The General Wrestling Thread

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Just caught up with RAW. Man, they better stop focusing on Big Show and burying Daniel Bryan. He'll never get over or be a star at this rate:

Can we get back to reality, please? Dude is over as fuck. He's Jason Vorhees. He's teflon. Stop worrying about Daniel Bryan. He's a top 1%'er, you can't kill him no matter how much Big Show cries.

BIG SHOW DOESN'T MATTER. CODY RHODES DOESN'T MATTER.

These are subplots. A three hour show can't be about one guy. RAW didn't center around Stone Cold for two hours.

I have no idea why you keep saying these things on this forum...no one is saying Bryan is being buried on this forum. But, you were told from jump street...this storyline won't make Bryan more over than he was when he beat Cena...which was "top 1%'r"..."teflon"...whatever...he was already at the moon. And, you were told this program was going to be the drizzling shits...which it is.

They are using Bryan to elevate shit around him...whatever they are doing with Triple H and the McMahons...the annual Big Show push...Cody Rhodes...and other jobbers they are throwing in the mix to balance the good guys and the bad guys.

 

[FedEx227]

Yeah, don't argue with morons on F4W here. We've never said buried.

I had no qualms about last night's show. They split the Big Show/Cody angle and Daniel Bryan as they should've done a long time ago. Bryan is on his own as the rallying point for the rest of the roster. They were using Bryan to build Show/Cody which they clearly did, now that they are over and people are into their stories, they are done tying it directly to Bryan's chase and that's fine.

My biggest gripe was using Bryan's heat to get Big Show's crying over, you said he was just a "road block" and my argument was it was less road block and more of an intertwined subplot which if it continued would take focus off of Bryan.

They split them thankfully so I'm good now.

 

[FedEx227]

Wrestlers Age vs Star Ratings: Who has the brightest future?

Statistical analysis by Chris "mookieghana" Harringotn

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/20...vs-star-ratings-who-has-the-brightest-future/

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I gotta be honest though...when Heyman gave Ryback a kiss on the cheek, I lost it.

I get the feeling the Heyman is really loving what he is doing now, and he's just kind of in the back going "well, I can make him...oh...no, I can make him, too" and basically getting carte blanche to work with anyone to help get them over.

Ryback pushing Paul E. around in a wheelchair is the most interesting thing Ryback has ever done. Its fucking hilarious.

 

[krulmichael]

I gotta be honest though...when Heyman gave Ryback a kiss on the cheek, I lost it.

I get the feeling the Heyman is really loving what he is doing now, and he's just kind of in the back going "well, I can make him...oh...no, I can make him, too" and basically getting carte blanche to work with anyone to help get them over.

Ryback pushing Paul E. around in a wheelchair is the most interesting thing Ryback has ever done. Its fucking hilarious.

Can never get enough Heyman. That promo was great as usual. Although I'm not sure how much longer Axel will be a Heyman guy after Paul essentially called him out.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I have no idea why you keep saying these things on this forum...no one is saying Bryan is being buried on this forum. But, you were told from jump street...this storyline won't make Bryan more over than he was when he beat Cena...which was "top 1%'r"..."teflon"...whatever...he was already at the moon. And, you were told this program was going to be the drizzling shits...which it is.

They are using Bryan to elevate shit around him...whatever they are doing with Triple H and the McMahons...the annual Big Show push...Cody Rhodes...and other jobbers they are throwing in the mix to balance the good guys and the bad guys.

Yeah, don't argue with morons on F4W here. We've never said buried.

I had no qualms about last night's show. They split the Big Show/Cody angle and Daniel Bryan as they should've done a long time ago. Bryan is on his own as the rallying point for the rest of the roster. They were using Bryan to build Show/Cody which they clearly did, now that they are over and people are into their stories, they are done tying it directly to Bryan's chase and that's fine.

My biggest gripe was using Bryan's heat to get Big Show's crying over, you said he was just a "road block" and my argument was it was less road block and more of an intertwined subplot which if it continued would take focus off of Bryan.

They split them thankfully so I'm good now.

This thread is loaded with "Bryan looks like a bitch", "He won't be elevated", etc.

There is no "buried" narrative here like twitter or other places, but what I find fascinating is that everybody seems so let down by this storyline. When have WWE storylines ever been good? They're always terrible. Guys have been getting over in spite of complete shit for decades now. What great storyline has John Cena ever been involved in?

I think people really like Bryan, and are annoyed at the soap opera crap because of that. WWE stories have been soap opera crap forever, people just don't care as much when cartoon character John Cena is involved.

 

[FedEx227]

That's essentially what my argument was on the podcast. You have a guy who can turn any shit you give him into something super successful because he's so good. He got over wearing generic tights and just doing moves, that's all you need to do. Instead, it seems like they try to go to these great lengths to get him over with elaborate, convoluted storylines when fuck, the dude is already over. Just let him be, go simple and save the elaborate shit for guys that don't have nearly the talent he does (Cena for one).

