soooo..moss to vikings.......v jax to new england?

[Aso]

:smh:

When Randy Moss wants to be, hes still better then EVERYONE.

Exactly.

 

[Aso]

What? Vince Jackson is easily better than Moss right now?

Because he's had 2 decent seasons?

Moss 2009:

83 catches, 1264 yards, 13 TDs.

Jacksons 2009:

68 catches, 1167 yards, 9 TDs.

Moss 2008:

68 catches, 1008 yards, 11 TDs.

Jacksons 2008:

59 catches, 1098 yards, 7 TDs.

Jackson has had 2 seasons over 1000 yards in his entire career, and they were barely over 1000. He's never caught 10 TDs.

Moss has had 3 seasons in a row over 1,000 yards and 10 TDs.

Vincent Jackson is 6'5", can run, and has had Phillip Rivers throwing to him his entire career. Why is he barely a borderline 1000 yard receiver?

He's nothing special. Every good QB in this league turns their number 1 WR into a 1000 yard / 8 TD guy.

Congratulations, you know how to look up stats.

The majority of Tom Brady's interceptions come when he's throwing to Randy Moss. Vincent Jackson also has much better hands than Randy Moss. Moss drops more passes.

From PFF: When Brady threw to Moss last year he also threw 7 interceptions along with Moss dropping 8 passes. On the opposite end of that Rivers threw 2 interceptions and Jackson dropped 2 passes. You can try and discredit the site and say it's not trustworthy because it's not affiliated with the NFL, but on the other hand none of you are either and I'm pretty sure none of you watched and broke down every play from the 2009 season.


About the stats, let's compare teams first, All last year:

Pass Attempts: Chargers 519, Patriots 592

So the Patriots threw the ball 73 more times and Moss has 15 more catches? Yes, I must say bravo. The catches stat right there definitely shows Moss is better. You got me, bro.

 

[Tailback U]

Fantasy football (and stat geeks in general) has turned a lot of average players into overrated ones because of the monster numbers when they're the lone options at their position, when in reality it doesnt translate into actual talent. I think Vincent Jackson is a nice receiver, but to even compare him with Randy is some ridiculous shit.

I agree, but the thing is, Vincent Jackson has never even come close to putting up "monster numbers."

He was 8th in the league in receiving yards last season (Moss was 2nd), and tied for 10th in the league (with 6 others) with 9 TDs, Moss was tied for 1st with 13.

Not to mention he was 30th in the league in receptions.

Screw comparing him to Randy Moss, I'd argue that he's not even a top 10 WR in the league.

 

[Esjay]

Congratulations, you know how to look up stats.

The majority of Tom Brady's interceptions come when he's throwing to Randy Moss. Vincent Jackson also has much better hands than Randy Moss. Moss drops more passes.

From PFF: When Brady threw to Moss last year he also threw 7 interceptions along with Moss dropping 8 passes. On the opposite end of that Rivers threw 2 interceptions and Jackson dropped 2 passes. You can try and discredit the site and say it's not trustworthy because it's not affiliated with the NFL, but on the other hand none of you are either and I'm pretty sure none of you watched and broke down every play from the 2009 season.


About the stats, let's compare teams first, All last year:

Pass Attempts: Chargers 519, Patriots 592

So the Patriots threw the ball 73 more times and Moss has 15 more catches? Yes, I must say bravo. The catches stat right there definitely shows Moss is better. You got me, bro.

Are you this stupid? First, you try and use the "Brady threw more interceptions when throwing to Moss, blah blah blah" .. and then turn around and use the Patriots tendency to throw the ball more both for the same argument?! Of course Moss is going to have more drops. Brady throws more interceptions when throwing to Moss because he is willing to try the defense at almost any time, Moss is that special a deep threat.

Moss is in an extremely elite class when it comes to wide receivers. LOL @ Jackson having better hands. That's just laughable. What Moss has at times is a lack of concentration, and what you have is a lack of NFL knowledge whatsoever. Stick to Madden.

 

[NAHSTE]

I agree, but the thing is, Vincent Jackson has never even come close to putting up "monster numbers."

He was 8th in the league in receiving yards last season (Moss was 2nd), and tied for 10th in the league (with 6 others) with 9 TDs, Moss was tied for 1st with 13.

Not to mention he was 30th in the league in receptions.

Screw comparing him to Randy Moss, I'd argue that he's not even a top 10 WR in the league.

That's because he isn't.

 

[Tailback U]

Congratulations, you know how to look up stats.

