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Sick in the head (Pain acknowledged and denied, in the NFL, NHL and in general)

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Well not everyone is going to get the message, and again, the crowd isn't.
The crowd will get pumped when goals are scored and the teams plays better.

Plus what if you are an away team. You fight. You lose. Obviously you just turned the crowd..but the team gets pumped win or loss with the fight?

Come on.



Saying "lets kick some ass" is not quite the same as actually showing you have the balls to go to do.
And if you get your ass kicked it still fires up the team?

Is it not inspiring to watch your associate/friend/teammate get into a physical altercation on your behalf?
No. it's fucking stupid and I'd reem him out for it because in the sports I played it was illegal and resulted in major consequences.

So no it wasn't exhilirating.

It was lame.


Are championship teams not about players who put everything on the line for the sake of winning?
Fighting isn't needed for that.

So when your team's captain is pissed off the team is dragging ass on their 3rd road game in 4 nights, says fuck this shit and drops his mitts with another team's goon to show his boys he's going to do whatever it takes to get going? There's nothing inspiring about that?
Frankly, I think it's boring. What's inspiring? Scoring a fucking goal to get us back into the game tying the game up or taking the lead.

Yell at me. Get pumped.

I'm not a neandethal. I don't need to see blood to get going. Fuck, music can pump me up.


You think 15 seconds of raving lunacy can replace that?
Some fights barely last that long.

.

Fighting in hockey is also respectful, which all non hockey fans will not understand because they simply don't know. Fighters have zero intention of seriously hurting the other fighter.

Other than the repeated blows to the face and head.
 
You think these are equal?

Do any other sports have live substitutions? No.
Does hockey have a danger of simply being on the bench? Yes.
Would that require a heighten sense of attention to the game at hand? Yes.

What sport can compare?

Baseball is the only sport that has a danger, all other sports do not.
No other sport substitutes during live play.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP19J9lYRjE"]Charlie Weis injury - YouTube[/ame]
 
WHAT IF? Who cares about what if? What is your point?

I'm saying there is no way that 95% of NFL players support H2H contact the way hockey players do fighting, no way.

And if you can't find a poll then how about ONE QUOTE from a QB or WR that doesn't support the NFL's rule changes? Just one...

Here are some former NFLers that weren't big fans of the old rules..

http://tracking.si.com/2011/12/22/report-jamal-lewis-and-dorsey-levens-among-retired-players-suing-the-nfl-over-concussions/

Listen to a game Troy Aikman does.

Also, real quick on google.

New kickoff rule(which was a safety issue) Wasn't popular

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...s-are-winning-few-fans-among-players-coaches-
 
Does hockey have a danger of simply being on the bench? Yes.
Would that require a heighten sense of attention to the game at hand? Yes.

What sport can compare?

Baseball is the only sport that has a danger, all other sports do not.
No other sport substitutes during live play.

LOL at basketball and football not being dangerous if you aren't paying attention on the bench.

Seriously?
 
They're making changes without taking something out of the game that the fans and players love.

I don't think it's hypocritical, it's a good business model.

That doesn't make any sense glen. Fans and players often love things that are not in the best interest of player safety. When you say you are trying to prevent head trauma, then allow fighting, and your stupid ass fans call Crosby a pussy for stepping away after getting his brain mushed... that's fucking hypocritical brah.
 
The crowd will get pumped when goals are scored and the teams plays better.

Plus what if you are an away team. You fight. You lose. Obviously you just turned the crowd..but the team gets pumped win or loss with the fight?

Come on.

Well yeah, the team is tired, banged up or being outplayed therefore where are the goals going to come from? The team could use something to start their adrenaline, which a fight will do. Does watching a fight not energize human adrenaline? Simple history says yes.



And if you get your ass kicked it still fires up the team?

Depends on the circumstance. If it's a leader/skill player who isn't a fighter but needs to find a way to get his team going, then it's a matter of getting behind his bravery to go toe to toe with someone who is a professional fighter for a living.

If it's your own team's fighter, then no, it can have a reverse effect. Hence why teams specifically have fighters because if they are going to fight, you don't want them to lose.


No. it's fucking stupid and I'd reem him out for it because in the sports I played it was illegal and resulted in major consequences.

So no it wasn't exhilirating.

It was lame.

Well how can you compare this to a different sport with different rules? That's fucking stupid.

Clearly that doesn't apply here.



Fighting isn't needed for that.

So what? It does exactly that and your replacement idea of speeches is illogical for the sport.


Frankly, I think it's boring. What's inspiring? Scoring a fucking goal to get us back into the game tying the game up or taking the lead.

Yell at me. Get pumped.

I'm not a neandethal. I don't need to see blood to get going. Fuck, music can pump me up.

Next time I'll tell the Leafs to bring a boom box down to the bench instead of fighting, that certainly will do the trick. The fuck?

What's inspiring about courage? Oh I don't know, courage?

