[ALL] Mass Effect 3

[JayDizzle]

 

Again, it must have something to do with other choices you made, because it was clear to me the options I needed to choose because in my Paragon run Legion sacrificed himself to make each Geth independent, and afterwards the Geth and the Quarians agreed to work together to build a better Rannoch and live on it together.

Rannoch Ending Spoilers AND the available outcomes/how to get them*:

*i.e., don't click this shit if you ain't there yet...

 

Aftermath

The shooting has stopped, but not the yelling. Legion and Tali square off. Legion wants to upload the Reaper code to the geth collective, as it enhances their processing functionality to the point of achieving true intelligence. Tali is naturally fearful of what this might mean for her people, whom the geth were able to shred when they had these enhancements. Shepard must navigate the decision.

Your first choice is to allow the upload, or to let the geth die. By choosing to upload, a second decision branch is opened: allow the upload again, stop Legion, and a Charm/Intimidate check ("Rally the fleet" / "Warn the Fleet".

■ If you allow the upload twice, Legion will will sacrifice itself to distribute the new programming and the upload will be finalized. The Migrant Fleet will be destroyed to the ship by the newly-enhanced geth. Tali will join her people, casting herself off a cliff; there is a Paragon interrupt, but even with it you will not be able to save her. Shepard will gain the geth as a War Asset, but Tali will no longer be selectable as a squadmate.

■ If you choose to stop Legion or choose to let the geth die at the first decision junction, Legion will attack, forcing Shepard and Tali to kill it. The quarian bombardment annihilates the geth completely. Thereafter, the Migrant Fleet joins as a War Asset.

■ Passing the Reputation check, which allows the Charm or Intimidate option, is the most difficult, though also the most rewarding, as it leads to the quarians and geth co-operating. The quarians will back down, and both fleets will join as War Assets. While Legion is forced to dissolve his 1183 runtimes to disseminate true intelligence throughout the geth collective, he achieves true sentience and individuality first, and is able to accept Tali's friendship before passing.

Note: There are so many factors contributing "under the hood" to the Reputation check that, as yet, no confirmed equation exists for calculating whether your personal saved game will pass muster. However, the fandom's best understanding of the matter as follows:

First, there are factors which seem to be binary; failing any one of them is believed to immediately flunk the Reputation check:
■ Shepard must have at least four bars of Reputation.
■ Tali and Legion must both be present.
■ The player must have imported a save from Mass Effect 2.

Afterwards, there are more factors which build up Shepard's trustworthiness to both parties. Players are believed to be required to have done at least some of the following:

■ Destroying the heretic geth in Legion: A House Divided. (Rewriting them is thought to have no positive or negative effect, though it is possible that it does in fact have a negative one: Legion will mention in post-Priority: Geth Dreadnought shipboard conversation that the rewrite increased the number of geth who supported the decision to appeal the "Old Machines" for help.)

■ Preventing Tali's exile in Tali: Treason.

■ Brokering a peace in the Tali/Legion post-loyalty conflict.

■ Completing Rannoch: Admiral Koris.

■ Actually saving Admiral Zaal'Koris vas Qwib Qwib, instead of allowing him to sacrifice himself for the sake of his crew.

■ Completing Rannoch: Geth Fighter Squadrons.

Bioware made damn sure to make this a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't..." choice.

Much moreso than...

 

The end of the Tuchanka missions

 

[SethMode]

That is some end-game ME2 level "under the hood" business right there.

 

[Maynard]

im not reading this thread cause to many potential spoilers. i see a few comments about the ending....ign posted a developer reply to that if anyone cares to read it. i did not read any of it.

i am enjoying the game. the combat is alot of fun and challenging. the rpg aspects are better than ME2, but still doesnt feel like a RPG. choices also seem to be totally irrelivent in most cases.

i also hate how alot of quests just pop up cause you over heard a conversation. since when does shep eavesdrop to get a quest....thats lame. then u end up just scanning for some BS item to return it to the guy. even by dumb fetch quest standards these are really really bad. why not just leave them out and focus on making a less quests but with more depth.

had a question about jack

 

where did she go? i rescued her and the adepts from the academy and they came on the normandy, but she is nowhere on the ship

 

[mgoblue2290]

Yeah it sucks but I'm going to go back and change my decision. Thats part of the appeal with this game, you don't know how your decisions could bite you in the ass.

