The General Wrestling Thread

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Punk never deserved the top spot over Cena.

That's hard to swallow, but it's true.

I think Bryan's ceiling is higher than Punk's.

Punk is a proven draw, I am not sure why you'd say that in 2013.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm not sure what you don't get...yes, he already beat Cena...that moment made him...putting him back into the chase again isn't going to make him bigger than he just was made.

This technique of thinking that having the babyface re-chase after getting there just doesn't work in getting the talent over more than he already was...they've tried it several times and it just hasn't gotten people there.

This is a similar program to the one with Punk after SummerSlam 2011, just take out Del Rio and Kevin Nash and input Randy Orton and the Shield with HHH still involved. Punk re-chasing didn't make him a bigger star than he was when he already beat the top guy. Its really that simple. You're essentially replaying the chase with less meaningful characters.

To dumb it down, its like on Dexter when they tried to re-capture the magic of Doakes with Joey Quinn.

You are way overthinking this.

The babayface overcoming the odds and vanquishing the heels in the end is the most basic wrestling story that exists.

Also, these are not "lesser players". It's the god damn McMahons. Orton means nothing. Could be Swagger or Big Show or Sheamus or Santino in that role. He's just the guy Bryan already tapped. Nothing more. This is Bryan vs McMahons. It doesn't get any bigger than that.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Punk is a proven draw, I am not sure why you'd say that in 2013.

Punk is Randy Savage to Cena's Hogan.

Savage was great, a fine draw, and Punk, like Savage, is the guy people will talk about 20 years from now.

But Savage wasn't Hogan. And Punk isn't Cena.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I think we're talking apples and oranges with that Punk vs. HHH/Nash/Del Rio shitshow and this one. I don't think you guys can honestly say that they are the same. You and I both know this one has already been done WAY better.

It can't be apples to oranges when it really is the same damn feud.

You could say its Royal Gala Apples to Granny Smith Apples, sure...but its essentially the same, eerily, actually.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

You are way overthinking this.

The babayface overcoming the odds and vanquishing the heels in the end is the most basic wrestling story that exists.

Also, these are not "lesser players". It's the god damn McMahons. Orton means nothing. Could be Swagger or Big Show or Sheamus or Santino in that role. He's just the guy Bryan already tapped. Nothing more. This is Bryan vs McMahons. It doesn't get any bigger than that.

This is where I disagree...this program ("McMahon versus) has been done to death and hasn't really been important in over a decade.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

It can't be apples to oranges when it really is the same damn feud.

You could say its Royal Gala Apples to Granny Smith Apples, sure...but its essentially the same, eerily, actually.

Its not the same at all. That Punk stuff was secondary stuff. This Bryan program is the top program, and he is the top babyface with the top program built around him.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Punk is Randy Savage to Cena's Hogan.

Savage was great, a fine draw, and Punk, like Savage, is the guy people will talk about 20 years from now.

But Savage wasn't Hogan. And Punk isn't Cena.

That doesn't mean that you can't put Punk or Savage in the top spot nor aren't deserving...both guys have been in the top spot and drew quite well. Its like saying Okada shouldn't be in the top spot because he's not Tanahashi.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This is where I disagree...this program ("McMahon versus) has been done to death and hasn't really been important in over a decade.

So who should he be feuding with?

Heyman's guys are occupied with Punk. Below Bryan's program, btw.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I was pretty annoyed at how it all went down last night, but I agree with Warner and FedEx here, this isnt hurting Bryan one bit. If anything its only making him even popular amongs the the regular mouth breathers in the crowd who now are 100% behind him if they werent already, not just the internet smarks. The fact that he lost the belt is irrelevant because the belt means nothing. The OWNER of the company, the COO, the COO`s wife, are all trying to hold this man down and he is going to end up prevailing in the end. Im not saying they cant fuck this one up, but to me it seems like proper booking. They dont seem to be going with a half-hearted McMahon feud, they appear to be going all the way with this one. I think this will do good for Bryan. He is much better in the chasing position anyways, and it appears it will also help him knock the comedy act.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

That doesn't mean that you can't put Punk or Savage in the top spot nor aren't deserving...both guys have been in the top spot and drew quite well. Its like saying Okada shouldn't be in the top spot because he's not Tanahashi.