The majority of Tom Brady's interceptions come when he's throwing to Randy Moss. Vincent Jackson also has much better hands than Randy Moss. Moss drops more passes.

From PFF: When Brady threw to Moss last year he also threw 7 interceptions along with Moss dropping 8 passes. On the opposite end of that Rivers threw 2 interceptions and Jackson dropped 2 passes. You can try and discredit the site and say it's not trustworthy because it's not affiliated with the NFL, but on the other hand none of you are either and I'm pretty sure none of you watched and broke down every play from the 2009 season.


About the stats, let's compare teams first, All last year:

Pass Attempts: Chargers 519, Patriots 592

So the Patriots threw the ball 73 more times and Moss has 15 more catches? Yes, I must say bravo. The catches stat right there definitely shows Moss is better. You got me, bro.

This is what happens when somebody knows they are wrong but are too stubborn to admit it.

You and I both know that Moss wasn't Brady's number 1 wide receiver, Welker was.

:hahaha: "Jackson has much better hands than Moss" because Moss dropped 6 more passes on the entire year, from a source that isn't even credible.

:hahaha: "Brady throws more interceptions when throwing it to Moss." How is that Moss' fault again?

Lastly, stats do only tell so much, and I don't judge solely based on them. Moss' 2009 wasn't that much better than Jacksons statistically, but it was definitely better. So for you to say, "Jackson is easily better than Moss right now," makes no sense whatsoever.

If you want to say that Jackson is better than go right ahead, but easily better? No fucking way.

 

[NAHSTE]

TBU, save your keystrokes. Moss is one of the all-time greats, and Jackson is a fringe top 15 guy who hasn't played a down all year. That he even said that in the first place is laughable enough.

 

[Woy]

Moss shits on VJ...easily.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

I would not want Jackson. Chargers are demanding too much, he wants a big contract, he is going to miss games since he is suspended, and he has character/off field issues. Moss is still better than Jackson even though I feel Moss has lost a step.

 

[Aso]

I agree, but the thing is, Vincent Jackson has never even come close to putting up "monster numbers."

He was 8th in the league in receiving yards last season (Moss was 2nd), and tied for 10th in the league (with 6 others) with 9 TDs, Moss was tied for 1st with 13.

Not to mention he was 30th in the league in receptions.

Screw comparing him to Randy Moss, I'd argue that he's not even a top 10 WR in the league.

Your ENTIRE argument is based solely on stats. You could never have watched the NFL a day in your life and make the same argument. Using stats as a way to show is better is completely asinine. From the '08 and '09 seasons Jackson is better than Moss.

Are you this stupid? First, you try and use the "Brady threw more interceptions when throwing to Moss, blah blah blah" .. and then turn around and use the Patriots tendency to throw the ball more both for the same argument?! Of course Moss is going to have more drops. Brady throws more interceptions when throwing to Moss because he is willing to try the defense at almost any time, Moss is that special a deep threat.

Moss is in an extremely elite class when it comes to wide receivers. LOL @ Jackson having better hands. That's just laughable. What Moss has at times is a lack of concentration, and what you have is a lack of NFL knowledge whatsoever. Stick to Madden.

First if you want to say the Patriots threw the ball more as a way to discredit the INT's throw his way, well that doesn't work. Brady's 7/13 were to Moss while Rivers 2/9 were to Jackson. Jackson is also a special deep threat. He just does it a different way. Instead of straight outrunning someone he jumps up over them to make the catch. Rivers would try the defense as well the past couple of seasons with Jackson outside.

That's because he isn't.

Name 10 WR's based off last season who are better.

This is what happens when somebody knows they are wrong but are too stubborn to admit it.

You and I both know that Moss wasn't Brady's number 1 wide receiver, Welker was.

:hahaha: "Jackson has much better hands than Moss" because Moss dropped 6 more passes on the entire year, from a source that isn't even credible.

:hahaha: "Brady throws more interceptions when throwing it to Moss." How is that Moss' fault again?

Lastly, stats do only tell so much, and I don't judge solely based on them. Moss' 2009 wasn't that much better than Jacksons statistically, but it was definitely better. So for you to say, "Jackson is easily better than Moss right now," makes no sense whatsoever.

If you want to say that Jackson is better than go right ahead, but easily better? No fucking way.

lol, I'm not stubborn. I know when I am wrong and I admit when I'm wrong. But here, I don't believe I am wrong.

Ok, you and I both know Jackson wasn't Rivers number 1, Gates was. How is that bit of information even relevant?