 

[SethMode]

im not reading this thread cause to many potential spoilers. i see a few comments about the ending....ign posted a developer reply to that if anyone cares to read it. i did not read any of it.

i am enjoying the game. the combat is alot of fun and challenging. the rpg aspects are better than ME2, but still doesnt feel like a RPG. choices also seem to be totally irrelivent in most cases.

i also hate how alot of quests just pop up cause you over heard a conversation. since when does shep eavesdrop to get a quest....thats lame. then u end up just scanning for some BS item to return it to the guy. even by dumb fetch quest standards these are really really bad. why not just leave them out and focus on making a less quests but with more depth.

had a question about jack

 

where did she go? i rescued her and the adepts from the academy and they came on the normandy, but she is nowhere on the ship

What choices are you referring to? This game has some SERIOUSLY tough choices to make if that's what you mean. And apparently the outcome at times, as is stated in the spoilers by Jay, can stretch back to choices made in small situations in ME2.

As for your spoilers, you choose where that character goes in the overall fight with the Reapers. They are with the Alliance fleet, not on the Normandy.

 

[BrntO4Life]

Just read Hudson's statement on fan reaction to the ending. Generic PR speak.

Again, the story isn't the problem. It's the way Bioware has spit on everything they've been building for the last 5 years that, as an intense fan of the series, frustrates and saddens me.

 

[Maynard]

the choices i have had so far seem pretty pointless. regardless of the renegade or paragon choice, the outcome seems to be the same.

now i have not come across any bigtime game altering choices if thats what u mean.

the biggest game choice i have made so far is assigning Dr Chakawa or whatever her name is to my ship

 

[BrntO4Life]

the choices i have had so far seem pretty pointless. regardless of the renegade or paragon choice, the outcome seems to be the same.

now i have not come across any bigtime game altering choices if thats what u mean.

the biggest game choice i have made so far is assigning Dr Chakawa or whatever her name is to my ship

It's safe to say you have much bigger decisions to make with (possibly) far more devastating consequences.

 

[SethMode]

the choices i have had so far seem pretty pointless. regardless of the renegade or paragon choice, the outcome seems to be the same.

now i have not come across any bigtime game altering choices if thats what u mean.

the biggest game choice i have made so far is assigning Dr Chakawa or whatever her name is to my ship

Yeah you are barely even into the game. You have some very, VERY big decisions coming up. The game funcitons very similarly to the first two in the sense that I wouldn't pour over every single early game decision you make. You'll know when the decision coming is a big one.

 

[SethMode]

Just read Hudson's statement on fan reaction to the ending. Generic PR speak.

Again, the story isn't the problem. It's the way Bioware has spit on everything they've been building for the last 5 years that, as an intense fan of the series, frustrates and saddens me.

I don't feel like my face has been spat in, but I do think the ending is a bit confusing and strange. Even the usage of some sort of

 

Dragon Age Origins epilogue system would have at least made more sense, as it would have given you more of a concept of what happened after Shepard's decision -- particularly considering one scenario Shepard can survive (conceivably).

As it stands, it just feels kind of rushed and tacked on, which is surprising considering how polished 95% of the rest of the game is. I do somewhat think if they had maybe skipped multiplayer this business wouldn't be an issue, but it's fun enough as it is so I won't be bitter at its conclusion just because I didn't think that the ending lived up to the other 38 hours and 20 minutes I spent playing the game.

 

[BrntO4Life]

I don't feel like my face has been spat in, but I do think the ending is a bit confusing and strange.

My point is: ME3, by most accounts, is hardcore fan service. I can't possibly recommend this game to someone who hasn't at least played ME2 because they'd have zero clue as to what's going on.

A game constructed as thus means that the developers knew who their audience was (by the Goddess) and developed this title with us in mind. Knowing that your audience is a group of people who have (largely) spent 100+ hours with this tale and these characters, how can anyone in their right mind think this is an acceptable ending?

For me, there's the rub. We're a group of people that have been told that we (through our Shepard proxys) matter and that our decisions shape the galaxy. But the reality is, in the end they don't.

Maybe the takeaway is that it's about the journey, the people you meet along the way, and how you treat them regardless of the consequences. That's certainly a "glass half-full" approach to the end of Shepard's story. If that's the case, then I guess the famous Banksy quote certainly applies here: "They say you die twice. One time when you stop breathing and a second time, a bit later on, when somebody says your name for the last time."