The angle could've been as simple as "Daniel, you're a B+, we want As" then Bryan just keeps beating dudes proving how good he is, until they have no choice but to give him another title shot or the rest of the wrestlers do a strike or some shit until HHH gives him another shot. That's really ALL you needed IMO.

I get it though, it's WWE. This is what they do. So, it's whatever really. I enjoyed yesterday's show a lot.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

This thread is loaded with "Bryan looks like a bitch", "He won't be elevated", etc.

There is no "buried" narrative here like twitter or other places, but what I find fascinating is that everybody seems so let down by this storyline. When have WWE storylines ever been good? They're always terrible. Guys have been getting over in spite of complete shit for decades now. What great storyline has John Cena ever been involved in?

I think people really like Bryan, and are annoyed at the soap opera crap because of that. WWE stories have been soap opera crap forever, people just don't care as much when cartoon character John Cena is involved.

I don't understand how you think he could be elevated anymore than he was after he beat Cena. He was already a made man. If this were Madden, he'd already be a 99 OVR. The only question that remained is could he be a legitimate draw at the top of the card...which, we will need to verify by having him headline pay per views over a longer period and not just pop a rating or a singular event buys. Which, is easier to tell if you're the champ...instead of always chasing...have Bryan as the champ go against a bunch of opponents, see if he's a legit draw...see if you can give him the ball full time. Having him continue to mess with this silly storyline doesn't answer that question.

And, no one is let down...you were the guy spouting off about how this storyline will elevate Daniel Bryan, etc. I knew from jump street it was going to be terrible. I can't recall the last time the WWE stuck a landing on a fall program. They've had some good concepts, too...but never have stuck the landing at this time of the year. Its like clockwork.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't understand how you think he could be elevated anymore than he was after he beat Cena. He was already a made man. If this were Madden, he'd already be a 99 OVR. The only question that remained is could he be a legitimate draw at the top of the card...which, we will need to verify by having him headline pay per views over a longer period and not just pop a rating or a singular event buys. Which, is easier to tell if you're the champ...instead of always chasing...have Bryan as the champ go against a bunch of opponents, see if he's a legit draw...see if you can give him the ball full time. Having him continue to mess with this silly storyline doesn't answer that question.

And, no one is let down...you were the guy spouting off about how this storyline will elevate Daniel Bryan, etc. I knew from jump street it was going to be terrible. I can't recall the last time the WWE stuck a landing on a fall program. They've had some good concepts, too...but never have stuck the landing at this time of the year. Its like clockwork.

He is being elevated. A blind man should be able to see that. He's over more & more every week.

Like most WWE pushes that work, they are arriving there backwards & accidentally. But they are arriving there.

He shouldn't be champion yet. Way too soon for that. Chase hasn't gone on nearly long enough. They've played the Dusty finish card as many times as they can now, though. Can't keep pulling that shit moving forward. The next time he wins it, he needs to keep it. I'd wait till Rumble or Mania for maximum impact.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I will say this.

The storyline has worked in the sense that for the first time in a long, long time they have managed to work the smarks into a tizzy.

Twitter breaks every Monday because people are fucking pissed at how Bryan keeps getting screwed. You've all been worked by Triple H. He's the best heel they've had in years.

 

[FedEx227]

Totally agreed. And I'm not with Larry, I think he's being elevated albeit by complete accident.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

He is being elevated. A blind man should be able to see that. He's over more & more every week.

Like most WWE pushes that work, they are arriving there backwards & accidentally. But they are arriving there.

He shouldn't be champion yet. Way too soon for that. Chase hasn't gone on nearly long enough. They've played the Dusty card as many times as they can now, though. Can't keep pulling that shit moving forward. The next time he wins it, he needs to keep it. I'd wait till Rumble or Mania for maximum impact.

Based on what?

He was already massively over after he beat Cena...the buzz meter hasn't gone up any more since. The reaction to Night of Champions was quite telling...he won the belt, the show went off air, and no one thought he was going to keep it once RAW ended. And he didn't. In what way could they "elevate" Bryan more than having him win the title clean, TWICE...having him win it a third time, clean...you're running around on a circle track. You're running to get to the same place over and over again.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

They are walking a fine line with the dusty finishes. No argument from me.

Historically dusty finishes work great...when spaced out and done sparingly. They work so great, Dusty kept doing them over & over...and we all know how that ended.

If they peak this at Rumble (or better yet, Mania), it's a god damn grand slam home run. But they better do something fresh in the interim, because weekly beatdowns & dusty finishes can't go on for another 3-6 months.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I think you and Fed confuse my point...or are underrating how over he was after he beat Cena.

