The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

Would New Japan style booking with an emphasis on match results that rewards the viewer for remembering things, but with a heel/face/tweener dynamic and just enough wackiness like Prince Devitt the prick & Toru Yano & Yujiro the pervert etc work on some level in the US? I'm not talking challenge WWE, I'm talking at a level above TNA that actually fills a niche and makes money?

I'm not talking 90's All Japan pure sport, here. New Japan clearly isn't that. Its a blend of everything.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Would New Japan style booking with an emphasis on match results that rewards the viewer for remembering things, but with a heel/face/tweener dynamic and just enough wackiness like Prince Devitt the prick & Toru Yano & Yujiro the pervert etc work on some level in the US? I'm not talking challenge WWE, I'm talking at a level above TNA that actually fills a niche and makes money?

I'm not talking 90's All Japan pure sport, here. New Japan clearly isn't that. Its a blend of everything.

So, basically, what you're asking is...will a wrestling show that makes sense work in the United States?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say...yes.

New Japan is what a secondary American promotion should have directed itself toward post-WCW. The WWE fills the niche of the pure sports entertainment...and New Japan is sports entertainment, too...but it doesn't forget the "sports" aspect of the show. It still presents itself as a real sports based competition. The WWE forgot that concept decades ago and I think there is still a major niche of the wrestling market share that would tune into it. It might be more regional...but I think I think it could gain a bigger piece of the market share (even as a crossover) than say, TNA has in a decade of being around.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

There have never been less overall people watching wrestling on a weekly basis on TV & at arenas in the United States/Canada then there have been since the territories died, and then WCW.

Is it too late to get all of those lost viewers back? Do they even exist anymore?

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

There have never been less overall people watching wrestling on a weekly basis on TV & at arenas in the United States/Canada then there have been since the territories died, and then WCW.

Is it too late to get all of those lost viewers back? Do they even exist anymore?

You can't get all of those viewers back and they exist, but getting them back is going to be very difficult. Those Southern Territory fans never came back after WCW died and some hotbeds of wrestling never bounced back after their territory went out of business or were gobbled up by Vince.

 

[s@ppisgod]

Austin was fucking everywhere on those RAW IS WARs. They would have "Austin Watch" every Monday. They'd wait for the pick up to show up...because OH DAMN...AUSTIN'S GONNA BE PISSED WHEN HE FINDS OUT WHAT MCMAHON HAD TO SAY AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW TONIGHT!! They'd open, close nearly every 15m segment with some sort of AUSTIN WATCH.

Yeah, those Raws were 95% Austin and 5% whatever else they wanted to throw together. I'm actually surprised they didn't go further with it, like when cutting from matches to show him driving into the arena. "Who gives a shit about Val Venis vs. X-pac, everybody look at the Titantron! Austin's here! Stop wrestling, guys. Austin's here!"

 

[s@ppisgod]

There have never been less overall people watching wrestling on a weekly basis on TV & at arenas in the United States/Canada then there have been since the territories died, and then WCW.

Is it too late to get all of those lost viewers back? Do they even exist anymore?

It's too late. They've moved on, and even if there was a promotion that was EXACTLY what they were looking for, it would need to establish itself for years. WCW killed off it's fanbase even before it closed, and those people are unlikely to ever come back. My own backyard, St. Louis, used to be an NWA hotbed and it's been in decline for the past 30 years. People are moving on, and any movement, especially by a secondary brand, to regain some foothold in certain markets faces a steep, steep uphill battle.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

When you really break it down, Vince didn't grow the wrestling business at all, all he really did was monopolize the marketplace. He drove off more audience than he attracted. The overall pool of people who watch & go to wrestling is significantly smaller now. He grew his own business, but his personal vision of what wrestling is, is far less popular than wrestling ever was in the past. More people liked wrestling pre WWF going national, by incredibly large numbers.

Maybe if somebody else had gone national first or won one of the wars, wrestling would be more popular. Because somebody was going to win, make no mistake. It wasnt staying regional. Unfortunately, it was Vince.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

When you really break it down, Vince didn't grow the wrestling business at all, all he really did was monopolize the marketplace. He drove off more audience than he attracted. The overall pool of people who watch & go to wrestling is significantly smaller now. He grew his own business, but his personal vision of what wrestling is, is far less popular than wrestling ever was in the past. More people liked wrestling pre WWF going national, by incredibly large numbers.