Hahahaha yeah and you are a credible source for who is better and who isn't? They watched every play from every game last year, can you say the same? Why are you and anyone else on VSN a more credible source for who is better and who isn't than PFF?

It shows how his presence is hurting the team. How he slacks on his routes which leads to INT's. Last year Favre threw one interception when throwing to Sidney and Favre definitely just threw the ball up there for him just like Brady does for Moss.

Moss' effort is sporadic and while Jackson's is constant. Jackson has better hands, and runs more routes.

TBU, save your keystrokes. Moss is one of the all-time greats, and Jackson is a fringe top 15 guy who hasn't played a down all year. That he even said that in the first place is laughable enough.

Moss is one of the all time greats because of what he did from '98 to '04 and in '07. Not because of what he did last year.

Name 10 guys who you think is better.

 

[Woy]

Name 10 guys who you think is better.

Randy Moss
Tai Streets
Sterling Sharpe
Chris Sanders
Wayne Cherbet
Troy Brown
Az-Zahir Hakim
Brian Finneran
Marcus Robinson
Eddie Kennison

 

[Aso]

This is also coming from a forum board who by majority said Miles Austin isn't a top 10 receiver.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

How are Jacksons hands better than the guy who catches passes with his shoulder and bicep ?


Moss is on the decline. He definitely has lost a step. He certaintly will regret his poor work ethic in the coming years. His "will" is no longer the important thing as his body will not respond the way it used to.
That said physically he was that much better than everyone else it will take him awhile to completely come back down to earth. Hes got one elite season left and IMO you dont trade that unless you think your chances are slim to win a championship.

Jackson is not Moss. Jackson isnt a bad pickup by any means but the exchange is worrisome.

 

[Tailback U]

Your ENTIRE argument is based solely on stats. You could never have watched the NFL a day in your life and make the same argument. Using stats as a way to show is better is completely asinine. From the '08 and '09 seasons Jackson is better than Moss.

No, my entire argument is based on game performance, consistency, and highlight reels. Randy Moss has been dominating defensive backs for 10 years.

I like how you act like Moss' down years (05-07) have nothing to do with him in Oakland. And even then, he had 1000 yards and 8 TDs in 05 with Kerry Collins, similar to Jackson's career year with Phillip Rivers.

I bet next year you'll be saying Malcolm Floyd and Brandon Lloyd are better than Larry Fitzerald.

I still don't get how Jackson is "easily better" than Moss, or why the hell you think he's a team player who works hard. Jackson is as selfish and as much of a prick as any WR in the league.

 

[Esjay]

Ten receivers better than Vincent Jackson in the NFL today? Ok.

1. Randy Moss.
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Santonio Holmes
6. Sidney Rice
7. Miles Austin
8. Wes Welker
9. Roddy White
10. Brandon Marshall
11. Reggie Wayne

A lot of other guys that I could argue are just as good if not better. You can't name 5 wide receivers in the history of football better than Moss. Just look at what happens to the QB's he plays with.

Culpepper: had one of the best seasons of any QB ever with Randy as a wideout, did jack shit afterwards.
Had some alright seasons in Oakland, not very good compared to his Minnesota years sure. He was however catching passes from the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter.
As soon as he gets to New England, who also added other important pieces don't get me wrong, they go 16-0 and are pretty much the most dominant offense ever. Breaks the receiving td's record. Brady had never thrown more than what 28 td's in a single year? Almost completely because of Moss.

Vincent Jackson will NEVER ever strike that much fear or influence another teams strategy that much. Ever. Anyone who doesn't see this is blind.

 

[NAHSTE]

Name 10 guys who you think is better.

Okay, without even thinking, here is 11:

Andre Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Steve Smith
Randy Moss
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Anquan Boldin
Greg Jennings
Chad Ochocinco
Miles Austin
Larry Fitzgerald

 

[citizenerased]

Ten receivers better than Vincent Jackson in the NFL today? Ok.

1. Randy Moss.
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Santonio Holmes
6. Sidney Rice
7. Miles Austin
8. Wes Welker
9. Roddy White
10. Brandon Marshall
11. Reggie Wayne

A lot of other guys that I could argue are just as good if not better. You can't name 5 wide receivers in the history of football better than Moss. Just look at what happens to the QB's he plays with.

Culpepper: had one of the best seasons of any QB ever with Randy as a wideout, did jack shit afterwards.
Had some alright seasons in Oakland, not very good compared to his Minnesota years sure. He was however catching passes from the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter.
As soon as he gets to New England, who also added other important pieces don't get me wrong, they go 16-0 and are pretty much the most dominant offense ever. Breaks the receiving td's record. Brady had never thrown more than what 28 td's in a single year? Almost completely because of Moss.

