Tom Brady best QB in the NFL

[celtsxpatsxsox]

I hate to bring up spygate...but there it is eat your heart out enough said...

And Archer is 100% right the pats defense was so much better then any of Mannings, which is why Brady has rings, he didnt single handedly win those, that great defense stopped some of the best offenses to play the game...St.Louis was redunkulous, Philly with T.O. and McNabb in their prime, and Carolina with a rushing attack that was murdering people...the DEFENSE stopped that, DEFENSE wins championships, not quarterbacks its a team thing and since brady started playing the Patriots year in and year out have had the better overall team, not because of Brady either

I will bring out my saying again. Defense doesnt win championships. They can only lose them. And that is true. Defenses dont put up the points(well sometimes). You cant win games unless you can score.

 

[Archer]

I will bring out my saying again. Defense doesnt win championships. They can only lose them. And that is true. Defenses dont put up the points(well sometimes). You cant win games unless you can score.

Defense puts u in perfect position tho. Look what happened the one year Peyton had a "playoff defense" , his team won the sb.

 

[Nukleopatra]

I will bring out my saying again. Defense doesnt win championships. They can only lose them. And that is true. Defenses dont put up the points(well sometimes). You cant win games unless you can score.

Are you referring to the NE/Carolina Super bowl where Tom Brady had to carry the team on his shoulders by passing for 354 yards and 3 TDs, because the defense couldn't stop a below average player like Jake Delhomme?

You have to thank Randy Moss for that victory... Wait a minute.. Did you guys even have Randy Moss at the time? I can't quite remember. I'm a bit slow.

 

[Deviant]

I wrote a paper about this for a college class a while back. I'll try to summarize.

"Defense wins championships." - The Most Overused, Incorrect Quote Ever. The only two Super Bowls I've seen that quote ever prove true is the Ravens vs. Giants Super Bowl (that was painful to watch) and Bucs vs. Raiders Super Bowl.

Championships appear to be the way to rank a QB for most people (thus, the Brady 3, Peyton 1 argument). However, if that's the case, is Dan Marino worse than Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, or Phil Simms? And does that make Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana better than Brady?

You can't compare the two based on Super Bowl success. The Patriots have had elite defenses going in their Super Bowl years, the Colts have never really ever been known for defense (ironically, their defense played better during the playoffs). You must compare them on their on-field achievements.

One thing you can compare are their best years. Peyton's 49 TD year and Brady's 50 TD year. Brady clearly had more touchdowns, but he favored Randy Moss for big plays and touchdowns (which is why he broke Jerry's record of 22). Peyton spread to all of his receivers (Harrison, Stokely, Wayne) as all of them caught 60+ receptions, 1,000+ yards, and 10+ TDs a piece, which has never been done by any other quarterback.

The "Brady won with no-name receivers" is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Manning didn't always have Harrison, Wayne, Gonzalez, and Clark. Manning helped shed light on his receivers because of his name. Before Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard was Manning big name TE. Now, he struggles to even stay on rosters since he left Indy. Even before Pollard, there was Ken Dilger (who he made a pro-bowl TE). Brandon Stokely had his best years in Indy as well and was recognized as one of the best slot receivers in the game during his time with Peyton. Before Reggie Wayne it was Qadry Ismail.

It's the same with Brady, except Brady never had the name, so you never focused on their offensive players: Branch, Brown, and Givens. But, when Brady's name grew, you knew who they were. And the exact same thing happened when his receivers left: they became irrelevant. Branch became hot shit and went to Seattle and he's... not doing much. Givens... well, I don't know where he went and I don't think anyone really cares. Troy Brown stayed with the team and he's going to be loved for everything he did for that team because he's respectable. He's the oddball (more like lucky one) out of that equation. They both make their receivers so much better.

The arguments go on and on, but at the end of the day I give Manning a slight edge over Brady, but regardless you can't take away the impact that either of these men have made on the game. Manning, a 3-time MVP, 4-time All-NFL, 1-time Superbowl MVP and Brady, 1-time MVP, 1-time All-NFL, 2-time Super Bowl MVP. They are both remarkable quarterbacks.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I don't think anyone is sitting here and trying to say Brady or Manning is a bad quarterback.

I could go on, but people like this new fuck nuckleowhatever will put words in your mouth which you never said.

it just annoys me when people try to credit Brady with the greast QB of all time simply because of rings when a QB alone doesn't win games.

Wayne didn't even come out until his 3rd year, I remember all of those shitty receivers we had that people thought were good too, that was so funny when they left to get that bigger contract and completely dissapeared. if you think about it though the same thing happened to brady's receivers just like the guy before me said.

I remember everyone though Branch was hot shit for a couple of months and he dropped of big time, or Givens going to Tennessee, and seemingly dissapearing off the face of the earth. sounds a lot like the receivers fates after leaving Manning.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

I wrote a paper about this for a college class a while back. I'll try to summarize.