But Okada is 24 and can be Tanahashi (or better). That's building the next guy.

Savage was fine on top, did great. When Hogan came back, well, that was that.

It's not a knock to Savage or Punk to say they aren't Hogan or Cena.

 

[SuperKevin]

The only way I can see this getting fucked up is if they immediately re-insert Cena into the #1 babyface role when he comes back in 4 months. That will essentially prove that Bryan was just keeping the seat warm while Cena was recovering.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This is by far the most buzz worthy program WWE has done in a long time. Anxious to see the rating tomorrow.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Its not the same at all. That Punk stuff was secondary stuff. This Bryan program is the top program, and he is the top babyface with the top program built around him.

Methinks your memory is shotty

That was their lead program until the end of October and a month after that, Punk won the title back and was main eventing PPVs.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Methinks your memory is shotty

That was their lead program until the end of October and a month after that, Punk won the title back and was main eventing PPVs.

Cena was the champion and main eventing when Punk was feuding with Nash & Trips, no?

 

[JimLeavy59]

Cena was the champion and main eventing when Punk was feuding with Nash & Trips, no?

I clearly remember Punk and HHH main eventing a PPV.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I clearly remember Punk and HHH main eventing a PPV.

Night of Champions was Cena vs Del Rio for the WWE title, I know that for a fact.

I dont remember what the next month was.

Besides, I have no idea what this has to do with this current angle. There is no Cena around now, and Bryan is clearly, without question, the top babyface at this moment, and in the top money drawing program. The Punk/Nash thing was poop, they misread that one. This Bryan program is $$$.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

But Okada is 24 and can be Tanahashi (or better). That's building the next guy.

Savage was fine on top, did great. When Hogan came back, well, that was that.

It's not a knock to Savage or Punk to say they aren't Hogan or Cena.

We're dissolving this to different conversations...What New Japan is doing with Okada is no different than what the WWE did with Punk today or Savage in the 80's...its trying to make another guy...and its worked for all parties involved. Just because you may not hit the same peak as another guy, making another guy is vital to the top guy retaining his drawing power.

Wasn't there just an article on VoW that basically put this into numerical form? I mean, Cena is losing a bit of his steam...Punk has been a proven draw.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Night of Champions was Cena vs Del Rio for the WWE title, I know that for a fact.

I dont remember what the next month was.

Besides, I have no idea what this has to do with this current angle. There is no Cena around now, and Bryan is clearly, without question, the top babyface at this moment, and in the top money drawing program. The Punk/Nash thing was poop, they misread that one. This Bryan program is $$$.

Clearly not. HHH and Punk were the main event of that show.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Cena was the champion and main eventing when Punk was feuding with Nash & Trips, no?

Punk and HHH main evented Night of Champions
Punk/Cena/Del Rio main evented Hell in a Cell
Cena/Del Rio main evented Vengeance - Punk/HHH had a mid-card match versus AwesomeTruth.
TheRock/Cena v. AwesomeTruth headlined Survivor Series and Punk beat Del Rio for the title in the semi-main.
Punk/Miz/Del Rio main evented TLC
Punk/Ziggler was the semi-main event of the Royal Rumble (Rumble was the main event)
Cena/Kane main evented Elimination Chamber.
Then WrestleMania.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I never said Punk wasn't a draw. I said he wasn't at the same level as Cena. Similar to how Savage never matched Hogan.

Where I think Okada differs, is I think he has a real chance to surpass Tanahashi. Doesn't mean it will happen.

And I happen to think Bryan has a higher ceiling than Punk.

I don't know, I just don't see how being positioned as the top guy in the top program with the top heels is a step backwards. In my opinion, this is the best job they've done elevating someone in a long time. You want to look at steps backwards, look at Ziggler.