Pinning it all on Favre is ridiculous

[ram29jackson]

I looked up some playoff rushing averages from 2000 to 2007 and I found things like 4.6, 4.8, 4.0, 5.9. These are not single game averages, they are playoff averages.

Brett had Ahman Green, Javon Walker, Donald Driver, Gregg Jennings, Ryan Grant (had a 5.9 average in the 2007 playoffs).

He had a buldozing O-Line during the Green Years. Talk about taking pressure off a QB.

Bart Starr was a much smarter QB than Brett and didn't make those critical mistakes in those critical games. The kind of mistakes that Brett has now made w/ 3 different teams.

Starr >>>> Favre

what mrbill said haha

more patient, maybe. He wasnt smarter. thats too subjective to argue


and you keep bringing up stats. i am talking about moments in time and players resolve so favre didnt have the game laying on his shoulders all the time. he didnt have the game breakers like the other top dogs.

 

[Rayman]

Whoa, Desmond Howard made the HoF?

I guess Reggie White getting a Super Bowl record 3 sacks didn't help either?

 

[Len B]

Whoa, Desmond Howard made the HoF?

i am talking about key moments in a game where a true playmaker takes the moment for himself. Favre didnt have any

Favre's biggest moment of his career, he had one.

 

[MrBill]

I guess Reggie White getting a Super Bowl record 3 sacks didn't help either?

I acknowledged earlier that Brett had one HoF caliber teammate on defense when he went to the Superbowl. That is the only one he has played with in his 20 year career. Aikman had Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin on offense with more likely to be added in the future along with people like Charles Haley on defense.

i am talking about key moments in a game where a true playmaker takes the moment for himself. Favre didnt have any

Favre's biggest moment of his career, he had one.

And like a flash in the pan, he was gone....and will never even get nominated for the HoF, much less elected. Unlike several Patriots players that will be nominated and go in as their 5 year windows are up.

 

[Rayman]

I acknowledged earlier that Brett had one HoF caliber teammate on defense when he went to the Superbowl. That is the only one he has played with in his 20 year career. Aikman had Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin on offense with more likely to be added in the future along with people like Charles Haley on defense.



And like a flash in the pan, he was gone....and will never even get nominated for the HoF, much less elected. Unlike several Patriots players that will be nominated and go in as their 5 year windows are up.

OK, but stop acting like the 1 year Packers dynasty was all Brett Favre. It wasn't. He had more than enough star players on that team and while they may not have had the longevity as stars to qualify for the HOF, they were good enough at the time to be considered elite or close to it. That was an extremely talented team and the great Favre was only able to squeeze one championship out of it.


<waits for next Cowboys-aimed zinger>

 

[Sportsbuck]

And like a flash in the pan, he was gone....and will never even get nominated for the HoF, much less elected. Unlike several Patriots players that will be nominated and go in as their 5 year windows are up.

Which offensive player outside of Brady will get nominated from those Super Bowl winning Patriots teams? The only one that comes to mind is Corey Dillon and Ahman Green had a comparable career to him.

 

[Len B]

And like a flash in the pan, he was gone....and will never even get nominated for the HoF, much less elected. Unlike several Patriots players that will be nominated and go in as their 5 year windows are up.

Oh I would LOVE to hear this list of several Patriots who are making the hall of fame from the Patriots three Super Bowl rings.

I'm calling you out on your bluff.

 

[NAHSTE]

Having not checked this thread since the day after the game, I'm amazed this is at the top of page 1.

 

[Len B]

I acknowledged earlier that Brett had one HoF caliber teammate on defense when he went to the Superbowl. That is the only one he has played with in his 20 year career. Aikman had Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin on offense with more likely to be added in the future along with people like Charles Haley on defense.

No one is arguing Troy Aikman is the best QB of all-time, so I'm not sure how his supporting cast matters here. Let's not bring up random QB's just so we can say make random points.

 

[Len B]

Having not checked this thread since the day after the game, I'm amazed this is at the top of page 1.

It's my fault, I re-opened it.

 

[MrBill]

OK, but stop acting like the 1 year Packers dynasty was all Brett Favre. It wasn't. He had more than enough star players on that team and while they may not have had the longevity as stars to qualify for the HOF, they were good enough at the time to be considered elite or close to it. That was an extremely talented team and the great Favre was only able to squeeze one championship out of it.


