UFC 104: Machida vs Shogun 10/24

[SHOGUN]

Everyone keeps picking Machida and saying Shogun is going to get tooled, but I haven't heard too many people explain why. Some people try and bring up Thiago Silva to draw similarities because of their stalkish styles of MT, but in reality he's a poor man's version of Rua and has fought nothing but bottom-tier guys guys prior to the Machida fight. Prior to that fight, his notable win was Houston Alexander.

Machida hasn't faced a striker of Shogun's caliber nor has he fought any top fighters outside of Rashad in his UFC tenure. Are you all simply banking Shogun is going to gas (which is very possible) or it's just the Machida aura that has you all convinced?

One thing that will be interesting is how Machida will react if/when he's gets staggered from a blow. He's been front running his entire career and has never taken many blows in his career, let alone many powershots, so it would be fun to see what happens then.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Everyone keeps picking Machida and saying Shogun is going to get tooled, but I haven't heard too many people explain why. Some people try and bring up Thiago Silva to draw similarities because of their stalkish styles of MT, but in reality he's a poor man's version of Rua and has fought nothing but bottom-tier guys guys prior to the Machida fight. Prior to that fight, his notable win was Houston Alexander.

Machida hasn't faced a striker of Shogun's caliber nor has he fought any top fighters outside of Rashad in his UFC tenure. Are you all simply banking Shogun is going to gas (which is very possible) or it's just the Machida aura that has you all convinced?

One thing that will be interesting is how Machida will react if/when he's gets staggered from a blow. He's been front running his entire career and has never taken many blows in his career, let alone many powershots, so it would be fun to see what happens then.

UFC Rua has been nowhere near as dominant as Pride Rua.

I havent seen anything thats led me to believe hes going to go out and wreck anyone. We all know he can...but few think he will. Mental block , Injury , Lack of roids who knows.I dont see it as a deterioration of skill. Im just not willing to bet this is the fight hell do it in. But I wouldn't be shocked if he did. Rua is has flirted with Vitor status of who the fuck knows what youre gonna get on any given fight.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Shogun struggled to finish a completely gassed, old, and washed up Mark Coleman...and nearly ended up losing the fight. Coleman came out of that fight a bigger star than Shogun, because of the heart he displayed.

I'm not even sure why he's in a title fight, considering he really has no momentum from beating two washed up, punch drunk guys, and he has no recent track record as any kind of draw.

With that said, he is capable of getting the KO. I just hope he dosent, and I don't think he will.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Circumstances people, circumstances. Everyone was saying the same thing about Nog before he beat Couture, you can't disregard everything these guys were up against in their prior UFC fights. We have every reason to believe that the "old" Shogun is back.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Not really. Nog looked fine until the Mir fight.
Nog is also 100 yrs old in MMA years. Ruas still young whats his excuse for the lame showings ?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Circumstances people, circumstances. Everyone was saying the same thing about Nog before he beat Couture, you can't disregard everything these guys were up against in their prior UFC fights. We have every reason to believe that the "old" Shogun is back.

Based on what?

-He lost to Forrest

-He looked horrible and struggled to finish a washed up, punch drunk, completely gassed Mark Coleman. In fact, Coleman almost ended up finishing him.

-He beat a washed up Chuck Liddell

In a company that hands out unearned title shots all the time, he might be the least worthy title challenger in recent memory.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Not really. Nog looked fine until the Mir fight.
Nog is also 100 yrs old in MMA years. Ruas still young whats his excuse for the lame showings ?

All true.

Also, the Nog/Randy fight was essentially an elimination match between two guys with alot to prove coming off weak showings.

Rua is in a title match after two bad showings and a quick win over a guy who was sent into forced retirement because he cant beat anyone anymore.

 

[SHOGUN]

Not really. Nog looked fine until the Mir fight.
Nog is also 100 yrs old in MMA years. Ruas still young whats his excuse for the lame showings ?

Injuries and trying to fight before they're fully healed. He went into the Griffin fight with a torn ACL, and the Coleman fight not long after another surgery on his same leg. He was just cleared for activity a couple weeks before the Coleman fight.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Not really. Nog looked fine until the Mir fight.
Nog is also 100 yrs old in MMA years. Ruas still young whats his excuse for the lame showings ?

C'mon, he had multiple knee surgeries, got married, and had to adjust to fighting in the cage.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Based on what?

-He lost to Forrest

-He looked horrible and struggled to finish a washed up, punch drunk, completely gassed Mark Coleman. In fact, Coleman almost ended up finishing him.

-He beat a washed up Chuck Liddell

In a company that hands out unearned title shots all the time, he might be the least worthy title challenger in recent memory.

Shogun's career didn't begin in the UFC. I'm just very confused as to how you guys can call Saku one of the best fighters of all time and consider Shogun the least deserving contender at 205?? There's something wrong with that picture.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Shogun's career didn't begin in the UFC. I'm just very confused as to how you guys can call Saku one of the best fighters of all time and consider Shogun the least deserving contender at 205?? There's something wrong with that picture.

I'd rip Saku if he was getting a title shot, too. He isnt. He's used as a gimmick draw at this point, no more no less.

Shoguns UFC resume is spotty. I just dont see how they can justify him getting a title shot for the UFC 205 title based on his UFC body of work.