 

[SethMode]

My point is: ME3, by most accounts, is hardcore fan service. I can't possibly recommend this game to someone who hasn't at least played ME2 because they'd have zero clue as to what's going on.

A game constructed as thus means that the developers knew who their audience was (by the Goddess) and developed this title with us in mind. Knowing that your audience is a group of people who have (largely) spent 100+ hours with this tale and these characters, how can anyone in their right mind think this is an acceptable ending?

For me, there's the rub. We're a group of people that have been told that we (through our Shepard proxys) matter and that our decisions shape the galaxy. But the reality is, in the end they don't.

Maybe the takeaway is that it's about the journey, the people you meet along the way, and how you treat them regardless of the consequences. That's certainly a "glass half-full" approach to the end of Shepard's story.

Well that's what I mean in a way, they could have gone the route they did with this ending even if they had just thrown on some sort of epilogue like Fallout or Dragon Age that recounts how certain decisions played out:

 

Particularly one's like say, the Quarian's and the Geth building Rannoch together, or how the Krogan's would breed, etc...under Wrex or Wreav if Wrex was dead.

The confusing part to me is that this wouldn't have been hard even with what they had if they had just taken a moment to write it so that such a thing would make sense. As it stands it really seems like some other games ending at the end of ME3 (in WAY more ways than one), to the point that it becomes extremely confusing.

All of that being said though, I still don't feel like Bioware spat in my face (and this is someone that has nearly 100%ed ME1, 100%ed ME2, and will probably end up 100%ing ME3 through multiple playthroughs). I just want to know more about why this ending was what we got, because what we did get really doesn't make any sense in a lot of ways. Were they rushed? That seems weird because it's the ending and you wouldn't think that they'd rush that of all things. Was it because a different ending was leaked so they had to rush to change it? That seems equally stupid because if you had an original vision, why change it just because it is leaked? It's just a very bizarre situation all around.

 

[Juggernaut]

I've having a blast playing through ME1, I'll just wait until there's a better dlc ending.

If not, well then I can always just play ME1 over and over again.

 

[BrntO4Life]

All of that being said though, I still don't feel like Bioware spat in my face (and this is someone that has nearly 100%ed ME1, 100%ed ME2, and will probably end up 100%ing ME3 through multiple playthroughs). I just want to know more about why this ending was what we got, because what we did get really doesn't make any sense in a lot of ways. Were they rushed? That seems weird because it's the ending and you wouldn't think that they'd rush that of all things. Was it because a different ending was leaked so they had to rush to change it? That seems equally stupid because if you had an original vision, why change it just because it is leaked? It's just a very bizarre situation all around.

I guess we'll find out in due time. I'm just disappointed that Hudson came out and said he "likes the polarizing nature of the ending."

THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU GOT IT RIGHT. When will people realize it's not difficult to make a polarizing ending to a storied franchise because you'll always have fans that will accept everything you do as gospel and others that will despise it regardless.

Don't use internet commentary as some sort of validation that you "did the right thing". Do right by your characters, by your story, by your vision and your canon. Obviously, it's tough to argue that they didn't do that here, but there's so little exposition given to life post-Reaper War that it doesn't seem at all possible that they did right by their fiction.

 

[BrntO4Life]

I've having a blast playing through ME1, I'll just wait until there's a better dlc ending.

If not, well then I can always just play ME1 over and over again.

You still have ME2, no? If you play through both doing every mission and conversation, you'll probably have new ending DLC by the time you start ME3.

 

[SethMode]

I've having a blast playing through ME1, I'll just wait until there's a better dlc ending.

If not, well then I can always just play ME1 over and over again.

It's still very much worth a playthrough (have you already played ME2? That's more than worth it too)...some of the choices you make come full circle in ways that honestly feel like magic, even with some of the smallest third and even fourt tier characters. It's wonderful. And since I highly doubt that they "fix" the ending with DLC (if only because I don't even know where they would begin to "fix" it -- there are so many variables, unless they planned this, which would be equally bad because it would pretty much make EA/Bioware the video game equivalent of the devil), I'd say just play it under the understand that you'll probably be disappointed by the ending.

