Kurt Warner: No HOF For Eli Manning

[FirstTimer]

AND TIME FUCKIN TEBOW!

That loss wasn't at home.

lhoss:

And while Big Ben is losing in the playoffs on a yearly basis Eli isn't even in them consistantly.

:kanye:

 

[jms493]

That loss wasn't at home.

lhoss:

And while Big Ben is losing in the playoffs on a yearly basis Eli isn't even in them consistantly.

:kanye:

still lost to him in the playoffs....cant erase that. Permanent fucking marker.

 

[FirstTimer]

still lost to him in the playoffs....cant erase that. Permanent fucking marker.

Eli has "lost to" Jake Delhomme.

Meh.

I tend not to blame Big Ben for leading game tying drives then having his defense shit the bed on play 1 of OT.


Maybe I'm just able to think critically about football though.

:dunno:

 

[jms493]

Eli has "lost to" Jake Delhomme.

Meh.

I tend not to blame Big Ben for leading game tying drives then having his defense shit the bed on play 1 of OT.


Maybe I'm just able to think critically about football though.

:dunno:

details schmetails....

Bye the way IMO BB>ELI

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

That loss wasn't at home.

lhoss:

And while Big Ben is losing in the playoffs on a yearly basis Eli isn't even in them consistantly.

:kanye:

He doesn't always go to the playoffs...

...but when he does...he wins the fuckin Super Bowl.

Stay clutch, my friends.

:webgem:

 

[FirstTimer]

He doesn't always go to the playoffs...

...but when he does...he wins the fuckin Super Bowl.

Stay clutch, my friends.

:webgem:

Or loses to Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, and Donovan McNabb

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Or loses to Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, and Donovan McNabb

Three studs.

David Garrard, Tim Tebow, Tom Brady...

Not studs.

 

[FirstTimer]

Three studs.

:jonesy:

David Garrard, Tim Tebow, Tom Brady...

Not studs.

:jonesy: :jonesy:

 

[Senser81]

Career game winning drives...Roethlisberger - 26, Eli Manning - 25. Career "comebacks"...Roethlisberger 20, Eli Manning - 21.

At least Manning has led the league in something...Roethlisberger's statistical output is as equally nondescript over his career as Manning...while he's thrown 29 more picks, he's thrown 20 more touchdowns as well, more yards.

Both two time Pro Bowlers.

Your argument comes down to Roethlisberger being a better decision maker and more efficient with the football making him decidedly better than a more productive statistical quarterback. Meanwhile, Roethlisberger loses at home in the playoffs to fuckin David Garrard and Jack Del Rio.

Have fun with your shit logic.

Kind of odd how the "stats" in which Eli excels (comebacks and game-winning drives), Roethlisberger is right there with him.

You ask me if there were any discernible differences between Eli and Ben, then in your follow-up post you seem to be chastising me because the QBs are "different". Then you are ripping on Roethlisberger for "losing". I don't have the numbers in front of me (posting from jail again...dial-up), but I would assume Roethlisberger has more "wins" than Eli and wins more often than Eli.

You say that Roethlisberger's statistical output is as nondescript as Eli's...if only it were that simple. Roethlisberger is usually among the league leaders in passer rating - Eli never is (with the exception of this year). Roethlisberger usually leads the league in YPA, arguably the most relevant passing stat next to passer rating (which is a conglomeration of stats), whereas Eli is usually near the bottom of the league in YPA.

You ask me for differences, then you get pissy when I list them. Stop being such a VSN "Eli"tist.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Kind of odd how the "stats" in which Eli excels (comebacks and game-winning drives), Roethlisberger is right there with him.

You ask me if there were any discernible differences between Eli and Ben, then in your follow-up post you seem to be chastising me because the QBs are "different". Then you are ripping on Roethlisberger for "losing". I don't have the numbers in front of me (posting from jail again...dial-up), but I would assume Roethlisberger has more "wins" than Eli and wins more often than Eli.

You say that Roethlisberger's statistical output is as nondescript as Eli's...if only it were that simple. Roethlisberger is usually among the league leaders in passer rating - Eli never is (with the exception of this year). Roethlisberger usually leads the league in YPA, arguably the most relevant passing stat next to passer rating (which is a conglomeration of stats), whereas Eli is usually near the bottom of the league in YPA.

You ask me for differences, then you get pissy when I list them. Stop being such a VSN "Eli"tist.

Your differences are slanted, which is why...it kind of showed the obvious bias.

