanks.

 

[FirstTimer]

CFL stats count for the NFL? No.

It's not called the NFL HOF, it's the Pro Football Hall of Fame. CFL is Pro football right? That's where the confusion was. I edited my post, plus his HOF resume directly mentions his time in the CFL. Plus I thought at the time it was though a lot of voters took his CFL exploits into account.

 

[Nukleopatra]

80.9 QB rating.
58% completion %.
101 Career losses.
African American.

Two seasons with a QB rating in the 90s.

L M A O.

 

[FirstTimer]

Lmao @ making excuses for one of the most overrated players in NFL history.

.

Making excuses for him? I never even said I'd put Moon in the HOF on the first ballot or any ballot for that matter I was just pointing out you can't directly compare stats without taking into account era, rules, etc. STFU. Honestly. I'm not even against Warner being in the HOF.

As usual in a thread about him you're just being a faggot on purpose.

 

[FirstTimer]

CFL stats count for the NFL? No.

There are no Super Bowls on Warren Moon's resume. Only championships.


Sure, they came in the CFL, five of them in his six seasons up north. But Moon on Saturday will enter the Pro Football Hall of Fame, where achievements anywhere in the pros are recognized.


Not that Moon was a slacker in the NFL, mind you. He was so good with the Oilers, Vikings, Seahawks and Chiefs in 17 seasons and 208 games that Moon ranked third in passing attempts, completions, yardage and total offense when he retired after the 2001 season. He was fourth with 291 touchdown passes. In all, he had 60,553 yards through the air.


Still, the foundation of a career that led to first-year election into the Canton shrine -- Moon is the first black quarterback to make the Hall of Fame -- came with the Edmonton Eskimos.


"I think they definitely played a part because it showed that I did have championship abilities in me," Moon said. "I think the consistency that I had in the NFL as far as being able to get to the playoffs so many times in a row showed consistency that I could win.




"Now the championship, yeah that takes you to the next level. Sometimes guys get a championship and they're considered maybe a little bit better than what they are. I think the consistency and production are just as important. But no question about it, championships are what you play the game for. I definitely played it for that."


Moon never really came close to an NFL title, while each of the other five inductees this weekend -- Reggie White, Troy Aikman, Rayfield Wright, Harry Carson and John Madden -- won at least one Super Bowl. Moon's overall numbers, however, have Hall of Fame written everywhere.


Does that make up for no rings?


"I don't think it will ever take the place of not winning a Super Bowl," he said. "It's a team game and it's a team award winning a championship; the Hall of Fame to me is more of an individual award within a team game. I think the two are very different. This validated me as an individual player. ... Not having that championship ring will be something I always wished I had, only because that's the main reason you play this game."


Moon takes special pride in being the first black quarterback in the Hall. He anticipates many more will follow.


"Now I'm the first to get to the Hall of Fame, which is considered the pinnacle," he said. "We've kind of done it at every particular level, and nothing can be said about the African-American quarterback and whether he belongs in the National Football League and whether he belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame."


In college, Moon led Washington to a 27-20 win over Michigan in the 1978 Rose Bowl. But the Huskies ran a wide-open, rollout offense that many NFL coaches and scouts believed did not translate to the pros. Plus, in '78, the path to the pros was filled with obstacles for black quarterbacks.


So Moon, who made it clear he wanted to remain a quarterback, wasn't drafted. He had no choice but to head to Canada, where he became a dominant QB -- and a champion.


"I thought I had done enough in my college career to at least warrant getting drafted at a pretty good position in the draft," Moon recalled without a trace of bitterness. "Because there was so much opposition as far as me playing another position and possibly not getting drafted ... that's one of the reasons I chose the Canadian Football League, because they were giving me an opportunity to play quarterback and giving me an opportunity to play early."


By 1984, they couldn't keep Moon out of the NFL. The Oilers signed him and began building the run-and-shoot attack around a mobile, strong-armed and experienced player.


While Moon didn't perceive himself as a trailblazer, others certainly did. Moon, Doug Williams and Randall Cunningham became the torch bearers for the black quarterback.


There have been dozens of blacks at the position in the NFL, and any notion that a minority player couldn't handle the position has long since been proved ridiculous.


"I have known Warren for many years and realize the many obstacles he had to overcome throughout his life in pursuit of playing quarterback," Ravens QB Steve McNair said. "I very much appreciate the trail that Warren paved for me.


"Growing up wanting to play quarterback, he was an inspiration to me and my brothers. Minority quarterbacks were few and far between, but Warren's play ensured that those coming behind him wouldn't have to change positions to find a place in the NFL."


