Sean Payton Suspended 1 Year, Saints Lose Pair of 2nd Round Picks

[Warner2BruceTD]

It's more like indicting someone for beating his wife only if he takes money for doing it. I get what you're trying to say with your example, but your example sucks.

Take away the money, and the guy is still a wife beater.

wut

 

[Maynard]

Saying "take away the money and everybody is doing it" in this situation would be like letting a wife beater off the hook by saying "take away the punches in the face, and he was just arguing with his wife like everybody else".

The money being involved is kinda the point here. That and the fact the NFL told them to cut it out and they ignored them. Cover up is always worse than the crime.

you quoted me...so i know you saw where i said i get that. Im not argueing that point at all. The money is a reason why they were punished. I get that and i i cant say i disagree with that.

So to your point....you are saying the only reason they are being punished is because they gave their players money, not for the actions that allowed them to earn money.

i totally disagree. I think the money is secondary. They are not punishing them for paying the players. They are punishing them for going after the players with the intent of injuring them. That is why i think the situation is a joke. And why i said if you take away the money, then you have the same thing on all 32 teams.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

you quoted me...so i know you saw where i said i get that. Im not argueing that point at all. The money is a reason why they were punished. I get that and i i cant say i disagree with that.

So to your point....you are saying the only reason they are being punished is because they gave their players money, not for the actions that allowed them to earn money.

i totally disagree. I think the money is secondary. They are not punishing them for paying the players. They are punishing them for going after the players with the intent of injuring them. That is why i think the situation is a joke. And why i said if you take away the money, then you have the same thing on all 32 teams.

Well, this is just wrong.

They are punishing them for running a bounty program. They are punishing them for continuing a bounty program and running a cover up after they were caught and told to stop.

They are not being punished because Gregg Williams told players to "go get 'em! Knock 'em out!". They are being punished because Gregg Williams paid players to knock 'em out. Then lied to the league when told to stop.

The assertion that this is happening in every locker room is patently ridiculous, but that's been beaten to death.

 

[bucky]

wut

A significant % of the league are "wife beaters" (hitting to hurt). You're focusing on the money being the only crime. You're indicting the "Wife Beater" only if he is being paid to do it.

I don't want to speak for Maynard, but I think his point is that their are many "Wife Beaters" in the league. Whether they get paid for it or not, they are still "Wife Beaters".

Paid = bounty.

 

[ralaw]

Gregg Williams is probably done, which is why he didn't appeal. I wonder if Goodell knew about this tape?

 

[Senser81]

A significant % of the league are "wife beaters" (hitting to hurt). You're focusing on the money being the only crime. You're indicting the "Wife Beater" only if he is being paid to do it.

I don't want to speak for Maynard, but I think his point is that their are many "Wife Beaters" in the league. Whether they get paid for it or not, they are still "Wife Beaters".

Paid = bounty.

Its like having sex with your wife, and having sex with a whore. The only difference is the money. You're only indicting the whore because she is being paid to do it!

 

[EmpireWF]

Ken Williams (Kyle's dad) issued a statement about the tapes:

"As you have seen, Kyle Williams is a man's man and has shown himself more than capable of answering on his own behalf. He has definite feelings on the subject but has chosen to remain committed to providing all his answers to any questions on the field next season. Knowing this young man's intestinal fortitude, I doubt anyone will get him to waver from his position.

"To answer the questions directed specifically to me, as a father first and foremost, I am glad to report Kyle's concussion tests have been extremely positive and we are grateful he is ready and anxious to get back to competition. Personally, suspension or not, it's probably best I'm never in a room with Gregg Williams and wonder if such an order crosses the line of the aggressive, competitive spirit we all know and love about the sport; and leans closer to a criminal act and therefore a litigious matter.

"Putting aside my fatherly feelings and putting on my sports executive hat, I have tremendous respect and admiration for the league in general, the 49ers organization and Trent Balke and Jim Harbough in particular. I have no doubt they are monitoring the situation very closely and will take the appropriate action should they deem it necessary in this matter.

"As a result of this and the fact that the singular focus for every member of the White Sox organization is on a distraction-free championship season, I won't be speaking publicly on the subject any further."

:thumbsup:

 

[dave]

Its like having sex with your wife, and having sex with a whore. The only difference is the money. You're only indicting the whore because she is being paid to do it!

I think it was Charlie Sheen who said: "You don't pay hookers for sex. You pay them to leave!"

 

[ram29jackson]

banning a guy to possibly never coach again would be hypocrisy to me here.

to add to the analogies...it like a cop seeing 6 cars speeding and only pulling over the 3rd or last car and never calling back up to pull over the others.

football motivation has always been based on aggression..and most assistants are just assistants,they survive on throwing meat to to meatheads..you are taught from early on not to try to injure someone on purpose but when you are 270 and plant your feet you can still cause pain..the league just needs to acknowledge that they have sounded an alarm,but you dont ban people for life for something like this in an environment like this.

 

[EmpireWF]

banning a guy to possibly never coach again would be hypocrisy to me here.

to add to the analogies...it like a cop seeing 6 cars speeding and only pulling over the 3rd or last car and never calling back up to pull over the others.

that's a terrible analogy

If you want a cop one...

It's like an officer informing Internal Affairs of some shady shit (that would mean rules are being broken) going down. Nothing comes of that. Everyone with the precinct in question denies any shady shit.

A year later, IA receives credible irrefutable evidence that proves the precinct not only participated in shady shit (that breaks the rules) but that managers actively attempted to cover it up and mislead the investigating body. Even after the managers were told directly by their superior (plus the league) to cut that shit out, they did not.