And I didn't make mention of Eli's comeback and game winning drives as a slant to his numbers, you just made mention of Roethlisberger being more of a playmaker and that is simply not true.

The crux of your argument is "...Roethlisberger being a better decision maker and more efficient with the football making him decidedly better than a more productive statistical quarterback."

If you think that is the case...by all means, I just think its silly and doesn't actually convince me there is a discernible difference.

 

[Senser81]

Your differences are slanted, which is why...it kind of showed the obvious bias.

And I didn't make mention of Eli's comeback and game winning drives as a slant to his numbers, you just made mention of Roethlisberger being more of a playmaker and that is simply not true.

The crux of your argument is "...Roethlisberger being a better decision maker and more efficient with the football making him decidedly better than a more productive statistical quarterback."

If you think that is the case...by all means, I just think its silly and doesn't actually convince me there is a discernible difference.

They aren't my differences...they are either statistical differences or differences in their style of play (which is backed by statistics).

The quote that you have attributed to being the crux of my argument is a complete fallacy. I never said Roethlisberger is a better decision maker or more efficient with the football. I would in fact say that Roethlisberger is a worse decision maker because he holds on to the ball to long trying to make something happen, or he'll force a deep throw into coverage. That said, Roethlisberger does make more plays than Manning, so there is a payoff.

Also, I never said Roethlisberger was more productive than Eli...simply better.

Again, I don't understand your fascination with "discernible difference". OK...so Eli and Ben are carbon copies of one another. In the 8 seasons in which they've played, Ben has been statistically superior to Eli in 7 of those 8 seasons. What is your point?

 

[Deviant]

Because the numbers are inflated.

The numbers will be more empty/hollow.

You can't in one post point to how easy it will be for Eli to get 4500 yards because of the new rules...when in a pervious post you are pumping up those numbers as though they should be impressive.

Nice logic fail.

:yao: at Eli being a Top 5 QB.

Homer alert!

Ugggggggggggggh.

Yes. The numbers are being inflated because of new rules. You're still missing my point. 4,500 is still going to be impressive. I'm not diminishing it. I'm saying it's going to be the new standard for Top 5 QBs with the rules the way they are. It used to be 4,000. 4,000 yard seasons used to be the mark of a quarterback having a great season (mostly, obviously a few rare cases). Now, it's going to be 4,500.

I never pumped up anything in my first post. All I said was what Eli should be able to do for the rest of his career:

His stats will improve in time. Barring injury, he's never going to have a regular season where he's under 60% completion again (last time: 2007), he's going to throw for around 4,500+ every year, and he might have just one 20 INT season for the rest of his career. With the receiving core he has around him, there's just no way he's not capable of this.

I don't see anything in there that isn't plausible.

You did.

Because there is no way that you could take multiple years into account and conclude that Eli would throw for 4500+ yards on a yearly basis because he's only ever done it once.

How can I say that the last time his completion percentage was under 60% was in 2007 and only looked at one season? That doesn't make sense.

Just because someone has only done something once doesn't mean he's incapable of doing it again. You're making 4,500+ sound like he trying to break Marino's old record or be the best quarterback in the league. I'm saying that it's an impressive feat that is going to signify a Top 5 QB year.

What is so homer about thinking that Eli's seasons might look like this for the rest of his career?:

62.5%, 4,775 yards, 32 TDs, 16 INTs
63.2%, 4,512 yards, 24 TDs, 15 INTs
62.1%, 4,591 yards, 29 TDs, 18 INTs

Also, in 2010 he lead the league in INT's with 20+(His second time doing so). So You were clearly only looking at this past season.

Barring injury, he's never going to have a regular season where he's under 60% completion again (last time: 2007), he's going to throw for around 4,500+ every year, and he might have just one 20 INT season for the rest of his career.

So, I only looked at this past season and came to the conclusion that he might have a 20 INT season in him?

Wow. I'm such a homer.

Logic fail.

 

[FirstTimer]

Ugggggggggggggh.

Yes. The numbers are being inflated because of new rules.

So why should I be impressed?

You're still missing my point. 4,500 is still going to be impressive.

If Eli will do it so easily..no..it won't be.

I'm not diminishing it.

Yes you are.

I never pumped up anything in my first post. All I said was what Eli should be able to do for the rest of his career:



I don't see anything in there that isn't plausible.

Ok..and that should make us think he's a great HOF caliber QB why?

Inflated stats in an inflated era.

WHOA!