Scoring a goal, sure, the team is dragging because it's exhausted and players can just magically turn it on and go score on their own? It's a team sport, you need players to help make things happen and if the team energy is down, you need to get that started.


Some fights barely last that long.

.

Point being what? How does that make your idea of a speech better? Because the length is the same? Or because all my counter points remain untouched?
 
Does fighting belong in the NHL?

Barry Melrose: Yes
There is no doubt fighting belongs in the NHL. It is a part of hockey history and has been in the game since Day One, and when used properly fighting is an effective tool in many ways.

For example, I broadcasted a recent game between the Rangers and Hurricanes in Carolina. The 'Canes came out flat and trailed 1-0 after the first period. Just 39 seconds into the second, Carolina's Jesse Boulerice got into a scrap with Rangers enforcer Chris Simon, who looked to be winning the fight. But Boulerice would not go down and got stronger as the fight went on. The building erupted.

The crowd, teams and the game were different after the fight. The Hurricanes tied the score a little more than two minutes later and eventually went on to a 3-2 victory, thanks in part to the emotional boost they got from Boulerice. There is no way they win that game without that fight.

The threat of fisticuffs is also a deterrent, a way for teams to police each other and hold each other accountable. If a player wants to go after the opponent's star players he should have to stand up and defend himself for it. A team has to protect its stars and do so in a physical manner if need be.

The threat of retaliation or retribution cuts down the slashing, whacking and other stick work. But that threat has been taken away by the instigator rule -- which calls for a minor penalty to be assessed to a player who starts a fight. As a result, players don't stand up for each other for fear of putting their team down a man and fighting is no longer used as effectively, which is why some make the argument that fighting is no longer necessary in the NHL.

Those who say fighting is just gratuitous violence don't understand the game, and they also fail to see the entertainment value in it. I've never seen anyone get up and leave an NHL game during a fight, so why do away with something exciting that can keep fans in the seats? These are the same people who are simply opposed to violence of any kind and think boxing should be outlawed, too.

And if you want to make the argument that fighting is going to hold the NHL back and prevent it from becoming anything more than a niche sport, I say hockey is past that point anyway. The game is on major networks all week and is the top draw in many big markets. Hockey may be the No. 4 sport in the United States, but it has a major presence in many areas which has not been hurt one bit by fighting.

The only thing that should be changed about fighting is the instigator rule. Teams need the ability to police each other and a player should not be penalized for trying to help his team, either by protecting the stars or swinging the momentum of the game.

Things are entirely different now than back in the days of the bench-clearing brawls in the 1970s and early 80s. With the NHL now putting four officials on the ice, no one is getting seriously hurt in fights. Fighting is an effective tool, just like a potent power play, and taking it out of the game does not make sense for the players or fans

Terry Frei: No
Fighting, at least in the traditional fashion, does not belong in the game.
I can summarize my stand in three words: It's just stupid.

Here's the deal: Ninety percent of NHL fights are moronic your-slug-vs.-my-slug sideshows. What does that have to do with "protecting" star players or with accountability? The ONLY argument that makes any sense at all is that some fans love it and it can be an attempt to swing momentum. Those are low-rent reasons.

Accountability and deterrence? Stickwork and such? OK, if it worked that way, this would be a reasonable argument. But deterrence and retribution and accountability too often are not what NHL fighting is about. At least not often enough. And even if it were, it's still silly.

Know what? In the NFL, there would be fewer roughing the passer penalties if the offense's enforcer could challenge the defensive lineman to a take off the helmets and fight, get offsetting 15-yarders and have to sit out three plays. There would be fewer defensive backs making idiots of themselves after making a big hit for an 11-yard gain if someone would challenge him to a fight for showboating.

How about if you get called for boarding, checking from behind or a high-sticking double minor, you step to the center of the ice and fight with the other team's enforcer? If you get the bejeebers kicked out of you for those kinds of penalties, they'd go down, wouldn't they? If that circus helped cut down those penalties and made the game better, let's do it!

Or if you say the fans love it? Fine. Just schedule fights. Like TV timeouts. And how about one heavyweight, one middleweight, one welterweight? That might shift momentum, too! No, there isn't spontaneity, but so what.

Yes, I'm kidding. Well, mostly. I'm just saying that fighting is a sideshow the game doesn't need, and it too often doesn't even serve the purpose it's supposed to serve.

And then you get beyond those issues. The NHL's problem often is that nobody in Topeka takes it serious. Should we care? Well, if the NHL ever is going to make inroads beyond the core, yeah, we should. We all have friends who think hockey still is guys without teeth fighting all the time, and that's because that's all they see on TV.

Until the NHL finds ways to shed that image and gain credibility in other ways, it won't make inroads. Want to remain the fourth, niche sport with knowledgeable, fanatic fans? Fine. If that's what everyone wants. But admit that never will change. The NHL can do better than that.

