Manny and Ortiz failed 2003 Drug Test

[celtsxpatsxsox]

I'm really having trouble understanding your point here. How does it NOT make him a douche if he's blatantly lying and trying to divert attention or suspicions from himself? He was asked a question surrounding the Arod allegations, and instead of saying "No comment" then, he elects to grandstand knowing full way that he's just as guilty.

If you found out a friend of yours was nailing some other dude's wife, and you ask another friend "Would you ever do that?" and he was like, "No way, I could never be friends with someone who did that" and you found out later that he was nailing YOUR wife, would you be as apologetic for your friend as you are being for Ortiz?

It's not a direct analogy obviously, but the point is, he's a douche.

I was responding to Rayman because I misunderstood him and I thought he said Ortiz was a douche because when they questioned him right before the game today he said no comment and said he wasnt going to talk about it now.

 

[OnlyOneBeerLeft]

i think everyone in the MLB was juicing in 2003.

no, just the 100 people that were on the list

Red Sox are just as bad of cheaters as everybody else though

 

[OnlyOneBeerLeft]

As a Barry Bonds fan I can't tell you how happy this shit makes me. I don't even know why, maybe it's because every single person I ever ran into hated Bonds with a passion and acted like their favorite players or other players were not taking anything.

Bout time these guys get their names released.

I agree, even without sterioids Barry was a beast he was going to the hall of fame anyways, but you look at people who werent that great or sucked (example Ortiz) and then became good, thats who should be crucified

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

I agree, even without sterioids Barry was a beast he was going to the hall of fame anyways, but you look at people who werent that great or sucked (example Ortiz) and then became good, thats who should be crucified

I disagree, mainly because there is no proof that Bonds did or did not use steroids early on in his career. Just like there is no proof that David Ortiz did Steroids before or after 2003. But IMO when someone tests positive they automatically taint there whole Career. And I think this for everyone weather it be Bonds, Ortiz, Mcgwire, Manny, Arod, Palmeiro, Sosa, Clemens...etc

 

[Rayman]

I disagree, mainly because there is no proof that Bonds did or did not use steroids early on in his career. Just like there is no proof that David Ortiz did Steroids before or after 2003. But IMO when someone tests positive they automatically taint there whole Career. And I think this for everyone weather it be Bonds, Ortiz, Mcgwire, Manny, Arod, Palmeiro, Sosa, Clemens...etc

OK, dude. I'm sorry. You've lost me here.

Ortiz does not at any point prior to his arrival in Boston, compare to any one of the guys you just mentioned. Not even close.

Bonds, A-Rod, Clemens, were all phenoms who were legitimate prospects and eventually legitimate All-Stars years before their suspected steroid use began.

Sosa and Palmeiro were no slouches, either.

McGwire? I guess you'd have to ask Canseco.

Ortiz was 28 years old, basically a useless player, and all of a sudden becomes this HR giant.

It just doesn't compare. The worst thing for him is that now, HE becomes the face of guys who achieved superstardom fraudulently, and will always be remembered as a flash in the pan.

 

[MVP1991]

The New York Times were the first to report it.

Just saying.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

OK, dude. I'm sorry. You've lost me here.

Ortiz does not at any point prior to his arrival in Boston, compare to any one of the guys you just mentioned. Not even close.

Bonds, A-Rod, Clemens, were all phenoms who were legitimate prospects and eventually legitimate All-Stars years before their suspected steroid use began.

Sosa and Palmeiro were no slouches, either.

McGwire? I guess you'd have to ask Canseco.

Ortiz was 28 years old, basically a useless player, and all of a sudden becomes this HR giant.

It just doesn't compare. The worst thing for him is that now, HE becomes the face of guys who achieved superstardom fraudulently, and will always be remembered as a flash in the pan.

way to totally over analyze my statement. I could of easily just changed Ortiz' name with Arod and I would still of been making the point I was trying to make. Which is my take on players who get caught with Steroids and there Careers getting tainted. I have had the same view before Ortiz got caught and still have the same view now.

 

[Rayman]

way to totally over analyze my statement. I could of easily just changed Ortiz' name with Arod and I would still of been making the point I was trying to make. Which is my take on players who get caught with Steroids and there Careers getting tainted. I have had the same view before Ortiz got caught and still have the same view now.

But neither, Bonds, Clemens or A-Rod have their ENTIRE career called into question. Nobody questions that they were great players in their prime, it's a matter of how long did their prime really last and when was it more PEDs than the player itself?

