NFL's Top 100 Discussion

[Warner2BruceTD]

Has Shayn always been an intolerable bore?

 

[Senser81]

Quit being closed minded. I'll be happy when the day comes that a young black QB won't be knocked for his skin color. I'll continue to groan when I see prejudice like this. To pre judge a QB, or even to make a comment in jest that he may be inferior in any way is a primes that lacks integrity and is shameful. In the least you should be ashamed you made such a comment, douche. I haven't had a problem with you for a long long time. In fact I was beginning to enjoy you as a fellow VSN member, I still do in fact. I just have to groan this narrow minded prejudicial comment you made, and I'm not sorry in the least for doing so.

SHIT JUST GOT REAL!!


Anyway, sign me up with the Grand Wizard if that means I think Freeman is overrated as the 86th best player in the NFL regardless of position.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

A groan doesn't have to mean I'm pissed off. I just didn't find it useful, funny, or entertaining. I felt that you should take notice that this joke wasn't cool. Mission accomplished. Here we are having a dialogue about this prejudice joke that I hope one day won't need to be said. Now if you want to stand firm and back your prejudice joke that's fine, but you don't have to go all out with multiple groans and get all pissy about it.

In fact this could have been handled without blowing up. It's really not worth getting bent out of shape about. Chill out, kick back, have a beer if you got one, and enjoy the rest of your day.

Thanks for the 'groan' diatribe/explaination. Helpful.

I love how you want FT to 'chill out' when you were the one who got all bent out of shape to the point that you gave us all a tired race relations speech, all over an off color joke....at VSN of all places.

Seriously, once again, get lost.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

SHIT JUST GOT REAL!!


Anyway, sign me up with the Grand Wizard if that means I think Freeman is overrated as the 86th best player in the NFL regardless of position.

I don't remember the list being called the top 100 players: regardless of position. :ionno:

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Has Shayn always been an intolerable bore?

Better than a guy who brags about watching a bunch of Bucs games and didn't realize Mike Williams was so damn good. That would be fibbing.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Come on guys, can't we all just get along? It's what Rodney wants...

This has to be one of Sensers 35-40 accounts.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't remember the list being called the top 100 players: regardless of position. :ionno:

Serious question.

What is wrong with you?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Better than a guy who brags about watching a bunch of Bucs games and didn't realize Mike Williams was so damn good. That would be fibbing.

Post another video that backs up all of my points.

Better yet, post a Josh Freeman highlight video from before 2010, when Williams hit the roster.

Thanks.

 

[Shayn•Da•Pain]

Post another video that backs up all of my points.

Better yet, post a Josh Freeman highlight video from before 2010, when Williams hit the roster.

Thanks.

You don't have to be mad because you're wrong about Freeman, buddy.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

You don't have to be mad because you're wrong about Freeman, buddy.

What am I wrong about?

Check his numbers pre-Williams.

Check his numbers after.

Do the same with Blount.

Or re-read the thread, we did it for you. Those two players changed the team far more than Freeman did.

You posted a video that backed it up!

 

[Blick]

Now that I've had some time to cool down and step away from this clusterfuck of a thread, I'd like to present some stats that I find interesting. These are facts, gentlemen, so it would be nice if they could be taken at face value, and not as an attempt to troll, or slob on Freeman, or whatever. I think sometimes since some of us have posted on the same sites for so long that people tend to argue the poster or the screen name instead of the actual information presented, so it would be nice if you guys actually read this shit and think about it before letting dumbassery ensue again.

So anyway, here is my futile attempt to actually make a decent football post.

To put in perspective how truly outstanding Freeman's season was last year, I looked up the TD/INT ratios of other 1st round QB's to see how Freeman stacked up. Like Freeman, I looked at each QB's 2nd year in the league, if they started. For guys who didn't start in their second year like Rodgers, I looked at their first year starting. I'm simply going to list the numbers as +2, for example, if a QB had 20 TD's and 18 INT's. Here we go...

Carson Palmer - even
Alex Smith - even
Mark Sanchez - +4
Kerry Collins - +5
Jay Cutler - +6
Eli Manning - +7
Matt Ryan - +8
Mike Vick - +8
Donovan McNabb - +8
Ben Roethlisberger - +8
Joe Flacco - +9
Peyton Manning - +11
Phillip Rivers - +13
Rodgers - +15
Josh Freeman - +19

Tell me that doesn't mindfuck the shit out of you.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that Freeman is better than any of those guys, I'm just saying his season was really impressive...certainly more impressive than the guys arguing with me thought.

Now, I know what's coming next..."it's just one year...let's see him do it for more than that before we start kissing his ass". I agree. But, I think Freeman's high level of play that he displayed last year will most likely continue based on the way other young QB's have grown. How many guys on that list, especially the guys with better numbers, regressed as they got more experience? A breakout year is usually a sign of things to come.

I know Warner was hung up on draft position and whatnot, so why did I include only first rounders? I did that because QB's chosen in the 1st round are expected to be franchise QB's that you can win Superbowls with. In this league, IMO, you need a franchise QB to be successful. The recent Superbowl winners would agree with that as well since 5 out of the last 6 champions were quarterbacked by first rounders, and the QB left out, Drew Brees, was a high 2nd round choice.

BTW, I know some dumbass is going to be like "look at Tom Brady...". Major exception. How many success stories like Tom Brady are there? Exactly. There are a lot of first round examples you can point to.

