The Official Wrestlemania XXVIII Thread

[EmpireWF]

Leaving money on the table...don't know how accurate this is but it's stuck in my head all this time. I heard the Invasion PPV in 2001 produced something like $10 million in profits/revenue/whatever.

And that's with the shit that whole thing turned out to be. Imagine if they could have or could today put egos aside for business sake.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I still think HHH/Undertaker I at WrestleMania X7 was the best HHH/Undertaker match.

They haven't had an OMGNEARFALL that had me nearly shit my pants like when H's was up for the Last Ride and he took the sledgehammer and put it right on top of the Undertaker's dome. That's damn good booking and it was done organically.

I feel as though they are just patronizing with the constant false finishes...they don't seem organic, because its all weapon shot or finisher, weapon shot or finisher and the OMGNEARFALL.

Like I said, I definitely need to rewatch it...I couldn't understand any kind of story telling in that match from my seat...but I am sure it came off better via television production.

I can't give real grades, because, I really need to rewatch the big matches...but it seemed as though Jericho-Punk delivered on what they set out to do...I see a lot of praise for Taker and H's for the match, so, I'll definitely chalk it up to me not being able to see shit...and Rock/Cena was a good sports entertainment with everything else being utter shit.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

I've said it doezens of times...

Vince is the least successful, really successful person of all time. I challenge anybody to find me a multi millionaire who has left more money on the table.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Leaving money on the table...don't know how accurate this is but it's stuck in my head all this time. I heard the Invasion PPV in 2001 produced something like $10 million in profits/revenue/whatever.

And that's with the shit that whole thing turned out to be. Imagine if they could have or could today put egos aside for business sake.

Invasion would be #1.

Due to ego, and Kevin Dunn convincing him that allowing the WCW side to look good at any point would make the WWE look weak and threaten the business, probably cost the company tens of millions of dollars.

That should have been a long give and take feud that shouldnt have ended until people were tired of it. The only important part was that WWE needed to go over at the end. I mean, who cares if WCW looks strong, YOU OWN IT NOW!

Instead, they really only made money on one PPV, and because WCW was made to look like geeks from day one, people lost interest almost immediately.

#2 was ECW. Vince having too much of an ego to accept that something he didnt create was over and making money was something he couldnt handle. He stopped booking Hammerstein Ballroom, despite packed houses full of hot fans, because they booed Batista and Big Show out of the building on live TV. Then he rebranded ECW in his image, homogenized it in sterile buildings at TV tapings in front of fans that didnt care, and everybody stopped caring. A TV show that started off doing 3.0's was down to 0.9's. December to Dismember bombed. Of course he blamed everybody else. Not himself for changing what was making money and what people wanted.

The man is an absolute fool in many cases, and a lot of it is his ego. The same ego that has helped make him a millionaire is the reason he isnt a billionaire.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I've said it doezens of times...

Vince is the least successful, really successful person of all time. I challenge anybody to find me a multi millionaire who has left more money on the table.

Its just silly shit...they legitimately have, not once, given Danielson the ball...

You'd THINK giving him the Smackdown Title is giving him the ball, but no no...that's just a prop to let you think he's got the ball so they can make it look like you have fumbling problems.

He goes out and puts on a buzz worthy match against Jericho on the first night the guy shows up on their D-show...they decide "fuck, let's just have this dude job out"...

They job him out for the entire season to guys that shouldn't even be in the ring with him...if they didn't look like Vince would want an orgy with them, they wouldn't even curtain jerk a ROH show.

The very next opportunity he gets on TV, during the Nexus Invasion, he, once again steals the spotlight and chokes out Justin Roberts like a champ and creates some buzz for himself. They "fire" him. lulz.

He comes back and they make him out to be an uber nerdy mope...gets himself over when he is out hanging with the likes of the Bellas and Gail Kim.

Then, they give him the Money in the Bank which is basically a tell tale sign of "we don't know how to get you over via story, so, we'll have you cheaply win thetitle so, it looks like we're trying"...and this motherfucker gets himself over anyway with the ridiculously awful "lucky heel champ" routine.