How can I say that the last time his completion percentage was under 60% was in 2007 and only looked at one season? That doesn't make sense.

Neither do any of your posts.

You tell me.

Look at what you quoted me as saying. I was talking yardage. Not completition percentage.

Before responding to posts please read them.

Thanks.

Just because someone has only done something once doesn't mean he's incapable of doing it again.

No way really?!?!?!?!

You're making 4,500+ sound like he trying to break Marino's old record or be the best quarterback in the league.

Wrong.

I'm saying that it's an impressive feat that is going to signify a Top 5 QB year.

Wrong.

What is so homer about thinking that Eli's seasons might look like this for the rest of his career?:

62.5%, 4,775 yards, 32 TDs, 16 INTs
63.2%, 4,512 yards, 24 TDs, 15 INTs
62.1%, 4,591 yards, 29 TDs, 18 INTs

Because he's only done all of those things no more than twice in his career thus far.

Completion percentage above 60. Twice.

4500 yards. Once

30 TD's. Once. Lulz.

He's also broken 20 INT's twice, lead the league twice, and most recently did it in 2010.

LOL at your homer ass.

Yeah Eli will "easily" be a Top 5 QB from now on despite never being one before.

:yao:


Enjoy the Super Bowl Rose colored glasses.

So, I only looked at this past season and came to the conclusion that he might have a 20 INT season in him?

Wow. I'm such a homer.

Yeah just ONE, despite him leading the NFL in interceptions twice during his career with over 20.



Can't wait for Eli's unimpressive 4500 yard season next year.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

They aren't my differences...they are either statistical differences or differences in their style of play (which is backed by statistics).

The quote that you have attributed to being the crux of my argument is a complete fallacy. I never said Roethlisberger is a better decision maker or more efficient with the football. I would in fact say that Roethlisberger is a worse decision maker because he holds on to the ball to long trying to make something happen, or he'll force a deep throw into coverage. That said, Roethlisberger does make more plays than Manning, so there is a payoff.

Also, I never said Roethlisberger was more productive than Eli...simply better.

Again, I don't understand your fascination with "discernible difference". OK...so Eli and Ben are carbon copies of one another. In the 8 seasons in which they've played, Ben has been statistically superior to Eli in 7 of those 8 seasons. What is your point?

You are talking out of your ass.

Yards are split throughout their career.
Manning throws more touchdowns consistently.
Roethlisberger throws less picks (although, had a year where he, too, threw for a league high in picks), throws for a higher completion percentage...INT% though, closer than you'd think.
QBR, 5-3 edge to Roethlisberger yearly.
Roethlisberger takes a lot more sacks.
Comebacks and Game Winning Drives are even.

:kanye:

 

[Senser81]

You are talking out of your ass.

Yards are split throughout their career.
Manning throws more touchdowns consistently.
Roethlisberger throws less picks (although, had a year where he, too, threw for a league high in picks), throws for a higher completion percentage...INT% though, closer than you'd think.
QBR, 5-3 edge to Roethlisberger yearly.
Roethlisberger takes a lot more sacks.
Comebacks and Game Winning Drives are even.

:kanye:

Roethlisberger's career QB rating is a full 10 points higher than Eli Manning's. Its the difference between having a QB whose rating is in the low 90's (very good) and a QB whose rating is in the low 80's (very average). Oh wait, I'm talking out of my ass again.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Anyone that doesnt see a discernible difference between Eli and Ben doesn't deserve to beat LiquidRob in a poll.

 

[Senser81]

Anyone that doesnt see a discernible difference between Eli and Ben doesn't deserve to beat LiquidRob in a poll.

LiquidLarry is overhyped as much as Eli Manning, so its not a surprise he is winning the poll. And after winning the poll, his hype will reach Jeremy Lin proportions.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Roethlisberger's career QB rating is a full 10 points higher than Eli Manning's. Its the difference between having a QB whose rating is in the low 90's (very good) and a QB whose rating is in the low 80's (very average). Oh wait, I'm talking out of my ass again.

Pretty much.

I won't even FirstTimer this, you completely missed the point being made...which is as per the usual for a senser discussion.

Tongue my musky starfish.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

LiquidLarry is overhyped as much as Eli Manning, so its not a surprise he is winning the poll. And after winning the poll, his hype will reach Jeremy Lin proportions.

Yeah, and you have a tiny dick.

lhoss:

 

[Senser81]

Tongue my musky starfish.

Acesuper/Phil Collins: I've been waiting for this moment all my life...