You guys are making it seem like I think Bryan isn't being elevated...and to a point...he's not...and its not because of this storyline...its because I already think he's elevated as high as he'll go chasing the title. He's already at the top with no more glass ceilings. My problem is that having him run around the track chasing, over and over again (and winning the title over and over), doesn't answer the question of whether or not he's a legitimate big time draw. I happen to think he is, so I'd prefer to not keep the question lingering and give him the ball like Steve Austin.

 

[FedEx227]

For context though, Austin didn't have the ball very long.

He won at WrestleMania, defended against Dude Love at Over the Edge and Unforgiven. Lost at King of the Ring, won it back the next night, defended against Undertaker at SummerSlam, lost at Breakdown and didn't get it back until WrestleMania XV.

I get what you're trying to say though but I'd argue Austin never really had the ball for long.

I just enjoyed the fact that title or not he was the sole focal point. And Warner, go back and watch those Austin raws, he was on every fucking segment, it's actually really bad when you go back and watch it. Austin walking backstage, AUSTIN HAS ARRIVED, HES IN HIS LOCKER ROOM, INTERVIEW, AUSTIN IS BACKSTAGE AND ANGRY! But, shit, the rocket was strapped to him.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

And Warner, go back and watch those Austin raws, he was on every fucking segment, it's actually really bad when you go back and watch it. Austin walking backstage, AUSTIN HAS ARRIVED, HES IN HIS LOCKER ROOM, INTERVIEW, AUSTIN IS BACKSTAGE AND ANGRY! But, shit, the rocket was strapped to him.

In that sense, yes.

Put business aside for a second. Do we really want that again? I mean, I understand why they did that (WWE subtly hammer), but from an aesthetic standpoint those shows were the fucking pits unless you were ages 12-15. For all of the complaints about modern WWE, i'll take these shows over Attitude Era RAW's 100 times out of 100.

Also, Austin was the first guy where they didn't feel like they needed to have the title on the guy in order for them to have the ball. I'd argue Bryan has the ball right now.

 

[FedEx227]

No, absolutely would prefer what we're getting now. Those Attitude Era shows were great when I was 12, I can barely watch them these days.

I have no more complaints after last night, I think they have everything on a really awesome path and made up for a lot of mistakes I thought they made over the past few weeks.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

For context though, Austin didn't have the ball very long.

He won at WrestleMania, defended against Dude Love at Over the Edge and Unforgiven. Lost at King of the Ring, won it back the next night, defended against Undertaker at SummerSlam, lost at Breakdown and didn't get it back until WrestleMania XV.

I get what you're trying to say though but I'd argue Austin never really had the ball for long.

I just enjoyed the fact that title or not he was the sole focal point. And Warner, go back and watch those Austin raws, he was on every fucking segment, it's actually really bad when you go back and watch it. Austin walking backstage, AUSTIN HAS ARRIVED, HES IN HIS LOCKER ROOM, INTERVIEW, AUSTIN IS BACKSTAGE AND ANGRY! But, shit, the rocket was strapped to him.

Austin had the ball for 6 months in an era when no one else had the ball longer than two and no one held it longer than that 180 days (not really counting that Kane day as a split of Austin's run) until like...2004. The second longest reign was Austin in 2001 at 175 days.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

In that sense, yes.

Put business aside for a second. Do we really want that again? I mean, I understand why they did that (WWE subtly hammer), but from an aesthetic standpoint those shows were the fucking pits unless you were ages 12-15. For all of the complaints about modern WWE, i'll take these shows over Attitude Era RAW's 100 times out of 100.

Also, Austin was the first guy where they didn't feel like they needed to have the title on the guy in order for them to have the ball. I'd argue Bryan has the ball right now.

It was an era where they had a lot of guys that were over and didn't need the title...Austin, Rock, Foley, Undertaker...and they all just kind of played around with having the title...but of that group, it was Austin who got the title longer and was pushed hardest with the title. I need to re-check the list, but IIRC, when Austin was healthy and happy, they never went much longer than 6 months without putting the title back on Austin. It might have even been a shorter duration than that.

Of that "group" at the top in the Attitude Era the only guy I felt needed the title to be relevant was HHH, FWIW, and he didn't get involved in the title picture until late in the Era. His first title run was what...late 99...and I believe Austin was injured.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I just enjoyed the fact that title or not he was the sole focal point. And Warner, go back and watch those Austin raws, he was on every fucking segment, it's actually really bad when you go back and watch it. Austin walking backstage, AUSTIN HAS ARRIVED, HES IN HIS LOCKER ROOM, INTERVIEW, AUSTIN IS BACKSTAGE AND ANGRY! But, shit, the rocket was strapped to him.

Austin was fucking everywhere on those RAW IS WARs. They would have "Austin Watch" every Monday. They'd wait for the pick up to show up...because OH DAMN...AUSTIN'S GONNA BE PISSED WHEN HE FINDS OUT WHAT MCMAHON HAD TO SAY AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW TONIGHT!! They'd open, close nearly every 15m segment with some sort of AUSTIN WATCH.