The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

So looks like a 6 on 6 tag match at Survivor series will happen with The Shield Wyatts vs Punk/Bryan/Usos/Rhodes. Always have to have an 'old fashion survivor series match' as they like to call it all the time.

Though if that is the route they take, kind of a lame way to get Bryan out of the world picture. All it takes is one backstage attack and he stops giving a fuck about the world title.

He can be back in the title picture at any time. He main evented three of four PPV's in a row, none of which did any sort of good business, so it was time to move him away for a bit. This isn't exactly a mid card dump spot, these are all pushed acts with Punk, Shield, Wyatt's, etc.

Everybody gets cycled out of the top of the card, even Cena, the only guy ever immune to that was Austin.

 

[EmpireWF]

The UK loved them some Brodie Lee & Tyler Black.

 

[Leftwich]

Best picture ever.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

He can be back in the title picture at any time. He main evented three of four PPV's in a row, none of which did any sort of good business, so it was time to move him away for a bit. This isn't exactly a mid card dump spot, these are all pushed acts with Punk, Shield, Wyatt's, etc.

Everybody gets cycled out of the top of the card, even Cena, the only guy ever immune to that was Austin.

To be fair, it is kind of a mid-card dump spot. They are just putting a lot of top acts in the mid-card dump spot hence why its a hodge podge of guys who just all of a sudden have beef.

They just cycled Big Show into Bryan's place, moved Punk away from the Heyman feud and into this mess.

 

[s@ppisgod]

Best picture ever.

He kicked Ambrose straight into senility.

 

[FedEx227]

To be fair, it is kind of a mid-card dump spot. They are just putting a lot of top acts in the mid-card dump spot hence why its a hodge podge of guys who just all of a sudden have beef.

They just cycled Big Show into Bryan's place, moved Punk away from the Heyman feud and into this mess.

I think THIS is technically still Punk vs. Heyman, Heyman was "the devil" Bray talked about, etc. There is still hints of this being a continuation of that feud.

Bryan, yeah, he's totally just being put in here and out of the title picture presumably he doesn't care about winning it anymore.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I wouldn't call anything with Bryan, Punk, The Shield, and the Wyatts all grouped together a "mid card dump". These are all top acts. This is a top program and honestly probably a better place to be than the goofy spot opposite Randy Orton which is a soap opera slot that isn't drawing because people hate it. The title is involved as a plot device, but it's just another McMahon power play angle long term, which is exactly what I said the day after SummerSlam. The title that matters has shifted to the big gold belt because that's the one Cena has.

It was established that Bryan was "better" than Orton over & over again, doesn't need the title in this case to show that, the real heat is between Bryan & the McMahons because they successfully screwed him. If he never gets the one up on them, then that's a disaster. He already got it on Orton, title or not.

They had to move away from the Bryan thing because it went on for months & months and never drew anything. The program wasn't working, either because nobody likes it, Bryan isn't a needle mover at that level, or the most likely scenario, a little bit of both.

Nobody wants to hear this, but i'm not sure you can entirely blame the awful program because Bryan didn't even draw at SummerSlam with Cena, or immediately after before they bait & switched a thousand times. Then Cena comes back and everything jumps up again. People like Bryan, he is a star, but he's not a big time draw and he never will be as long as he's a cartoon character. If he is something closer to Bryan Danielson, i'm betting the McMahon angle would have drawn better. He's a cartoon who may not be played for laughs, but he's also not perceived as "serious". That is the problem far more than not winning the silly title and holding it imo.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I wouldn't call anything with Bryan, Punk, The Shield, and the Wyatts all grouped together a "mid card dump". These are all top acts. This is a top program and honestly probably a better place to be than the goofy spot opposite Randy Orton which is a soap opera slot that isn't drawing because people hate it. The title is involved as a plot device, but it's just another McMahon power play angle long term, which is exactly what I said the day after SummerSlam. The title that matters has shifted to the big gold belt because that's the one Cena has.

It was established that Bryan was "better" than Orton over & over again, doesn't need the title in this case to show that, the real heat is between Bryan & the McMahons because they successfully screwed him. If he never gets the one up on them, then that's a disaster. He already got it on Orton, title or not.

They had to move away from the Bryan thing because it went on for months & months and never drew anything. The program wasn't working, either because nobody likes it, Bryan isn't a needle mover at that level, or the most likely scenario, a little bit of both.

Nobody wants to hear this, but i'm not sure you can entirely blame the awful program because Bryan didn't even draw at SummerSlam with Cena, or immediately after before they bait & switched a thousand times. Then Cena comes back and everything jumps up again. People like Bryan, he is a star, but he's not a big time draw and he never will be as long as he's a cartoon character. If he is something closer to Bryan Danielson, i'm betting the McMahon angle would have drawn better. He's a cartoon who may not be played for laughs, but he's also not perceived as "serious". That is the problem far more than not winning the silly title and holding it imo.

It is third or fourth fiddle at this point...pick your poison...it is mid-card fodder...just because they have put a few top acts in this scenario doesn't make it less of a mid-card position.

