The 2011 Tim Tebow Tracking Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

By running it more he would be turning it over less. Tebow would have an obscene amount of INT if he threw as much as Orton did.

astounding

 

[ZoneBlitz]

I don't think you get it.

This is not meant to be condescending, but, have you watched the Broncos this year?

They completely revamped the offense to suit Tebow's skill set. He is not running the Orton offense. They are not simply handing the ball off more than they were before. You are simplifying the situation. They are essentially running a college style offense, low risk, grind it out, safe passing game. Orton could not run this offense. Just like Tebow could not run the Orton offense. Saying Denver would have had the same success under Orton by simply running more is false. The schematic change had a lot to do with it. And Orton can not run this scheme.

I saw all of the game vs Miami and most of the others except for today.

I agree there is a schematic change and Orton wouldnt be able to run or pose the threat of running, both of which has helped Denver's run game.

However Orton wasnt given the right situation to succeed when they were throwing the ball 45 times a game and playing shitty defense.

Just like the Wildcat was effective for a while until teams caught on, teams will eventually catch up to the schematic change under Tebow and Denver wont continue to win when completing 2 passes.

 

[NAHSTE]

I just shake my head.

People consumed with statistics just don't get it and clearly never will.

It's like I said pages ago in this thread, it's not about statistics with Tebow. He will never have good looking statistics. He is the most unique player the league has seen in decades. He plays the QB position in such a way that evaluating him on stats makes no sense. Half the plays Denver runs with Tebow are designed QB runs. The passing plays are single read with one check down. He will never go 25-31 with 350 yards. The offense is not designed that way, and frankly, he cant do that anyway.

Bottom line is he produces TD's at a better than average rate, doesn't turn the ball over, and the team is 3-1. Kyle f'n Orton can throw for 300 meanigless yards all game long, but if he fails to get the team in the end zone, and turns the ball over, the team loses.

TD's + no TO's = wins. Doesn't matter how you achieve that.

...and anyone who fails to buy into the idea that a player can have a winning intangible, or that a player can make people around him better & play harder, has never played competitive sports.

In short, whatever works. But as Zoneblitz has said, this is not a sustainable winning strategy. Eventually he's going to have to give Denver some semblance of a passing game in order to beat quality teams. He doesn't have to throw for 300 yards, but it'd be nice if he could crack the century mark.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I saw all of the game vs Miami and most of the others except for today.

I agree there is a schematic change and Orton wouldnt be able to run or pose the threat of running, both of which has helped Denver's run game.

However Orton wasnt given the right situation to succeed when they were throwing the ball 45 times a game and playing shitty defense.

Just like the Wildcat was effective for a while until teams caught on, teams will eventually catch up to the schematic change under Tebow and Denver wont continue to win when completing 2 passes.

To expand on the scheme, and how it has improved Denver's running game, consider this.

Denver ran for 244 yards at a 4.4 average. They ran out of the shotgun 19 times, which is obscene in an NFL offense. They used four different positions (HB, QB, FB, FL) and six different players in those 19 runs, keeping the defense off balance. The long TD pass to Decker was out of the shotgun as well, a play that was set up by pounding the ball over and over out of that formation. The Tebow TD run was also out of the shotgun.

This scheme is why Denver is able to run the ball better under Tebow as opposed to Orton. They are essentially letting Tebow run the offense he ran in college.

Now, when you combine a grind it out running game that keeps the clock moving, and eliminate turnovers (Tebow has ONE INT in over 100 pass attempts, which is a league leading INT%, so it's not just "he doesn't throw the ball so doesn't throw INT's"), why is anybody surprised that the defense has played so much better? I'll tell you why.

It's a fucking illusion. It's the same defense. The same players. But when you don't turn it over, play the field position game, burn the clock, and keep the D off the field, well, you get it. Tebow does help the defense, where as Orton was killing the defense.

Will the league catch up? Probably. They always do. But I think Orton vs. Tebow has been put to bed for good. It's not even close, really.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Not to mention that Orton is one of the worst red zone and third down QBs in the league... Not like that matters or anything.

And on the flip side, Tebow, along with Cam Newton, has been one of the most dangerous QB's in the red zone this season. Those guys are a nightmare to defend in side the ten, and have produced scores.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

To expand on the scheme, and how it has improved Denver's running game, consider this.

Denver ran for 244 yards at a 4.4 average. They ran out of the shotgun 19 times, which is obscene in an NFL offense. They used four different positions (HB, QB, FB, FL) and six different players in those 19 runs, keeping the defense off balance. The long TD pass to Decker was out of the shotgun as well, a play that was set up by pounding the ball over and over out of that formation. The Tebow TD run was also out of the shotgun.

This scheme is why Denver is able to run the ball better under Tebow as opposed to Orton. They are essentially letting Tebow run the offense he ran in college.

Now, when you combine a grind it out running game that keeps the clock moving, and eliminate turnovers (Tebow has ONE INT in over 100 pass attempts, which is a league leading INT%, so it's not just "he doesn't throw the ball so doesn't throw INT's"), why is anybody surprised that the defense has played so much better? I'll tell you why.