With Ortiz, it's not a question of what kind of player was he before the drugs, because the answer is plain to see for everybody.

They don't compare.

Nobody questions that Bonds was a dominant force in Pittsburgh and his early SF days.

Nobody questions that Clemens was as good a pitcher as any in Boston.

Nobody questions A-Rod's status as the best SS in the game when he signed that ridiculous contract.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

But neither, Bonds, Clemens or A-Rod have their ENTIRE career called into question. Nobody questions that they were great players in their prime, it's a matter of how long did their prime really last and when was it more PEDs than the player itself?

With Ortiz, it's not a question of what kind of player was he before the drugs, because the answer is plain to see for everybody.

They don't compare.

Nobody questions that Bonds was a dominant force in Pittsburgh and his early SF days.

Nobody questions that Clemens was as good a pitcher as any in Boston.

Nobody questions A-Rod's status as the best SS in the game when he signed that ridiculous contract.

Once again I will that the post I made was my statement on players that get caught with Steroids. And imo I feel getting caught once will taint the players careers and I am pretty sure I am not the only one.

BTW do you believe Arod only did Steroids from 2001-2003?

 

[Rayman]

Once again I will that the post I made was my statement on players that get caught with Steroids. And imo I feel getting caught once will taint the players careers and I am pretty sure I am not the only one.

BTW do you believe Arod only did Steroids from 2001-2003?

You honestly believe he was doing them his whole career? As in before and after that time period? Because that's the only way your argument holds any water.

He looks fine to me the last month now that he's getting back in groove. The dropoff hasn't been anywhere near as significant as Ortiz.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

You honestly believe he was doing them his whole career? As in before and after that time period? Because that's the only way your argument holds any water.

He looks fine to me the last month now that he's getting back in groove. The dropoff hasn't been anywhere near as significant as Ortiz.

If you are talking about Arod then yes I do believe he has done them more than just the 2001-2003 like he stated.

As for Ortiz' drop off, I think he has been hitting pretty good these past couple months. I think he has the most homeruns in the AL for the last 2 months.

 

[Rayman]

If you are talking about Arod then yes I do believe he has done them more than just the 2001-2003 like he stated.

As for Ortiz' drop off, I think he has been hitting pretty good these past couple months. I think he has the most homeruns in the AL for the last 2 months.

You honestly think he's been doing them as a Yankee, even after that drug test, despite the fact that he gets tested regularly since then?

I think I'm done with this argument...

 

[chazmaniandevil]

for ramirez i think we all saw this coming

for ortiz, how could anyone be defending this guy? i wont even consider him legit until he sits out for a year like he said the guilty should be punished

 

[The Messenger]

for ramirez i think we all saw this coming

for ortiz, how could anyone be defending this guy? i wont even consider him legit until he sits out for a year like he said the guilty should be punished

Practice what you preach, brother.

 

[Rayman]

Just throwing this out there, but Canseco says he knows a Hall of Famer (as in in there now) who was an abuser.

My money says he's talking about Rickey Henderson.

 

[FedEx227]

I'd say Rickey or Nolan Ryan.

Rickey would be fitting end to the steroids era.

The greatest leadoff hitter of the era would be on the juice.
The greatest power hitter of the era was on the juice.
The greatest pitcher of the era was on the juice.

 

[Rayman]

I'd say Rickey or Nolan Ryan.

Rickey would be fitting end to the steroids era.

The greatest leadoff hitter of the era would be on the juice.
The greatest power hitter of the era was on the juice.
The greatest pitcher of the era was on the juice.

Just being logical, since Rickey played with him.

In Oakland, of course.

 

[Marms]

Just to set the record straight regarding the rule:

STEROIDS have been banned since 1991
HGH and a lot of more modern substances have been banned since 2003.

HGH was legal in the 1990s and earlier 2000s because it was so new, and HGH is what most of the players who are being mentioned took

HGH is completely different from Anabolic Steroids

 

[FedEx227]

Just being logical, since Rickey played with him.

In Oakland, of course.

Yeah exactly. Ryan because his pitching coach the last few years admitted to taking steroids, plus Ryan was in Texas the no. 2 epicenter of steroids. So yeah.

But I'd say Rickey is the most obvious choice.

 

[FedEx227]

OMG YANKEES VS. RED SOX!!!! RIVALRY!!1!!!! EVEN THOUGH WE ARE LARGELY SIMILAR AND HAVE SIMILAR PAYROLLS!!!!!!!1!!