And maybe you don't want to hear it. But there is something wrong with sitting with your 12-year-old and telling him fighting is part of the game, and that everyone screaming for Scott Parker to bash Matt Johnson's face in is a good thing. (And, yes, I like boxing.)

The cliche that Europeans develop talent because they don't have fighting in their game is true. Meanwhile, several fights in major junior do those players a lot of good.
Get fighting out of the game, at every level, and start worrying about developing talent again.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1710488

I'm telling you asking, "Does fighting belong in Hockey?" is like asking whether God exist....your going to have firm beliefs on both sides.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8rCFe6VdPs"]Wendel Clark vs. Marty McSorely - YouTube[/ame]

Here is where a fight is used to police the situation. McSorely takes a run at Gilmour (leafs best player at the time) and lays him out. Who comes in, the captain of the team, Clark to stand up for his team.

Oh wait a second, THIS WAS A PLAYOFF GAME. 1993 conference finals.
 
So I say find me something about H2H hits being popular and you show me a kick returner who doesn't like a rule change that will put him out of a job and has nothing to do with H2H contact?
:obama:
Come on Glen.

The rule change was made on kickoffs to reduce the amount of violent hits at the point of attack. I believe the NFL did a study that a ton of low grade concussions)and some high grade ones) were happening as a result of players running 50 yards full speed at eachother then colliding.

The kick returners didn't like it..but they obviously weren't worried about player safety.

thanks for sharing the once in a blue moon example.
Maybe it doesn't happen often because players are paying attention. How often does a baseball player get nailed by a foul ball in the dug out? Once or twice a season? More? Not a lot. But the bench is still dangerous in both.



Well yeah, the team is tired, banged up or being outplayed therefore where are the goals going to come from?
Tim Tebow.











Well how can you compare this to a different sport with different rules? That's fucking stupid.
I've never watched a Hawks game. Seen a fight..and been more fired up as a result for the Hawks.

Ever.








So what? It does exactly that and your replacement idea of speeches is illogical for the sport.
Except a hockey fan already said speeches work. And players can yell at eachother on the bench.





What's inspiring about courage?

I don't see it as courageous.

I see it as stupid.





Point being what? How does that make your idea of a speech better? Because the length is the same? Or because all my counter points remain untouched?
No. You've made no counter poitns other than thatapparently hockey players and the fans are the barbarian horde and only respond to violence. 10-15 second Speeches won't work because they have to concentrate



:yawn:

I love how this is no longer about player safety but about needing to pump up players.
...when there are other ways to do it.
 
Some more notes to add to this. Listen to the crowd. That is what gets the guys going, not some stupid speech at the bench. Clark "lost" that fight, but that wasn't the point of it. So throw out that win/loss shit you guys were going on about.

Playoff fights....well covered that.

Concussion or injury from it...I'm sure Gilmour was hurting more from the hit to be honest with you.
 
Some more notes to add to this. Listen to the crowd. That is what gets the guys going, not some stupid speech at the bench. Clark "lost" that fight, but that wasn't the point of it. So throw out that win/loss shit you guys were going on about.

Playoff fights....well covered that.
Concussion or injury from it...I'm sure Gilmour was hurting more from the hit to be honest with you.

No one said a playoff fight never happened.

Just that it's incredibley rare.

Well. Covered that
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wnl3XELB9A&feature=related"]Terrell Owens greatest moment - YouTube[/ame]

Just saying, a hockey fight after the first TO BS on the star and all this crap is settled. Othr sports need to stop being pussies and drop the gloves.
 
Maybe it doesn't happen often because players are paying attention. How often does a baseball player get nailed by a foul ball in the dug out? Once or twice a season? More? Not a lot. But the bench is still dangerous in both.

Compared to regular appearances of 100mph hockey pucks (that are generally played in that direction as opposed to a foul ball which can go anywhere), sticks and skate blades.

The only real danger on a football sidelines is a coach who can't get out of the way, they are in danger of take a blade or puck to the face.

I think it's a much different level of danger and requires much greater attention for those on the bench. You can't turn away from the live action, you learn that as a kid.




Tim Tebow.

Quality rebuttal.



I've never watched a Hawks game. Seen a fight..and been more fired up as a result for the Hawks.

Ever.

Perhaps hockey isn't wrong but it just isn't for you?




Except a hockey fan already said speeches work. And players can yell at eachother on the bench.

The one hockey fan said so, therefore it's gospel?


I don't see it as courageous.

I see it as stupid.

Hockey players disagree. What's your point? Your opinion > all? Sounds like it.


No. You've made no counter poitns other than thatapparently hockey players and the fans are the barbarian horde and only respond to violence. 10-15 second Speeches won't work because they have to concentrate

Yep, those are the points. It's a violent sport, go watch golf if you don't like it.


I love how this is no longer about player safety but about needing to pump up players.
...when there are other ways to do it.

Because injuries, especially those in the thread topic, generally are responsible for a very low percentage of head injury.

There are other ways to play football, perhaps the NFL should ditch pads for flags.
 
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