So yeah, Freeman had an exceptional year, not "one decent season" like Warner tried to say. He will probably only get better, which is why I don't have a major problem with him cracking the list a year early. If history is any indication, he will probably deserve to make future lists.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't think anyone ever disputed he had a good statistical season.

He still isn't the 86th best player in the league.

And its not me hung up on draft positions. I'm the one who doesn't care. You kept refering to players draft positions and college status for some odd reason. Its irrelevent.

 

[Blick]

I don't think anyone ever disputed he had a good statistical season.

He still isn't the 86th best player in the league.

Yeah, you said, word for word, that he had "one decent season".

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Yeah, you said, word for word, that he had "one decent season".

I also said a million times in the same thread that he had a "good" season. Are we seriously going to be this trite? Who gives a fuck about the adjective?

This is like talking to children.

 

[Blick]

I also said a million times in the same thread that he had a "good" season. Are we seriously going to be this trite? Who gives a fuck about the adjective?

This is like talking to children.

No, you didn't...you've repeatedly tried to discredit Freeman.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

No, you didn't...you've repeatedly tried to discredit Freeman.

This is where you are missing the basic point I have been trying to make, and also the basic point of everyone else "anti" Freeman.

Nobody has diputed he had a good season. In fact, I don't think anyone has said that he can't play, or that he's a bad player.

ALL WE ARE SAYING IS THAT HE ISN'T A TOP 100 PLAYER

Of course I have tried to 'discredit' him. If I'm trying to show a player is overrated, am I supposed to point out the positives? Are you on a Polish debate team, or something?

I've pointed out what I've seen from him, which is a guy who sucked two years ago, and had a good year last year, helped greatly IMO by several spectacular plays by Williams and some others. Based on this, I'm not ready to crown him. I also feel he will never repeat those numbers, as he will revert back to the norm (in terms of hiis lack of turnovers, 50/50 balls going the other way, etc.) I feel a lot went his way.

I also dispute the claim by BB and others that he was the primary reason the Bucs improved so dratically. I think it had more to do with the emergance of Williams & Blount. Numbers of both Freeman and the offense back that up.

That's the cliffs of my stance throughout this mess.

 

[Blick]

This is where you are missing the basic point I have been trying to make, and also the basic point of everyone else "anti" Freeman.

Nobody has diputed he had a good season. In fact, I don't think anyone has said that he can't play, or that he's a bad player.

You've done all you can to downplay how good his season was, so excuse me for interpreting that as you disputing that he had a good season.

ALL WE ARE SAYING IS THAT HE ISN'T A TOP 100 PLAYER

NO FUCKING SHIT. The issue here (btw, I love how I keep having to explain this to you when you have this superior attitude and don't even know wtf is going on) is how close we think he is to the top 100.

Of course I have tried to 'discredit' him. If I'm trying to show a player is overrated, am I supposed to point out the positives? Are you on a Polish debate team, or something?

You claimed that you have said Freeman had a good year a 'million times' in this thread, which is a ridiculous exaggeration, and a lie, because you haven't said it one fucking time. The closest you came was when you were making the absolutely laughable mention of Matt Cassel's '2-3 very good seasons', and said that 'Freeman has one'. Other than that, it's been 'shitastic years' and 'Williams saving his ass', so again, excuse me for not realizing you thought he had a good season.

I've pointed out what I've seen from him, which is a guy who sucked two years ago, and had a good year last year, helped greatly IMO by several spectacular plays by Williams and some others. Based on this, I'm not ready to crown him. I also feel he will never repeat those numbers, as he will revert back to the norm (in terms of hiis lack of turnovers, 50/50 balls going the other way, etc.) I feel a lot went his way.

And we've pointed out that you don't know what you're talking about in this case.

And, LOL at him never repeating his numbers. Are Williams and Blount no longer going to play? I don't know how you can make such a big case for them having a significant impact, and then say Freeman is going to revert back to his rookie self...aren't your boys going to continue to lift Freeman's play up? PLUS, Primetime said Freeman's QB rating was 85 before Blount. So, Freeman worked hard and made himself better and got his QB rating from 59.8 his rookie year to 85 before Blount. That's a jump of about 25 points WITHOUT BLOUNT. Blount's impact made Freeman's rating jump 17 points...but yeah, you're right, Blount had more of an impact.

And as I pointed out in my post about 1st round QB's, they don't regress or revert back to the struggling play of their rookie seasons after they have a breakout year. They get better with experience. What makes Freeman different?

 

[FirstTimer]

The closest you came was when you were making the absolutely laughable mention of Matt Cassel's '2-3 very good seasons', and said that 'Freeman has one'.

Good work pointing out that W2B not only claimed Freeman had one good season...but that it was "very good".

:smug:

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I didn't say he would revert back to his rookie numbers. I said he would revert back to the norm. He had unusual statistical oddities in his numbers that are highly unsustainable. If he sustains some of these numbers, he'll be the greatest fucking QB of all time.

I believe what we saw was a career year. You act as if every career line moves upward. Sometimes players peak statistically in an early season. I think that's what we have here, unless of course, you honestly think he will get better, improve on those numbers, and be the greatest QB of all time.

Based on what I've seen, I disagree. His numbers will drop. He will never match them.

 

[Blick]

I'm not saying he's going to continue having years like this past year. Hell, even a 90 QB rating would be a drop. An 85 rating after that would be a drop. So yeah, he could take some dips, but that would still have him playing at a pretty high level.

And also, improved play doesn't always mean improved numbers. He could start to win more, get to the playoffs, etc.