Maybe if somebody else had gone national first or won one of the wars, wrestling would be more popular. Because somebody was going to win, make no mistake. It wasnt staying regional. Unfortunately, it was Vince.

All of that is true.

I read something a while ago, basically said the wrestling market today is 10% of what it was at its peak.

 

[FedEx227]

The issue is two-fold. All those older wrestling fans are gone and likely will never come back, they've moved onto other sports or just don't care anymore.

The other issue is any newer fans in the hopper don't know what "smart" wrestling is. I'm 26 and since I was 10 all I've known is "SPORTS-ENTERTAINMENT"/crash-TV/backstage segment style mainstream wrestling. Granted, I branched out when I was in middle school discovered old tapes, discovered the indies and recently discovered Japan but I'm a rare case. People my age or younger simply don't know any other wrestling than the one Vince McMahon has presented over the past 16 years. That's why I just can't imagine a smart wrestling promotion would work.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

"Smart" wrestling could work...it needs a network to carry it though. It'll never get big enough as a grassroots company. It'll have to be something someone has faith enough in to take and put on TV. If its good, I think TV has been a marketplace where...if its good and given time to gain an audience, it'll succeed.

Unfortunately, I don't see anyone footing the bill or giving it a chance to get moving in 2014 nationally...but I think it could work. The WWE just has such a huge piece of the pie and won't let anyone dig in to even share some viewership at this point so very few TV guys will ever be willing to give a wrestling promotion a real chance especially when the one company that does have that chance gets pretty shitty ratings. I just think its a market TV guys see as owned and operated by one company and everyone else is fighting for table scraps and its not a good deal to get into.

The wrestling market is as small as ever, but the WWE has nearly ALL of it, and is doing just fine financially as a result, but no one else in the 'States really is.

The older fans that were territory guys or even WCW guys, will never come back at this point. But, there is a sect of "casual" fans that can be captured in a right place, right time scenario...I mean, lets be honest...you get a million+ people to buy WrestleMania every year...there is a sect of casual fans still out there that is willing to come back.

 

[FedEx227]

The "hipster" wrestling fan is emerging a bit more in recent years and that's cool but it seems they are content supporting a few of the niche products and IF there was a company as you said with solid financial footing and major TV, they would support it as well. However, by the time that ever happens, that niche or subset of fans will likely be gone or move onto something new.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Mark Cuban took a liking to wrestling a few years back, but nothing came of it. There's a dude with money, business sense, and a background in running a sports franchise and dealing with TV people and even running a network.

I would take him seriously if he got involved in something because I don't think he'd be a typical money mark or fall for carny bullshit like the Carter's do.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Mark Cuban took a liking to wrestling a few years back, but nothing came of it. There's a dude with money, business sense, and a background in running a sports franchise and dealing with TV people and even running a network.

I would take him seriously if he got involved in something because I don't think he'd be a typical money mark or fall for carny bullshit like the Carter's do.

Cuban will take a liking to ANYTHING that could potentially have more money attached to it. I mean, have you seen him on Shark Tank? He's even willing to take on niche items to try and make money off them if he sees it.

Unfortunately, pontificating here for a moment...perhaps Cuban's interest was only short lived because once he did some research he realized there isn't much of a market and there isn't enough of a share to make significant money by investing in the product...

Just a thought.

 

[FedEx227]

Guys, lets go on Shark Tank and pitch a wrestling company. We already have a booker in the fold, press, marketing, everything.

What's your current revenue?

Well, zero and we'll definitely lose money for awhile before we even sniff a payday.

GREAT, I'M IN!

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

LOL this Steph and Dusty promo from last night is just painful to watch. I remember Stephanie being bad, but not this bad.. good lord.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Have they given the Daniel Bryan knee to the face a real name yet or is the official name "THE MOVE THAT BEAT CENA"?

/Please don't let it be the YES! Knee.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

LOL this Steph and Dusty promo from last night is just painful to watch. I remember Stephanie being bad, but not this bad.. good lord.

She is a putrid promo.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

So, Mickie James' contract expired in TNA...they at least got the title off her in time. Mickie James is not expected to re-sign.

 

[krulmichael]

So, Mickie James' contract expired in TNA...they at least got the title off her in time. Mickie James is not expected to re-sign.

She should come back to the E. Always been one of my favorite ”divas”. A feud between her and AJ could be great.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

She should come back to the E. Always been one of my favorite ”divas”. A feud between her and AJ could be great.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2

I can't imagine the WWE being interested...she was a world of problems...