Moon did have to go elsewhere to prove himself. He did such a good job that he's now headed to Canton.


"This just makes me feel like I worked hard to get to where I am right now," he said. "I took a very unconventional route to get to the National Football League first, and re-establish myself and have a pretty productive career.


"The way I did it was a little bit different because of the other things I had to overcome that didn't have anything to do with football."

From ESPN about his enshrinement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/halloffame06/news/story?id=2537462

From the HOF's website:

Hall of Famers
Class of 2010Selection ProcessAlphabeticalYear of EnshrinementPositionsTeamsCollegesDraftJersey NumbersMore ListsHome

Charged with the vital task of continuing to be sure that new enshrinees are the finest the game has produced is the Pro Football Hall of Fame's 44-person Selection Committee (see list below).

FAQ about the Hall's selection process

The Committee consists of one media representative from each pro football city with two from New York, inasmuch as that city has two teams in the National Football League. A 33rd member is a representative of the Pro Football Writers of America and there are 11 at-large delegates.

With the exception of the PFWA representative who is appointed for a two-year term, all appointments are of the open-end variety and can be terminated only by retirement or resignation, as long as the member continues to attend meetings regularly.

The Selection Committee meets annually at the time of the Super Bowl to elect new members. There is no set number for any class of enshrinees but, the Committee's current ground rules do stipulate that between four and seven new members will be selected each year. The 1973 and 1976 classes of three were the smallest ever named.

Every candidate is carefully scrutinized and must receive at least 80 percent approval of the Committee at the annual meeting before he can be elected. A scale of negative votes for elimination that will vary depending on the number of Selectors in attendance is used.

When the Selectors meet in South Florida next February to name the Class of 2010, they will have before them a roster of 17 final candidates, along with detailed biographies on each. To assure that older players will be considered along with the younger breed, the Seniors Committee - made up of nine veteran members of the overall Selection Committee - have named two nominees from the pre-1985 era to be included on the final list.

The other finalists will be the survivors from a preliminary list of candidates that the Committee will have screened by mail ballot. That original list will have been in part provided by the fans themselves.

A slight modification to the bylaws in August 2006 resulted in an increase to 17 finalists based on 15 modern-era candidates and two senior nominees being named. In the past, the finalists numbered 15 that included 13 modern-era candidates and the two senior nominees.

Any fan may nominate any qualified person who has been connected with pro football in any capacity simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered. For example, a candidate for the 2010 class must have concluded his career not later than the 2004 season.

There is no mandatory retirement period for a contributor. Every nomination received will be processed and forwarded to the Selection Committee.

It is important to emphasize that the Hall of Fame itself has no say whatsoever as to who is or is not elected to membership. The only function of the staff is to process the nominations as they arrive and to coordinate the annual meeting.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Lol @ this motherfucker actually finding an article about the most overrated QB in NFL history.

You honestly think I'm going to waste my time reading that shit? Especially an ESPN article, the most overrated network on Television? Did they hype his 58% career completion %?

Fucking idiot.

 

[killgod]

all this talk about QB ratings you'd think it was a stat worth paying attention to

opcorn:

 

[FirstTimer]

As usual in a thread about him you're just being a faggot on purpose.

Lol @ this motherfucker actually finding an article about the most overrated QB in NFL history.

You honestly think I'm going to waste my time reading that shit? Especially an ESPN article, the most overrated network on Television? Did they hype his 58% career completion %?

Fucking idiot.

Case and point...

 

[Nukleopatra]

all this talk about QB ratings you'd think it was a stat worth paying attention to

opcorn:

Personally, I find his triple digit losses, and his under 60% completion %, and his 3 postseason victories in 15 seasons, far more interesting.

If Drew Brees plays his cards right, he may surpass the great Warren Moon in postseason wins.

 

[Nukleopatra]

LIKE I SAID Warner is a HOF. Jim Kelly went to the SUPER BOWL 4 TIMES AND LOST. Dan Fouts, and granted Marino is beast because of his stats. Warner has 1 SB ring, and his clutch his stats in the playoffs are out of this world especially this year. He is a HOF. End of story.

Another great example.

 

[adembroski]

I'm just wondering where Adem got those two extra playoff victories from.

Jay Cutler has never been.
Crapson Palmer has none.
Drew Brees has 1 playoff win in 8 seasons.

How does that equal three?

I misread the source I was looking at. It wasn't wins/losses, it was games/starts... so it said 3-3. I was throwing together statistics so I didn't really stop to think about it.