Then they job him out in 15 seconds to Sheamus in the curtain jerking at WrestleMania. It could have been used as an opportunity to get BOTH guys over with even a solid 10 minute match...but alas, no.

Awful booking is awful.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

It is amazing how he manages to get/stay over despite the best efforts of the company to tell you he is a mid card geek.

And let's not forget the other FU to the internet tonight. Did Zack Ryder really need to look like a fool - AGAIN - and take that pin?

Guys getting over on their own? We'll show these fans! Push Cody Rhodes!

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Invasion would be #1.

Due to ego, and Kevin Dunn convincing him that allowing the WCW side to look good at any point would make the WWE look weak and threaten the business, probably cost the company tens of millions of dollars.

That should have been a long give and take feud that shouldnt have ended until people were tired of it. The only important part was that WWE needed to go over at the end. I mean, who cares if WCW looks strong, YOU OWN IT NOW!

Instead, they really only made money on one PPV, and because WCW was made to look like geeks from day one, people lost interest almost immediately.

#2 was ECW. Vince having too much of an ego to accept that something he didnt create was over and making money was something he couldnt handle. He stopped booking Hammerstein Ballroom, despite packed houses full of hot fans, because they booed Batista and Big Show out of the building on live TV. Then he rebranded ECW in his image, homogenized it in sterile buildings at TV tapings in front of fans that didnt care, and everybody stopped caring. A TV show that started off doing 3.0's was down to 0.9's. December to Dismember bombed. Of course he blamed everybody else. Not himself for changing what was making money and what people wanted.

The man is an absolute fool in many cases, and a lot of it is his ego. The same ego that has helped make him a millionaire is the reason he isnt a billionaire.

The InVasion angle and anything pertaining to ECW appear in Chapter One of the Vince McMahon story on how to keep yourself from making hundreds of millions of more dollars.

In an industry full of severely autistic kids and full blown vegetable retards, he's the kid with Asberger's.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

It is amazing how he manages to get/stay over despite the best efforts of the company to tell you he is a mid card geek.

And let's not forget the other FU to the internet tonight. Did Zack Ryder really need to look like a fool - AGAIN - and take that pin?

Guys getting over on their own? We'll show these fans! Push Cody Rhodes!

btw - Zack Ryder merch sells like hot cakes. Couldn't get the spiked banana thingys or a shirt by the end of the night. Crowd was full of the fist pump hand foam thingys.

Got the biggest pop of anybody in that awful match as well. Eve is a heat vaporizer, too. Who gives a fuck about Eve?

 

[EmpireWF]

Ryder is another PERFECT example. They literally do absolutely nothing with the guy but he manages to get himself over based solely on his own creativity and hard work. What do they do? Bury him.

ARRR, HOW DARE YOU GET OVER!!!!

Ridiculous.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Kane-Orton went as expected...ridiculously awful.
I like the Big Show, so I won't even be mad, but that match with Cody Rhodes was awful. I don't even hate Cody Rhodes, but fuck, no one cares.
I took a piss break from the sock folders match.
Team Johnny v. Team Teddy was an absolute DUD.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

btw - Zack Ryder merch sells like hot cakes. Couldn't get the spiked banana thingys or a shirt by the end of the night.

Got the biggest pop of anybody in that awful match as well. Eve is a heat vaporizer, too. Who gives a fuck about Eve?

In that case, they should keep burying him until people are too embarrassed to buy his stuff.

That'll show those fans who to cheer for!

 

I mean, could you imagine any of the old time promoters thinking lke this? It's mind blowing. Could you imagine being gift wrapped a hot act, and burying them because it wasnt the guy you wanted to push? "I want to make money, but not with him." WUT?! I mean, it's hard enough to get people over, why not take the layups when the defense gives them to you?

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Ryder is another PERFECT example. They literally do absolutely nothing with the guy but he manages to get himself over based solely on his own creativity and hard work. What do they do? Bury him.

ARRR, HOW DARE YOU GET OVER!!!!