Vincent Jackson will NEVER ever strike that much fear or influence another teams strategy that much. Ever. Anyone who doesn't see this is blind.

Todd Bouman had 8 touchdowns and 790 yards in three starts with Randy Moss.

:jonesy:

Todd fuckin' Bouman.

 

[Aso]

No, my entire argument is based on game performance, consistency, and highlight reels. Randy Moss has been dominating defensive backs for 10 years.

I like how you act like Moss' down years (05-07) have nothing to do with him in Oakland. And even then, he had 1000 yards and 8 TDs in 05 with Kerry Collins, similar to Jackson's career year with Phillip Rivers.

I bet next year you'll be saying Malcolm Floyd and Brandon Lloyd are better than Larry Fitzerald.

I still don't get how Jackson is "easily better" than Moss, or why the hell you think he's a team player who works hard. Jackson is as selfish and as much of a prick as any WR in the league.

Moss must be good if '07 was one of his down years. I think it's hilarious how you say your argument is based off of consistency when you are talking about Randy Moss, someone who consistently takes plays off and you base this off of highlight reels, fucking highlight reels.

Exactly Moss, actually in THE PRIME of his career didn't have amazing stats under Norv Turner. This when he was coming right off of PRIME seasons.

I never said anything about how hard he works or how selfish he is. I've never seem him work and I don't know him personally. Not something I can judge.

Ten receivers better than Vincent Jackson in the NFL today? Ok.

1. Randy Moss.
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Anquan Boldin
5. Santonio Holmes
6. Sidney Rice
7. Miles Austin
8. Wes Welker
9. Roddy White
10. Brandon Marshall
11. Reggie Wayne

A lot of other guys that I could argue are just as good if not better. You can't name 5 wide receivers in the history of football better than Moss. Just look at what happens to the QB's he plays with.

Culpepper: had one of the best seasons of any QB ever with Randy as a wideout, did jack shit afterwards.
Had some alright seasons in Oakland, not very good compared to his Minnesota years sure. He was however catching passes from the likes of Aaron Brooks and Andrew Walter.
As soon as he gets to New England, who also added other important pieces don't get me wrong, they go 16-0 and are pretty much the most dominant offense ever. Breaks the receiving td's record. Brady had never thrown more than what 28 td's in a single year? Almost completely because of Moss.

Vincent Jackson will NEVER ever strike that much fear or influence another teams strategy that much. Ever. Anyone who doesn't see this is blind.

I'm not comparing careers I'm comparing the last two seasons. So your argument is pretty much all irrelevant. Moss in '03 and '04 was better than Vincent Jackson is right now. You are indeed correct in saying that. Jackson will never be as good as Moss was in '03 and '04.

http://vsndaily.com/showthread.php?t=59275

Look at that thread, so much of VSN saying how Austin isn't among the leagues best because he had just one good season.

If you use the same logic there is no way you can put Santonio Holmes or Sidney Rice on your list. Also anyone who thinks Moss is THE best receiver in the league is ridiculous. Best career yes, best right now... No way.

You are just naming people to name people though. Having Moss no. 1 ahead of Andre Johnson among others. Santonio Holmes #5? ... The fuck?

Okay, without even thinking, here is 11:

Andre Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Steve Smith
Randy Moss
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Anquan Boldin
Greg Jennings
Chad Ochocinco
Miles Austin
Larry Fitzgerald

Chad Ochocinco has lost a step and would not put him top 10 and I'd would take V-Jax higher than some of those guys like Greg Jennings, Roddy White, and Anquan Boldin. I also don't think Marshall has played as well as he's showed he's capable of but I would still put Marshall ahead of V-Jax.

Todd Bouman had 8 touchdowns and 790 yards in three starts with Randy Moss.

:jonesy:

Todd fuckin' Bouman.

In 2003? I'm talking about 2008-2010 in my argument for who is better NOW

 

[citizenerased]

2008-2010?

You mean the period where Moss has more catches (161 to 127), more yards (2411 to 2265) and more touchdowns (27 to 16)

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

If you think Vincent Jackson is better than Anquan Boldin or Roddy White, you either don't watch football, or you have no fucking clue.


This thread is amazing. What the hell has Vincent Jackson ever done? Forget Moss, that's just laughable, stupid, and not even worthy of debate. But to even call him better than Boldin is beyond retarded.