"Defense wins championships." - The Most Overused, Incorrect Quote Ever. The only two Super Bowls I've seen that quote ever prove true is the Ravens vs. Giants Super Bowl (that was painful to watch) and Bucs vs. Raiders Super Bowl.

Championships appear to be the way to rank a QB for most people (thus, the Brady 3, Peyton 1 argument). However, if that's the case, is Dan Marino worse than Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, or Phil Simms? And does that make Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana better than Brady?

You can't compare the two based on Super Bowl success. The Patriots have had elite defenses going in their Super Bowl years, the Colts have never really ever been known for defense (ironically, their defense played better during the playoffs). You must compare them on their on-field achievements.

One thing you can compare are their best years. Peyton's 49 TD year and Brady's 50 TD year. Brady clearly had more touchdowns, but he favored Randy Moss for big plays and touchdowns (which is why he broke Jerry's record of 22). Peyton spread to all of his receivers (Harrison, Stokely, Wayne) as all of them caught 60+ receptions, 1,000+ yards, and 10+ TDs a piece, which has never been done by any other quarterback.

The "Brady won with no-name receivers" is one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. Manning didn't always have Harrison, Wayne, Gonzalez, and Clark. Manning helped shed light on his receivers because of his name. Before Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard was Manning big name TE. Now, he struggles to even stay on rosters since he left Indy. Even before Pollard, there was Ken Dilger (who he made a pro-bowl TE). Brandon Stokely had his best years in Indy as well and was recognized as one of the best slot receivers in the game during his time with Peyton. Before Reggie Wayne it was Qadry Ismail.

It's the same with Brady, except Brady never had the name, so you never focused on their offensive players: Branch, Brown, and Givens. But, when Brady's name grew, you knew who they were. And the exact same thing happened when his receivers left: they became irrelevant. Branch became hot shit and went to Seattle and he's... not doing much. Givens... well, I don't know where he went and I don't think anyone really cares. Troy Brown stayed with the team and he's going to be loved for everything he did for that team because he's respectable. He's the oddball (more like lucky one) out of that equation. They both make their receivers so much better.

The arguments go on and on, but at the end of the day I give Manning a slight edge over Brady, but regardless you can't take away the impact that either of these men have made on the game. Manning, a 3-time MVP, 4-time All-NFL, 1-time Superbowl MVP and Brady, 1-time MVP, 1-time All-NFL, 2-time Super Bowl MVP. They are both remarkable quarterbacks.

Good write up but some of the stuff I just dont seem to buy. I dont buy the Tom Brady not spreading the ball around theory because if you have a receiver that is making plays why not throw to him when you need a play.

Brandon Stokley had one good season in Indy then 2 mediocre ones. His two years in Denver he has done the same as his last two seasons in Indy. Quadry Ismall had two good seasons before Indy and had a mediocre season in his only year with the Colts. Marcus Pollard was 34 when he left Indy. That is a perfect time for a player to start the drop of his career.

The thing is the patriots have never felt a need to pay for receivers because they knew Brady would manage with what they had. Hell he made Reche Caldwell look like a pretty good receiver in 06. Getting Moss in that trade with Oakland was a gift and him signing again cheap was another gift. Troy Brown is one of my favorite players but when Brady emerged as the starter is when Brown was on the downside of his career. I feel he did more on ST and defense than on offense.

 

[ThunderHorse]

Shit I remember I used to be a HUGE Marcus Pollard Fan...

That guy left Indy in his Prime, he was Hot Shit when he left... I think I saw him getting his ass kicked in Seattle the other year against the Redskins.

anyone remember Jerome Paython? who left us to go play for the saints?, what happened to that guy.... lol

the list just grows and grows.

 

[Deviant]

Good write up but some of the stuff I just dont seem to buy. I dont buy the Tom Brady not spreading the ball around theory because if you have a receiver that is making plays why not throw to him when you need a play.

Brandon Stokley had one good season in Indy then 2 mediocre ones. His two years in Denver he has done the same as his last two seasons in Indy. Quadry Ismall had two good seasons before Indy and had a mediocre season in his only year with the Colts. Marcus Pollard was 34 when he left Indy. That is a perfect time for a player to start the drop of his career.

The thing is the patriots have never felt a need to pay for receivers because they knew Brady would manage with what they had. Hell he made Reche Caldwell look like a pretty good receiver in 06. Getting Moss in that trade with Oakland was a gift and him signing again cheap was another gift. Troy Brown is one of my favorite players but when Brady emerged as the starter is when Brown was on the downside of his career. I feel he did more on ST and defense than on offense.

I probably didn't elaborate well enough on that. I meant Randy Moss was a critical reason why Brady got his TDs, not that the ball always went to him. Trust me, if I were dropping back, I would probably throw to Moss all the time. If anything, Welker also got some work in leading the league in receptions, so he definitely spread the wealth. But, in the red zone and on deep plays, he was looking for Moss. Not a bad thing though, that's smart.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

Shit I remember I used to be a HUGE Marcus Pollard Fan...