Ridiculous.

Outside of his road buddy (Ziggler) putting him over like a million bucks (again, title win =/= giving you the ball, its making it look like you have a ball so they can show you that you have fumbling problems), and another one of his buddies giving him a little rub (Cena) they literally just trot him out there to be made a fool of.

And, it is funny, because, he's a ridiculous sympathetic babyface...that is what made the Z True Long Island Story as successful as it was...it was Ryder being himself, a sympathetic figure that is trying one last time to get noticed and get himself over, reaching out to the fans and just doing shit he and his buddies thought was funny...that's Ryder...a sympathetic figure.

You trot him out there to be the fool, hoping people just grow tired of him and HE CONTINUES TO GET HIMSELF OVER...people want to cheer the fuck out of Zack Ryder in a Santino kind of way. Santino's made a lot of money for himself by being the comedy relief...good for him, and I guess Ryder can, too...its better than curtain jerking with Primo and worrying if you get a late night phone call from Johnny Ace asking you "what are you wearing?" before he realizes he dialed the wrong number and tells you you've been Future Endeavor'd.

 

[JBregz]

I thought this wrestle mania was pretty decent. Way better than last years in my opinion. The CM Punk was a good match and I enjoyed the rock one also. Kind of disappointing in the Undertaker/HHH match. I thought they didn't use the environment around them well enough. Would have been much more enjoyable to see them on the cell itself instead of it being there for basically hype up and looks purposes.

 

[EmpireWF]

Kind of disappointing in the Undertaker/HHH match. I thought they didn't use the environment around them well enough. Would have been much more enjoyable to see them on the cell itself instead of it being there for basically hype up and looks purposes.

Saw that knock from a few people tonight, but I don't get it. There was no way they're going ON the cell. Taker and HHH haven't done that in years and between the injuries both have, it would be too big a risk. Besides, if you don't need to, why do it?

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Also, I will say this...there is a reason the WWE has the style they do...you can not appreciate a match like Jericho and Punk sitting in the suite. You just can't. Imagine trying to watch Richards and Elgin from nearly a football field away? Doesn't have the same effect of having me mark out like a little girl.

WWE is much better to be watched from the comfort of your own home and having the HD camera shots...live...I find myself constantly disappointed overall...I mean, don't get me wrong...seeing an Undertaker entrance or being in that "Sports Entertainment Moment" with the Rock and Cena staring each other down are fucking awesome and can't be topped...but I can't appreciate an ending of Punk and Jericho (the best in-ring match on the damn card) when they are rolling around and reversing submission holds when I'm sitting in a seat that Kyle Boller is aiming for when he is on one knee and ready to show off for scouts. It just doesn't work. Nevermind having to try and watch Taker and HHH in a fence mesh box. I felt like I was reading posts from the Funny Image Thread from three years ago...couldn't see shit.

 

[EmpireWF]

How far away were you larry?

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

How far away were you larry?

I was in the Bacardi suite. Its a fantastic seat for a football game.

There are maybe...500 "good" seats at a wrestling show of the WWE's magnitude. The ones surrounding the ringside area. Now, if you are lucky, and the venue is set up right, there are good seats at events where you can sit right behind the production crew on the hard camera side, too...but that's rare and very venue specific. For this event, they had the entire section behind the production area blocked off...so, no dice there.

Joe Robbie is not a good stadium to watch ANY event in the first place, really. Because they had it as a baseball and football stadium, the dimensions of the seating are really FUBAR, so, if you're sitting down in the non-bleachers that are expanded into what would be the end zone and sidelines (which are not there for any event other than WrestleMania or a ridiculous concert like U2)...it just wasn't the best venue to have an event at where the fans or "customers" are going to get their money's worth (my tickets were free, FWIW) by being immersed into the event, and it didn't help that the WWE's set up was very very nice looking, but not very functional. Anyone on the far endzone, which was across from the entrance of the wrestlers, didn't have access to seeing the jumbo tron (great HD picture), but had to settle for this little smaller screen that was shot onto a cloth that covered the Cell...unfortunately, because the Cell area was hallowed out and the big WRESTLEMANIA logo was bright as fuck and could be seen from Mars, you couldn't actually see the transmission on the canvas that was supposed to show the event, so, for 2/5ths of the entire audience, you had to watch the match in the ring, not the jumbotron or on an auxillery feed somewhere.

