Pinning it all on Favre is ridiculous

[Realist]

lol, this thread is funny

 

[bucky]

you guys keep bring up Superbowls and playoffs which are team accomplishments.

Playoffs and SB's are brought up because of the magnitude of the games. Brett plays much better in the regular season than he does in the playoffs. How one plays in the playoffs does help define how good they are. Not just regular season stats.

 

[bucky]

it doesnt matter how you get it , as long as you get it. Favre had/ has had a long career. Thats a positive, not a negative.

And his playoff performances are a negative.

 

[ram29jackson]

Playoffs and SB's are brought up because of the magnitude of the games. Brett plays much better in the regular season than he does in the playoffs. How one plays in the playoffs does help define how good they are. Not just regular season stats.

playoffs and SB's are team accomplishments.

Brett Favre individually as a QB owns all the the stats in this era. Therefore he is indisputably one of the great QBs.

Joe Montana has more Super Bowls . But who's to say how much effort was his because he played on veritable all star teams that lightened his work load tremendously .

Again, there is no greatest ever/ all time. Just guys who played better than the majority of their peers during the era's they were in the league.

 

[ram29jackson]

And his playoff performances are a negative.

he is a first ballot Hall of Famer-

there is no negative in that.

 

[bucky]

he is a first ballot Hall of Famer-

there is no negative in that.

He should be a first ballot HOF'er, but his playoff performances are a negative.

Joe Montana has more Super Bowls . But who's to say how much effort was his because he played on veritable all star teams that lightened his work load tremendously .

I don't recall Montana (or Starr) making those critical, careless mistakes in playoff games.

Starr >>> Favre

 

[ram29jackson]

He should be a first ballot HOF'er, but his playoff performances are a negative.



I don't recall Montana (or Starr) making those critical, careless mistakes in playoff games.

Starr >>> Favre

read between the lines, I am saying some of Favres mistakes are due to him not having other all stars on the team that would take some of the burden off off of him and almost carry it themselves.

Favre never had what Aikman and Montana or even Jim kelly had around them. You put Montana or Aikman on the Packers, I doubt they fair much better than he did on an overall basis in that period of time.

 

[MrBill]

read between the lines, I am saying some of Favres mistakes are due to him not having other all stars on the team that would take some of the burden off off of him and almost carry it themselves.

Favre never had what Aikman and Montana or even Jim kelly had around them. You put Montana or Aikman on the Packers, I doubt they fair much better than he did on an overall basis in that period of time.

There is some truth in this. Favre has never played with a HoF caliber player on offense until this season when AP was in the backfield. If he keeps putting the ball on the ground though, it is doubtful that even he will make the HoF. One of Favre's biggest assets has been to elevate the level of play of his teammates by instilling confidence in their abilities.

 

[bucky]

read between the lines, I am saying some of Favres mistakes are due to him not having other all stars on the team that would take some of the burden off off of him and almost carry it themselves.

Brett had very good weapons on offense to utilize, including an 1800+ yard running back.

And....The defense, running backs, receivers, didn't throw those critical, playoff game ending ints. Those are on Brett and Brett alone. You can't pin Brett's critical mistakes on other players. Too many CRITICAL mistakes in playoff games at the most CRITICAL times for Brett to be GOAT.

Starr was much smarter and never made those CRITICAL playoff ending mistakes.

Starr >>>> Favre.

 

[MrBill]

Brett had very good weapons on offense to utilize, including an 1800+ yard running back.

And....The defense, running backs, receivers, didn't throw those critical, playoff game ending ints. Those are on Brett and Brett alone. You can't pin Brett's critical mistakes on other players. Too many CRITICAL mistakes in playoff games at the most CRITICAL times for Brett to be GOAT.

Starr was much smarter and never made those CRITICAL playoff ending mistakes.

Starr >>>> Favre.

There is a big difference between "very good" weapons and HoF weapons. Starr had HoF players Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, Jim Ringo and Forrest Gregg on offense while Favre has had no HoF offensive players to help take some of the load. Though Favre did have Reggie White on defense, Starr had Herb Adderly, Willie Davis, Henry Jordan, Ray Nitschke, Emlen Tunnell and Willie Davis to help keep the opponents offense out of the endzone. Starr played with a dozen of the top 100 guys to ever play the game. Favre played with one and he was on defense.

A lot more was asked of Favre over his career than Starr. Who knew who was getting the ball in critical situations when Starr was playing? Everybody knew who was getting it when Favre was under center.

Starr's supporting cast>>>>Favre's supporting cast

 

[ram29jackson]

Brett had very good weapons on offense to utilize, including an 1800+ yard running back.

And....The defense, running backs, receivers, didn't throw those critical, playoff game ending ints. Those are on Brett and Brett alone. You can't pin Brett's critical mistakes on other players. Too many CRITICAL mistakes in playoff games at the most CRITICAL times for Brett to be GOAT.