Then IA drops the hammer on the people involved with fines and suspensions.

 

[Bear Pand]

The funny thing is that the Niners put up like 300+ yards and 36 points on the Saints and the Niners knocked out more players than the Saints did.

Which just goes back to my main point - the cash incentives, the pregame speeches, the bounties, all that shit doesn't matter after kickoff.

Vernon Davis broke the NFL record for receiving yards by a tight end in that game. Looks like Greg Williams bounty on him didn't do shit.

Yes because pointing to a one game sample and forming a conclusion off of it makes perfect sense.

Not to mention that it's irrelevant whether or not bounties actually lead to more injuries. The Saints' behavior as an organization shouldn't be tolerated regardless. If there's been even a single injury that can be attributed to the bounty system / culture they had that's too many.

 

[BigBucs]

That auido is the nail in his coffin. He is about to get the Pete Rose treatment, one thing to hear about it but to hear it... Hope he saved some of that unearned bounty money.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

After hearing the tape ive changed my stance. I didnt think the reward for injury was so specific, as in targeting the ACL...i thought it was more along the lines of injuring someone with a clean hit...but thats not the case when you put a bullseye on a player's ACL.

 

[Senser81]

After hearing the tape ive changed my stance. I didnt think the reward for injury was so specific, as in targeting the ACL...i thought it was more along the lines of injuring someone with a clean hit...but thats not the case when you put a bullseye on a player's ACL.

This is a true "laugh my ass off" moment. After all the information that came out about this, all the points I made in response to you that were backed up by factual information, all the specific examples I provided to you...its the weak-ass audio tape that changes "your stance"????

First, what exactly was "your stance"? It seemed to change every few minutes, based on what 'argument' of yours was shot down by me.

Second, what did you think was going on with Gregg Williams and the Saints? If this audio tape was surprising to you, then what was your expectation of a Williams pre-game bounty speech?

"Hai Guise! Remember to read your keys, and always have a man over the top on the tight end. Lets play good, clean football out there. No cheap shots, don't retaliate and get a penalty. If someone gives you one, don't give one back. Oh, but if you happen to injure someone, I'll give you $1000. OK, who's going to lead the Lord's Prayer?"

This is just further evidence that you truly, truly are retarded. You evidently would run a slipshod "bounty program", too (wait, you mean I can reward someone for specific injuries? I thought that was against the bounty rules).

Also, its possible to injure a player's ACL with a clean hit, so your comment ".i thought it was more along the lines of injuring someone with a clean hit...but thats not the case when you put a bullseye on a player's ACL" is just more indication that you are retarded and have never played a down of football in your life. Of all the asinine things you've said in this thread, the biggest one to me is your belief that football players can't intentionally injure someone with a legal hit. Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

[shag773]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_gregg_williams_speech_saints_49ers_bounty_040412


Audio Link of Williams:
http://theusof.com/

Not sure what the problem is, I gave a similar speech to my 5 yo son before T-Ball practice before he took the field to play third base. Everyone hits a home run huh? Not on his watch...


On a serious note, I got the opcorn: ready for ZB's response and the callout threads in the locker room as a result. Make it good boys, I'm working a double shift today and I have a lot of time to kill...

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Also, its possible to injure a player's ACL with a clean hit, so your comment ".i thought it was more along the lines of injuring someone with a clean hit...but thats not the case when you put a bullseye on a player's ACL" is just more indication that you are retarded and have never played a down of football in your life. Of all the asinine things you've said in this thread, the biggest one to me is your belief that football players can't intentionally injure someone with a legal hit. Jesus Fucking Christ.

LOL, nice try, but I never said that.

I said it was difficult to do, not that they couldnt do it.

Have a nice day.

 

[Senser81]

LOL, nice try, but I never said that.

I said it was difficult to do, not that they couldnt do it.

Have a nice day.

Thats all you got?

I guess this is the VSN equivalent to Gregg Williams not appealing his banishment.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Thats all you got?

I guess this is the VSN equivalent to Gregg Williams not appealing his banishment.

Its pointless when all you're gonna do is misinterpret what i say to fit your jokes.

 

[ram29jackson]

that's a terrible analogy

If you want a cop one...

It's like an officer informing Internal Affairs of some shady shit (that would mean rules are being broken) going down. Nothing comes of that. Everyone with the precinct in question denies any shady shit.

A year later, IA receives credible irrefutable evidence that proves the precinct not only participated in shady shit (that breaks the rules) but that managers actively attempted to cover it up and mislead the investigating body. Even after the managers were told directly by their superior (plus the league) to cut that shit out, they did not.

Then IA drops the hammer on the people involved with fines and suspensions.

what ever dude, its still just football...and giving foul mouthed speeches to inflict pain doesnt deserve a lifetime ban,bounty or not. The truth is,football is really a dumb sport. By that i mean,its not that hard to learn or guys like this wouldnt be coaching. I dont like people with bad character either, but this aint no tragedy.

 

[JeremyHight]

what ever dude, its still just football...and giving fowl mouthed speeches to inflict pain doesnt deserve a lifetime ban,bounty or not. The truth is,football is really a dumb sport. By that i mean,its not that hard to learn or guys like this wouldnt be coaching. I dont like people with bad character either, but this aint no tragedy.

Huge difference between the acceptable norm of saying "Go out there and kill 'em", "Knock their heads off", or "Grind them into the dirt" and "This player has a bad ACL, target him there, and if you knock him out, you'll get extra money from the bounty."