That guy left Indy in his Prime, he was Hot Shit when he left... I think I saw him getting his ass kicked in Seattle the other year against the Redskins.

anyone remember Jerome Paython? who left us to go play for the saints?, what happened to that guy.... lol

the list just grows and grows.

34 years of age=Prime?

Jerome Pathon who put up better number with the saints than he did in Indy?

 

[ThunderHorse]

point of emphasis...

where is he now?

Marcus Pollard was a beast when he left, emphasis on WHEN HE LEFT, HE WAS A BEAST.

stop trying to argue for the sake of argument man.

 

[ThunderHorse]

in his last season with indy, he had 300 + receiving yards with only 4 games, he was on pace to have his beast season ever..

and the previous season he did have his best season ever...

the more you know...

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

point of emphasis...

where is he now?

Marcus Pollard was a beast when he left, emphasis on WHEN HE LEFT, HE WAS A BEAST.

stop trying to argue for the sake of argument man.

I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. Marcus Pollard last season he only had 309 receiving yards. His first season away from Indy he had 509 receiving yards with the Lions. The point I am making is that the patriots receivers all left when they were still in there prime in terms of age and all had a lot of upside to there careers.

 

[ThunderHorse]

jesus...

the guy also scored 6 TD's in his last year with Indianapolis and had 3 catches over 20 yards with 1 less game then he did the previous season. only 11 less receptions which was back when Edgerrin James had finally healed up from the torn up knee and we didn't have to throw as much because he was finally starting to come back to form (although he never truly did).

this is pointless.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I mean,

look at Deion Branch, the guy has had the same average of yards per game, which averages to catches likewise

the same amount of td's since he left.

He hasn't had the yards but he hasn't played a full season since he was in New England

its pointless...

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

jesus...

the guy also scored 6 TD's in his last year with Indianapolis and had 3 catches over 20 yards with 1 less game then he did the previous season. only 11 less receptions which was back when Edgerrin James had finally healed up from the torn up knee and we didn't have to throw as much because he was finally starting to come back to form (although he never truly did).

this is pointless.

Yes it is pointless and it is a unwinnable debate. But if someone keeps responding of course I am going to respond back. If you dont want to debate anymore then just say done or something but if someone else decides to make a post I will debate with them.

 

[ThunderHorse]

I don't think you understand...

its pointless because its the same both ways by your logic, even if I don't agree...

Indianapolis receivers left at older ages as you say, despite Pathon leaving after I want to say 3 or 4 years, I don't remember, anyway, he left, and Pollard left at an old age, and they dropped off because they were older in your opinion.

maybe that doesn't apply with Pathon, but it does with Pollard, Stokely had his one great season, and ever since his seasons have been average, just like his last season where he actually played with indianapolis, he was hurt the year after.

the example with brady is Deion Branch, who left and is virutally doing the same thing he was with NE.

I mean, by your logic it makes them both seemingly the same in that argument.

thats why its pointless... not because "I can't debate with you"

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

I don't think you understand...

its pointless because its the same both ways by your logic, even if I don't agree...

Indianapolis receivers left at older ages as you say, despite Pathon leaving after I want to say 3 or 4 years, I don't remember, anyway, he left, and Pollard left at an old age, and they dropped off because they were older in your opinion.

maybe that doesn't apply with Pathon, but it does with Pollard, Stokely had his one great season, and ever since his seasons have been average, just like his last season where he actually played with indianapolis, he was hurt the year after.

the example with brady is Deion Branch, who left and is virutally doing the same thing he was with NE.

I mean, by your logic it makes them both seemingly the same in that argument.

thats why its pointless... not because "I can't debate with you"

When did I say you couldnt debate with me? I am giving straight facts of Indy receivers having an identical season stat wise from the last year in Indy to there first year with a new team. You cant say just becasue someone got injured that were gonna have a great season. Thats like saying a baseball player ges injured in the first game and hits a homerun and someone saying he wouldve been on pace to hit 162. How many times does a player in the NFL have a great first couple of weeks and die off? Happens quite often.So until Deion Branch, who is still riding his superbowl MVP, is healthy which he has proved he can never be healthy even with the pats to see how he can perform.

 

[Nukleopatra]

''This is pointless.''

Yet he continues on with even more pointless bullshit.

I could go on, but people like this new fuck nuckleowhatever will put words in your mouth which you never said.

You could? You haven't even shut the fuck up yet.

You should design your own T-Shirts, and put ''this is pointless'' on the front.

 

[ThunderHorse]

''This is pointless.''

Yet he continues on with even more pointless bullshit.



You could? You haven't even shut the fuck up yet.

You should design your own T-Shirts, and put ''this is pointless'' on the front.

lol,

oh you mad!?

my bad, I'll just excuse myself from the thread... lmfao

 

[kyhadley]

last I checked a defense can't lead a 2 minute drive to win the superbowl


and also, Brady does not throw screen passes the majority of the time, or even close to, and if he did, it wouldn't be successful. The Colts seem to throw just as many as the Pats (not this most recent season though with Cassel)