Starr was much smarter and never made those CRITICAL playoff ending mistakes.

Starr >>>> Favre.

again, there is no greatest of all time. I dont care about greatest of all time.


No, there is a major differance between being really good and being Emmit Smith, Thurman Thomas, Reed , Lofton, Irvin.

Favre never had guys that would take it upon themselves to make plays at key moments to take the pressure off him. Favre had teammates who would sometimes just wonder what he would do next to get them out of a situation instead of coaching themselves to greatness.

I am not pinning Favres mistakes on others. I am saying those situations would have never surfaced if favre had playmakers to pick up the slack during the course of a game.

And I still say the other Hall of fame QBs wouldnt have faired much better had they been under center for the Packers.

 

[bucky]

Favre never had guys that would take it upon themselves to make plays at key moments to take the pressure off him.

He had an 1800+ yard rusher that was a very good receiver, and had 1000+ yard receivers.

Nomatter how much you try to excuse those CRITICAL errors that Brett made in VERY CRITICAL games, that other QB's didn't make (Starr), those CRITICAL mistakes of Brett's don't go away. They did happen. And Brett made those mistakes. He did it again in Minny.

Brett HOF'er. Great Regular Season QB. Average playoff QB.
Starr HOF'er. Above average regular season QB. GREAT PLAYOFF QB.

Starr >>> Favre.

 

[ram29jackson]

He had an 1800+ yard rusher that was a very good receiver, and had 1000+ yard receivers.

Nomatter how much you try to excuse those CRITICAL errors that Brett made in VERY CRITICAL games, that other QB's didn't make (Starr), those CRITICAL mistakes of Brett's don't go away. They did happen. And Brett made those mistakes. He did it again in Minny.

Brett HOF'er. Great Regular Season QB. Average playoff QB.
Starr HOF'er. Above average regular season QB. GREAT PLAYOFF QB.

Starr >>> Favre.

you are looking at season long over all stats. i am talking about key moments in a game where a true playmaker takes the moment for himself. Favre didnt have any. Dallas, Pitt, Buffalo, Raiders, 49ers had those type of people.

 

[Sportsbuck]

you are looking at season long over all stats. i am talking about key moments in a game where a true playmaker takes the moment for himself. Favre didnt have any. Dallas, Pitt, Buffalo, Raiders, 49ers had those type of people.

Neither did Tom Brady when he won his Super Bowls.

 

[ram29jackson]

Neither did Tom Brady when he won his Super Bowls.

if vinatieri doesnt make the field goals he made brady doesnt have as much post season success that he did.

 

[Len B]

you are looking at season long over all stats. i am talking about key moments in a game where a true playmaker takes the moment for himself. Favre didnt have any. Dallas, Pitt, Buffalo, Raiders, 49ers had those type of people.

Oh hai!

 

[ram29jackson]

Oh hai!

cool, great !
but thats one guy and one year. who only saw special teams time.

all the other QBs of note were on teams that had more highly motivated all star starters with more opportunities.

Howard was great to watch. he ran through tackles, as if to say- you just plain aint stopping me.


thats a cool picture

 

[MrBill]

Oh hai!

Whoa, Desmond Howard made the HoF?

 

[bucky]

you are looking at season long over all stats. i am talking about key moments in a game where a true playmaker takes the moment for himself. Favre didnt have any. Dallas, Pitt, Buffalo, Raiders, 49ers had those type of people.

I looked up some playoff rushing averages from 2000 to 2007 and I found things like 4.6, 4.8, 4.0, 5.9. These are not single game averages, they are playoff averages.

Brett had Ahman Green, Javon Walker, Donald Driver, Gregg Jennings, Ryan Grant (had a 5.9 average in the 2007 playoffs).

He had a buldozing O-Line during the Green Years. Talk about taking pressure off a QB.

Bart Starr was a much smarter QB than Brett and didn't make those critical mistakes in those critical games. The kind of mistakes that Brett has now made w/ 3 different teams.

Starr >>>> Favre

 

[MrBill]

I looked up some playoff rushing averages from 2000 to 2007 and I found things like 4.6, 4.8, 4.0, 5.9. These are not single game averages, they are playoff averages.

Brett had Ahman Green, Javon Walker, Donald Driver, Gregg Jennings, Ryan Grant (had a 5.9 average in the 2007 playoffs).

He had a buldozing O-Line during the Green Years. Talk about taking pressure off a QB.

Bart Starr was a much smarter QB than Brett and didn't make those critical mistakes in those critical games. The kind of mistakes that Brett has now made w/ 3 different teams.

Starr >>>> Favre

But you are completely ignoring (on purpose I believe) the fact that Starr had a dozen HoF players around him. None of the guys you mentioned above are going to sniff the HoF.

Starr's supporting cast>>>>Favre's supporting cast

To argue that is just flat out misguided.