His PRIDE days are ancient history at this point. The Griffin fight was what, almost two years ago?

 

[SHOGUN]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF2-2NFHXp4"]YouTube - Mauricio "Shogun" Rua trains for the Belt UFC 104[/ame]

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

W2B is pretty much cosigning all that ive been saying for a long time. That being said.. Rua's PAST HISTORY is strong enough that I can be ok with him being in the title picture. When hes fighting at his best he is a top world talent.. he just hasnt been anything close to near that in the UFC.

 

[Steel Mamba]

I'd rip Saku if he was getting a title shot, too. He isnt. He's used as a gimmick draw at this point, no more no less.

Shoguns UFC resume is spotty. I just dont see how they can justify him getting a title shot for the UFC 205 title based on his UFC body of work.

His PRIDE days are ancient history at this point. The Griffin fight was what, almost two years ago?

They don't base it solely on a fighters UFC resume, that would be silly to do so. Wouldn't Fedor come in and get an immediate title shot? Rampage was offered an immediate title shot based off his work in Pride.

The guy has lost one fight in the UFC, this isn't boxing where one loss or bad performance will all of a sudden make you irrelevant. He's still one of the best fighters in that division and I really don't think there's anyone else more deserving of a shot aside from Rampage. Who else would you put in there besides Shogun or Rampage?

Plus, styles make fights and it's very rare that the UFC actually puts together a bout that's this interesting stylistically. Usually we get hyped up fights that are shitty matches stylistically, Hendo/Bisping for example. So to see them put this bout together is a great breath of fresh air.

 

[Liquidrob]

The UFC (any org for that matter) does not a have a legit title shot system, so to say Shogun doesnt deserve it is silly

Anyway, I am going with Shogun, I think he can put enough pressure on Machida in all ranges to get the win, Machida is a stud, but Shogun will catch him at some point

 

[Liquidrob]

All of Shoguns UFC problems were because of injuries and cardio, his style is based off having great cardio

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

They don't base it solely on a fighters UFC resume, that would be silly to do so. Wouldn't Fedor come in and get an immediate title shot? Rampage was offered an immediate title shot based off his work in Pride.

The guy has lost one fight in the UFC, this isn't boxing where one loss or bad performance will all of a sudden make you irrelevant. He's still one of the best fighters in that division and I really don't think there's anyone else more deserving of a shot aside from Rampage. Who else would you put in there besides Shogun or Rampage?

Plus, styles make fights and it's very rare that the UFC actually puts together a bout that's this interesting stylistically. Usually we get hyped up fights that are shitty matches stylistically, Hendo/Bisping for example. So to see them put this bout together is a great breath of fresh air.

Fedor would be getting an immediate title shot due to his complete and total dominance of the division, including beating two former UFC champs with minimal effort.

Rampage was came in right after PRIDE folded, and won a tune up vs. Marvin Eastman.

Rampage was hot when he got his shot, and the story would be the same for Fedor.

Shogun is coming off of a loss, an ugly win vs a guy he should have not struggled with at all, and a win vs a guy who is washed up. The reason his PRIDE resume shouldnt be relevent is because it was YEARS ago.

And to rob's point, i'm well aware that most of these title shots are bs, but that dosent mean we have to like it or pretend its fair. We can call it out for what it is. Shogun is getting a shot because there really isnt anyone else to give it to. He dosnet deserve it, but it is what it is, and I hope he losses.

 

[Steel Mamba]

So who then would be a better choice over Shogun right now?

Also keep in mind that the UFC wanted Rampage to fight Chuck in his first UFC match, they were not in favor of the tuneup fight against Eastman and really Rampage hadn't looked impressive in his prior fights either at that point. IMO to this day he just hasn't seemed like the same fighter since his loss to Shogun.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

All of Shoguns UFC problems were because of injuries and cardio, his style is based off having great cardio

Shogun was all about finishing dudes.. not exactly having a style that requires great cardio like someone who grinds out victories over 3-5 round fights. Obviously he was put in a spot where he had to grind out some matches and the bad cardio shined thru.. if hes recovered from the knee injury he obviously can regain his form, but it remains to be seen. Still doesnt really change that Shogun ended up getting the title shot by default, and thats fine, it happens.. but I still think Machida is going to tear him a new one. If Shogun is even a glimpse of what we saw against Coleman, he stands zero chance against Machida.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Shogun was all about finishing dudes.. not exactly having a style that requires great cardio like someone who grinds out victories over 3-5 round fights. Obviously he was put in a spot where he had to grind out some matches and the bad cardio shined thru.. if hes recovered from the knee injury he obviously can regain his form, but it remains to be seen. Still doesnt really change that Shogun ended up getting the title shot by default, and thats fine, it happens.. but I still think Machida is going to tear him a new one. If Shogun is even a glimpse of what we saw against Coleman, he stands zero chance against Machida.

Shogun is a relentless and aggressive fighter and it takes some serious cardio to fight at the pace that he likes to maintain, whether it's 1 round or 5 rounds. So, it's not about him trying to endure long fights, it's about having the cardio to inflict that relentless aggression that has made him the fighter that he is. With the injuries gone and him being able to train properly now his cardio should be back which means the aggressive Shogun should be back as well.