 

[SethMode]

I guess we'll find out in due time. I'm just disappointed that Hudson came out and said he "likes the polarizing nature of the ending."

THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU GOT IT RIGHT. When will people realize it's not difficult to make a polarizing ending to a storied franchise because you'll always have fans that will accept everything you do as gospel and others that will despise it regardless.

Don't use internet commentary as some sort of validation that you "did the right thing". Do right by your characters, by your story, by your vision and your canon. Obviously, it's tough to argue that they didn't do that here, but there's so little exposition given to life post-Reaper War that it doesn't seem at all possible that they did right by their fiction.

I definitely agree with that. It's a very smug response to a situation, and only serves to drive those that hate you further away (even though the haters were probably the ones to wait in line at midnight).

And I wouldn't say it's tough to argue that they didn't do that here: they absolutely didn't do that here. The ending in a lot of ways not only took choice out of your hands, it invalidated many choices you made (like, for example, the one I mentioned in my above spoiler). Combine that with not showing what happened after the ending, and you not only lost your Shepard out to their Shepard, but whole characters as well.

This is why I tried to avoid talking about this. After I finished, I was satisfied. Not thrilled, but satisfied with the entire experience. The more I peel back the layers though, the more I just shake my head in confusion and disbelief.

 

[BrntO4Life]

It's still very much worth a playthrough (have you already played ME2? That's more than worth it too)...some of the choices you make come full circle in ways that honestly feel like magic, even with some of the smallest third and even fourt tier characters. It's wonderful. And since I highly doubt that they "fix" the ending with DLC (if only because I don't even know where they would begin to "fix" it -- there are so many variables, unless they planned this, which would be equally bad because it would pretty much make EA/Bioware the video game equivalent of the devil), I'd say just play it under the understand that you'll probably be disappointed by the ending.

 

Honestly, I just hope it turns out that the ending is a hallucination trapped in the dreams of a dying Shepard.

I've been very interested in the idea of what happens when you die. Supposedly, your brain releases an insane amount of DMT from your pineal gland (the same way you dream in REM sleep) that eases you into death.

If the ending is actually a dying dream, it actually makes sense. No one survived, the cycle continues, and Shepard went out the only way he imagined it happening. Everyone he loved did what they could to survive (although they didn't, but that doesn't matter much now), which is the ultimate victory of "we" over "self".

That would also tie directly back into Legion's sacrifice for the greater good of the galaxy. His final reference to himself as "I" is a continuation of this concept of sacrifice for life as whole. The constant reminder throughout that Shepard is such an amazing individual that is leading others to greatness by "overwriting" their ideals at the expense of their lives means it only makes sense in the end that Shepard would have to do the same. The depressing part is that it seems like it was all for naught.

 

[SethMode]

 

Honestly, I just hope it turns out that the ending is a hallucination trapped in the dreams of a dying Shepard.

I've been very interested in the idea of what happens when you die. Supposedly, your brain releases an insane amount of DMT from your pineal gland (the same way you dream in REM sleep) that eases you into death.

If the ending is actually a dying dream, it actually makes sense. No one survived, the cycle continues, and Shepard went out the only way he imagined it happening. And everyone he loved did what they could to survive (although they didn't, but that doesn't matter much now).

 

Yeah, I would like that too. I like pretty much every ending I've read better than what Bioware gave us. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if the game ended with Anderson and Shepard talking at the end. That moment was fucking GREAT, and even if it ended on a slightly sad note, it was well written and true to the arc and characters.

 

[Juggernaut]

It's still very much worth a playthrough (have you already played ME2? That's more than worth it too)...some of the choices you make come full circle in ways that honestly feel like magic, even with some of the smallest third and even fourt tier characters. It's wonderful. And since I highly doubt that they "fix" the ending with DLC (if only because I don't even know where they would begin to "fix" it -- there are so many variables, unless they planned this, which would be equally bad because it would pretty much make EA/Bioware the video game equivalent of the devil), I'd say just play it under the understand that you'll probably be disappointed by the ending.

I've played ME2 countless times, yet I love the micro managing in ME1. Both are good, ME2 for the action, ME1 for the managing. I'm still going to get ME3 eventually for the horde mode, its just going to be hard knowing this is the ending.

When I started playing ME2, I knew what the ending was going to be. I waited for the GOTY edition for the PS3, yet I looked forward to that. This...this I don't even know where to begin.