 

[FirstTimer]

LIKE I SAID Warner is a HOF. Jim Kelly went to the SUPER BOWL 4 TIMES AND LOST. Dan Fouts, and granted Marino is beast because of his stats, but all those guys are in the HOF. Warner has 1 SB ring, and his clutch his stats in the playoffs are out of this world especially this year. He is a HOF. End of story.

I never said he wasn't...............

I said his case is interesting.

 

[stevsta]

Rightttttttt....

palmer
Brees
Cutler

are all better then Warner.

U disagree? prove it.

are you really a rams fan i r dissapointed

 

[elbingz]

CFL accomplishments don't get you in the HOF and they don't help or hurt you from getting in. Plus, I'm pretty sure there are no mention of Moon's CFL stats in the HOF.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

fuck MaddenMania for closing it's doors.

I want my mega post on Warner's ability to shred 25th or worse ranked pass defences.


like fuckin hell i'm doin all that research again.


Warner impresses me with what he does sometimes, but it's the fucking NFC west for fuck's sake.

This argument is stupid. All good QB's "shred" bad defenses.

Besides, even if we play along with this dumb angle, it's only 6 games out of 16 vs the NFC West "for fucks sake", and it's not as if the rest of the teams have always been bad:

2000(Rams) - Saints won the division
2002(Rams) - 49ers won the division
2005-2007(Cards) - Seahawks were consistantly a playoff team, Rams were mediocre from 2005-2006.

For most of Warner's years in the NFC West, he was playing against at least one other playoff team.

But the main reason that argument is baseless, is Warner's performance in the postseason, against the very best competition. You can't tell me he's a guy who feasts on bad teams when he dominates the playoffs the way he does, and has the three most prolific passing days in SB history (in three tries) -- vs. three very good defenses.

It's a total non point.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Hes got amazing credentials and would not be against or surpised in the least if he ends up in the HOF one day. But unless he wins another ring dont mention first ballott.

This is the problem with HOF voting, in all sports.

WTF is a "first ballot" HOF'er? You're either a HOF'er, or you're not. The writers get off on making silly statements against guys by not voting for them the first time, and then voting for them later. It's stupid.

 

[Liquidrob]

He is a Hall of Fame QB

I think everyone goes nuts with giving QBs all the wins, losses and 'rings', but he did his part and was/is a great NFL QB

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

I'm going to preface this by saying I think Warner is HOF worthy. First ballot or has to wait, it doesn't matter, he'll get in someday.

Personally, I find his triple digit losses, and his under 60% completion %, and his 3 postseason victories in 15 seasons, far more interesting.

If Drew Brees plays his cards right, he may surpass the great Warren Moon in postseason wins.

Wins are a team stat, and maybe a coach stat. The fact you constantly reference QB's win stats is far more overrated than anybody referencing Moon, ESPN, or whatever else that you think is overrated.

Moon played in a much harder rules regulated era, and had far less talent around him for support (excluding Carter whom he played with for just 3 seasons). Also consider the high number of passes Moon had in systems that weren't nearly as innovative and advanced as Warner has played in. It's not shocking that Moon had a lower comp% and rating.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I dont know where you guys are getting this idea that Warner has only had 5 good seasons.

He's had 5 DOMINANT seasons (99-01, 08-09), and two years where he was very good when he had a chance to play (05 & 07). He was mediocre in '04 with the Giants. He was injured/concussed/punch drunk in '02, '03, '06. Those are the only three seasons where he really fell off the map. Alot of great players have gotten hurt.

 

[elbingz]

This argument is stupid. All good QB's "shred" bad defenses.

Besides, even if we play along with this dumb angle, it's only 6 games out of 16 vs the NFC West "for fucks sake", and it's not as if the rest of the teams have always been bad:

2000(Rams) - Saints won the division
2002(Rams) - 49ers won the division
2005-2007(Cards) - Seahawks were consistantly a playoff team, Rams were mediocre from 2005-2006.

For most of Warner's years in the NFC West, he was playing against at least one other playoff team.

But the main reason that argument is baseless, is Warner's performance in the postseason, against the very best competition. You can't tell me he's a guy who feasts on bad teams when he dominates the playoffs the way he does, and has the three most prolific passing days in SB history (in three tries) -- vs. three very good defenses.

It's a total non point.

hahaha...years later and i'm agreeing with Bulger2Holt. I'm with you man. I hated Warner, and called him the new Scott Mitchell, but he turned his career back around and plays at a high level still. He's a definite HOF'er. That whole "NFC West" thing is ignorant too.