Not the best location to watch a Wrestling event, was SunLife. I think fans had a better viewing experience at Survivor Series at American Airlines down here. Or would have had a better viewing experience seeing a WWE show in the Bank Atlantic Center.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

He stopped booking Hammerstein Ballroom, despite packed houses full of hot fans, because they booed Batista and Big Show out of the building on live TV.

The WWE doesn't do intimate venues anymore, and that sucks. The WWE has gotten pretty big by doing these giants stadiums and whatnot...but I just don't dig it like I do the more intimate venues. The crowd is another character in the production in wrestling. At its core, wrestling is just another form of performance art, just a performance art that begs the crowd to participate at all times in...

Unfortunately, in big venues, you get a more controlled participation...there are so many people, that while its impressive to have tens of thousands chant WHAT or "LET'S GO CENA...CENA SUCKS!" is doesn't necessarily disrupt the show...occasionally it does for the less skilled mic workers...but it doesn't disrupt a show it is mainly a back drop or a peanut gallery for the performers to pander to. It is tough to grab the giant crowd by the balls, which is, why, when something happens in the WWE that grabs the crowd by the balls (example, the CM Punk-John Cena match @ MitB '11), it makes it that much more special, because, damnit, its hard grab 75K sets of balls in a wrestling ring in a stadium.

In a more intimate setting, the crowd is more than a back drop, it is a full fledged actively participating character in the show and with that, comes a load of problems but also a lot of potential rewards. It is actually easy to grab the intimate crowd by the balls, especially smarky ones...as smarky as a crowd at Hammerstein is and will shit on a lot of things, they are the easiest crowd to pander to and get on your side. A little flippy flop...a little chain wrestling...a little boost to the in-ring product and you could cart out some legitimate shit out there and they'd probably cheer it if it you wrapped it up in the right packaging. But if you throw some shit out there and its in a brown paper bag, even if its on fire, they'll stomp it out, and walk it back to your door and put it on your doorstep and it could ruin a show.

Both have their good, bad, and have their rewards...it is why the WWE is such a different ball game than any other type of wrestling organization...simply the production standpoint alone and how they open the flood gates to the countless fans that show up in these giant venues...its a different animal.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

WWE could have made money on ECW for many years, catering to the niche audience that spends money on ROH, CHIKARA, DGUSA, PWG, etc.

ECW, if left alone and allowed to be what people wanted it to be, could have stayed in those small & mid sized buildings, as a third "tour", while at the same time acting as a pseudo developmental group. The AAA tour, if you will.

With Heyman developing the talent, WWE could have had their own little ROH-eqsue promotion where new talent could cut their teeth on national TV and in front of rabid crowds before hoping on the big show.

People were spending money on ECW DVD's and PPV's and the ratings on SciFi were strong well beyond the initial nostalgia period. Heyman was all set to change the direction from hardcore nostalgia to MMA inspired "serious" wrestling. It would have been different enough to satisfy the smarks into thinking it was "cool" despite being big corporate wrestling.

But Vince had to have his extremists and vixens and Bobby Lashley's and it sputtered out to the tune of a 90,000k buy PPV embarrassment at the end, because they drove off the smarks and the mainstream could not give a single fuck. I guess smark money wasnt green or something. Vince insisted that "a few thousand vocal northeast fans" was all the old ECW vision could attract, but the DVD sales, One Night Stand buyrate, and early TV ratings proved that to be false. He's just stubborn and needed to do it his way. And it failed.

 

[FedEx227]

I've said it doezens of times...

Vince is the least successful, really successful person of all time. I challenge anybody to find me a multi millionaire who has left more money on the table.

Can we PLEASE do the podcast about this soon!