As for the rest, I thought you said, months ago, this would make Daniel Bryan a BIGGER STAR? Doesn't seem to be the case as I said it wouldn't as soon as this program started. It doesn't matter if he is a star or a potential draw, they never gave him a chance to be because of terrible booking. You can play off the idea that the belt doesn't mean anything, but BIG STARS usually have it, and until this goofy terrible feud, that was the case for almost two years. The fact they never gave Danielson the belt was the biggest problem they had with the feud. He was booked like a geek, so, if the fans don't get behind him because he's a geek, its their own fault. He should have had the belt for three months now, now, to the point where him winning the title means nothing.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Ol Brodie Lee has really been coming into his own lately. Since the Wyatts have been on the main roster, he has been the standout, and its currently not close. Good, stiff, squashes with Ohno. Standing out in the tag matches.

And, good thing Vince hasn't taken a liking to his YEAHYEAHYEAH gimmick...only comes out subtly at this moment (knocks on wood).

 

[JimLeavy59]

So Bryan is back to being a nobody?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

So Bryan is back to being a nobody?

That is your takeaway here?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Just got around to watching RAW, and that closing match/segment was fantastic.

Best thing going in the company right now. Like Larry says, Harper has looked great lately and this big clusterfuck of an angle features some of the best the company has to offer in a lot of ways.

I have not paid for a PPV since MITB 2011, but might plunk down $50 or whatever they charge these days to watch a 6 vs 6 elimination match in glorious HD if they go that route.

 

[FedEx227]

So Bryan is back to being a nobody?

Yeah, except for being the focal point of the main event with the entire crowd doing his chant.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Bryan isn't a nobody, but they had four pay per views (or whatever) that did some pretty shit business with him in the main event and they moved him down the card. The program didn't exactly go as planned. But, anyone with a brain would have known that when they saw HHH put the Pedigree on him.

At that point, Bryan wasn't going to move the needle, and its a shame, because he has the potential to. They just really want Orton, Big Show to be that guy and they never will be.

 

[Ravin]

So I think now the question to be asked is, Bryan was not champion for those four PPV's, and was constantly getting fucked over ... do the buys get better with him as champion?

You can't keep a guy constantly as the challenger and expect people to keep giving a fuck all the time, unless you are like an Austin, and those are rare.

I have to think people would have given more of a fuck if they knew Bryan was champion OR actually had a chance in hell of walking out with the strap.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

Bryan isn't a nobody, but they had four pay per views (or whatever) that did some pretty shit business with him in the main event and they moved him down the card. The program didn't exactly go as planned. But, anyone with a brain would have known that when they saw HHH put the Pedigree on him.

At that point, Bryan wasn't going to move the needle, and its a shame, because he has the potential to. They just really want Orton, Big Show to be that guy and they never will be.

The problem is that Orton is always going to be supporting guy at best, same with the Big Show (but he can be either a heel or face effective, and Orton is a terrible face.) This program is going to be terrible because it's two guys wrestling who essentially are there near the top of the card who usually put people over. Awful booking.

As for Ravin, I think the buys get better a little as champion, because some of the marks might be more interested in it. However, many of them and the IWC aren't going to buy the average PPV, so the drawing effect really isn't there.

I really think the booking has to be there from top to bottom with the PPVs right now, and it's been lousy to say the least. In an era where there truly isn't a big draw like Austin was, you have to have top to bottom great cards, and we aren't seeing it.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

So I think now the question to be asked is, Bryan was not champion for those four PPV's, and was constantly getting fucked over ... do the buys get better with him as champion?

You can't keep a guy constantly as the challenger and expect people to keep giving a fuck all the time, unless you are like an Austin, and those are rare.

I have to think people would have given more of a fuck if they knew Bryan was champion OR actually had a chance in hell of walking out with the strap.

We'll never know because they never gave it a chance, and they Dusty'd the finish so many times, no one cares about Bryan winning the title at this point.

As for Austin, the Attitude Era was a different time, sure, but Austin was the champ longer and more often than anyone else, and it was a roster with The Rock on it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I truly believe that at this point he needs to shave the beard & the goofball aspects of his character need to be dropped. That shit was fine to get him over, but the fans will never perceive that as a top level act. It looked to me like they were getting away from that shit after SummerSlam, but it never happened.

I think his persona is a bigger detriment at this point than the four consecutive Dusty finishes. Those don't help, but SummerSlam vs Cena didn't draw, and neither did the first Orton match. Its not like Bryan was on fire from a drawing standpoint and was killed by the booking. The people never really lost interest in him, the interest was just never all that great to begin with. Business didn't fall off of a cliff, but it wasn't stellar either. RAW hit some lows too. But that's not on him entirely, or at all, because you had NFL starting up, Cena gone, and clearly nobody cares about McMahon power trip.

I don't think they've hand waved Bryan, it four shows was enough for now. They always cycle guys. The current angle with Punk, Shield, Wyatt's is arguable the hottest angle going into SummerSlam. No one cares about Orton/Show soap opera. No one cares about Del Rio and that's clearly third in the pecking order.

The idea I've heard is that Bryan wins Rumble, and goes into Mania "screw proof" because babyface Vince backs him up vs heel Trios/Steph. If he gets his hand raised in New Orleans that's the payoff everybody is looking for. We'll see.

 

[s@ppisgod]

I think Vince forces him to keep the beard to make him standout because he thinks the only way a small white guy can standout is by having a crazy beard. I actually think he tries to shave it every day, but Vince berates him into backing out.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I think Vince forces him to keep the beard to make him standout because he thinks the only way a small white guy can standout is by having a crazy beard. I actually think he tries to shave it every day, but Vince berates him into backing out.

In this scenario does Vince also berate him to PUUUUUUKE...PUKE DAMNIT...PUUUUUUUUKE?