It's a fucking illusion. It's the same defense. The same players. But when you don't turn it over, play the field position game, burn the clock, and keep the D off the field, well, you get it. Tebow does help the defense, where as Orton was killing the defense.

Will the league catch up? Probably. They always do. But I think Orton vs. Tebow has been put to bed for good. It's not even close, really.

But its not just about who is the better QB Tebow vs Orton...like you said, Denver has installed a completely new system for Tebow. Maybe this system is just pretty good, and should be used more often? I have always wondered why teams dont take a page from college football with the spread offense & option game. Cam Newton has had great success by playing a similar offense to the one he did in college, and he has been wildly more successful than Tebow. There are many QB's who could run the Tebow system much better than Tebow is running it, Orton just isnt one of them.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

But its not just about who is the better QB Tebow vs Orton...like you said, Denver has installed a completely new system for Tebow. Maybe this system is just pretty good, and should be used more often? I have always wondered why teams dont take a page from college football with the spread offense & option game. Cam Newton has had great success by playing a similar offense to the one he did in college, and he has been wildly more successful than Tebow. There are many QB's who could run the Tebow system much better than Tebow is running it, Orton just isnt one of them.

What I meant by Tebow vs. Orton being put to bed, is that it's now becoming obvious that Tebow was the better option at QB for this team, which has been a long running theme on the site for a few years now.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Names please...

Any QB that is mobile and that can actually throw the ball....Cam Newton, Vince Young, Mike Vick, etc.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

What I meant by Tebow vs. Orton being put to bed, is that it's now becoming obvious that Tebow was the better option at QB for this team, which has been a long running theme on the site for a few years now.

If the Broncos keep winning ill have to agree to that. I dont know they can keep winning like this though.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Any QB that is mobile and that can actually throw the ball....Cam Newton, Vince Young, Mike Vick, etc.

Maybe the first two, but i'm not so sure about Vick, only because Vick is more of a speedy broken play/scambler type of runner, while Tebow is a more powerful runner who does his work off of designed plays. Not sure Vick could hold up running power sweeps and pounding the 2-hole.

That's what makes Tebow unique, he's not what I would call a mobile QB, he's essentially a second HB lining up at QB. He's just...different. Denver is playing single wing, it's ridiculous.

 

[ZoneBlitz]

Maybe the first two, but i'm not so sure about Vick, only because Vick is more of a speedy broken play/scambler type of runner, while Tebow is a more powerful runner who does his work off of designed plays.

That's what makes Tebow unique, he's not what I would call a mobile QB, he's essentially a second HB lining up at QB. He's just...different. Denver is playing single wing, it's ridiculous.

I agree. Vick would have to be used more like the Oregon offense where his option to run takes him outside. He actually ran those plays briefly while with the Falcons.

 

[FirstTimer]

Maybe the first two, but i'm not so sure about Vick, only because Vick is more of a speedy broken play/scambler type of runner, while Tebow is a more powerful runner who does his work off of designed plays. Not sure Vick could hold up running power sweeps and pounding the 2-hole.

The ole Sandsuky Single Wing

 

[NAHSTE]

Maybe the first two, but i'm not so sure about Vick, only because Vick is more of a speedy broken play/scambler type of runner, while Tebow is a more powerful runner who does his work off of designed plays. Not sure Vick could hold up running power sweeps and pounding the 2-hole.

That's what makes Tebow unique, he's not what I would call a mobile QB, he's essentially a second HB lining up at QB. He's just...different. Denver is playing single wing, it's ridiculous.

Tebow is not even like a halfback. He's basically Mike Alstott with a slightly better arm. But yeah Vick is not built for the pounding that this offense requires. He's built more like a WR at 6'2, 200. Newton would absolutely shred in this system though. I don't think there's any question that had he stayed at Florida and run that offense he'd have shattered Tebow's single season marks.

 

[manchild24]

all I know is Tebow gets me 15-20 fantasy points in Yahoo and the guy I drafted (Josh Freeman who Ive dropped) is avg about 4 points

And all they is WINS is what matters and what are the Broncos 3-1 with Timmy in there. Maybe with a full offseason and some work he may turn into a better passing QB, who knows

 

[FirstTimer]

Maybe with a full offseason and some work he may turn into a better passing QB, who knows

 

[manchild24]

what does that sig mean?

 

[FirstTimer]

what does that sig mean?

BF3

 

[manchild24]

BF3

yeah I saw that, I thought it meant something to my comment because there was nothing there. Im a MW3 guy. Got it Thursday and i love it.

 

[FirstTimer]

yeah I saw that, I thought it meant something to my comment because there was nothing there. Im a MW3 guy. Got it Thursday and i love it.

Look at your name in the quoted comment...

 

[Rayman]

Hypothetical - If Tebow gets hurt mid-game, what does Denver do? Surely they can't change a gameplan up unless they've been practicing it?