<waits for next Cowboys-aimed zinger>

Who said that? He had another HoF player on the team and a good supporting cast. That has been the point all along. It takes more than one HoF player on a team to advance deeply into the playoffs and win a Superbowl.

While Favre did only win 1 Superbowl with the Packers, they did win the most games in the NFL of any team during his 17 years as starter so he must have been doing something right.

 

[MrBill]

Oh I would LOVE to hear this list of several Patriots who are making the hall of fame from the Patriots three Super Bowl rings.

I'm calling you out on your bluff.

Here are the guys that I project will be HoF inductees from the Patriots Superbowl appearances. A couple of them might not get in but will be on the short list of nominees.

Bill Belichick
Tom Brady
Adam Vinatieri
Richard Seymour
Tedy Bruschi
Rodney Harrison
Ty Law
Randy Moss

 

[killgod]

Here are the guys that I project will be HoF inductees from the Patriots Superbowl appearances. A couple of them might not get in but will be on the short list of nominees.

Bill Belichick
Tom Brady
Adam Vinatieri
Richard Seymour
Tedy Bruschi
Rodney Harrison
Ty Law
Randy Moss

Bruschi won't and Moss didn't win any titles with us, he earned the HoF nomination before he even got to NE.

Harrison made his due in SD and I don't even think he gets in either. There's not many safetys in the Hall and he's not as good as Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins who are locks for this generation.

There's only 4 locks on that list as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't be surprised if only them got in. (Brady, BB, Vinatieri and Law)

 

[MrBill]

Bruschi won't and Moss didn't win any titles with us, he earned the HoF nomination before he even got to NE.

Harrison made his due in SD and I don't even think he gets in either. There's not many safetys in the Hall and he's not as good as Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins who are locks for this generation.

There's only 4 locks on that list as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't be surprised if only them got in. (Brady, BB, Vinatieri and Law)

I think Bruschi might just make it. There is more to his legacy as a player than just stats. Harrison was the first safety (and only?) to be in the 30/30 club (sacks/interceptions) so I think that at least draws him serious consideration. Regardless of whether or not Moss won a title with the Patriots, they would not have even been in the Superbowl that year if not for his record breaking performance that season.

So for the Patriots "glory years" you have 4 locks on your list and the other 3 guys can have a strong argument made for them and will at least make the short list of nominees.

The Packers over a 17 year period had Brett Favre and Reggie White (for 6 season).

You can take any dominant team that has won multiple Superbowls and point to at least 2 or more HoF players. The Packers had 2 for their 2 Superbowl appearances in the 90's.

 

[Senser81]

Bruschi won't and Moss didn't win any titles with us, he earned the HoF nomination before he even got to NE.

Harrison made his due in SD and I don't even think he gets in either. There's not many safetys in the Hall and he's not as good as Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins who are locks for this generation.

There's only 4 locks on that list as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't be surprised if only them got in. (Brady, BB, Vinatieri and Law)

I highly doubt Vinatieri gets in...he's been a below-average kicker IMO for the last several years. I think he could have made Canton had he continued to be even a smidge above-average, but now it seems like he misses all his big kicks.

On-topic, I think when you compare Brady & Favre to other all-time great QBs, they've probably had the worst offensive talent around them (relatively speaking). If you look at all the QBs in the HOF, nearly all of them have played with a few HOF offensive players in their lifetime. Even Brady has Moss. Sure, Javon Walker, Ahman Green, and Donald Driver were fine players, but they weren't Raymond Berry, Lenny Moore, and John Mackey.

 

[Len B]

Zero % chance Bruschi gets in. Harrison probably won't get in either, and Moss wasn't around for the Superbowls.

I'm hoping Seymour and Law get in, but we'll see.

 

[Palooza]

It's Favre's fault.

 

[MrBill]

Zero % chance Bruschi gets in. Harrison probably won't get in either, and Moss wasn't around for the Superbowls.

I'm hoping Seymour and Law get in, but we'll see.

 

[Palooza]

I think he meant the ones they were actually able to win.

 

[Rayman]

No one is arguing Troy Aikman is the best QB of all-time, so I'm not sure how his supporting cast matters here. Let's not bring up random QB's just so we can say make random points.

He's doing that for me.

Every argument I make gets a Cowboys-aimed rebuttal.

BTW, I don't see Law, Seymour and Vinatieri as sure-fire HOFs. They surely won't get inducted after the "5 year window" is up.