UFC 98: Machida vs Evans

[Liquidrob]

I'm glad you actually brought up Chuck because that helps prove my point. Chuck was a product of his environment as well and was also fortunate that there weren't any great or technical strikers in the UFC's LHW division when he had his long reign as champ. I know it sounds cruel, but Chuck's striking was never good and it still isn't. That's why he has been getting dropped lately, it's not due to his age because Rampage schooled him back in 03 when Chuck was still in his prime. He's still the same fighter today, the only difference is there's now a ton of good strikers in the UFC that are able to expose the huge holes in his standup game.

Fedor is a little bit different only because he's much more willing to be versatile and doesn't rely on his striking. But, I'm telling you if he starts facing good strikers who can keep the fight standing then he's going to be in trouble. There's just no other way around it unless he cleans up his boxing. Chuck didn't fight strikers and everyone thought he was one of the best strikers ever, then he starts facing guys with some standup skill and he gets exposed. Same thing could potentially happen to Fedor, it's no coincidence.

Chucks striking was good because he tailored it for grapplers, that was his gameplan because that what the UFC was heavy on, once they sarted to bring strikers he couldnt adapt, he got stuck in his old ways, even in 03 all he was facing was grapplers, thats how Chuck trains

Like I said, you keep saying if Fedor 'starts' to face good strikers he will be in trouble, the only problem with your theory is he has faced some great strikers and hasnt had any problems, lol, he has faced better strikers that Silva and Machida, those are facts, you still havent shown me any strikers that Silva and Machida have faced that are better than AA and Cro Cop because you cant!

Huge difference with Chuck and Fedor, not a little

Chuck against rampage twice, beatdown, Chuck against rashad put to sleep, Chuck against Jardine, beat, ect...

Fedor against Cro Cop, worked him on his feet and had Cro Cop looking sad, Fedor against AA he put into a deep sleep

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

wait, so you're saying there is not 5 elite fighters in each weight class?

ok, I'll name some

HW

Fedor
Barnett
AA
I'll throw in Brock and Mir and leave Tim out for you, but Tim is argueable because of who he fought and Mir and Brock are the 'champs'
Brock
Mir

LHW

Machida
Rampage
Forrest
Shogun
Rashad

MW

Silva
Lawler
Okami
Belfort
Winner of Bisping/Hendo
Depending on weight, Mousasi is right there at MW and on the verge of LHW
Winner of Maia and Nate is right there also

WW

GSP
Alves
Fitch
Hughes
Jake Shields

LW

Penn
Aoki
Hansen
JZ
Florian
With guys like Alvarez, Thompson, Griffin, etc.. right behind them

So, there are atleast 5 a weight class, throw in Rich at MW or LHW if he does something, alos left out Wand and Cro Cop if they make a splash, Nick Diaz wherever you put him, I'm sure I''m missing more, this is just off the top of my head

The bolded/underlined are "elite".
The rest are top tier contenders.
Shogun, Hendo , Aoki have had sub par performances but can easily put out a great fight and raise there grade.

I have to differentiate. You CANT be elite just based on your ranking. Thats like putting Kllitshcrap in the same class as Pacman/Mayweather. Definite difference between blue chip guys and next level.

 

[Liquidrob]

Yes, finally some people are starting to come around. & look I'm not trying to bash Fedor at all, he's still by far the best MMA HW in the history of the sport. But, he has one glaring hole, and that's his standup. That's all I'm trying to say.

You keep saying it is a glaring hole, but has faced some of the best strikers in MMA and has dispatched of them all, thats the problem with your statement

I am using facts about fighters he has beat, you are creating mythical fighters that dont currently exist

Ok, I agree with you than, if Fedor fights a fighter with Pro Level Boxing hands, K1 level kicks, gold medal olympic level wreslting, sub defense and submission skills of a ADCC winner than I think he might lose

You happy now? lol

 

[Liquidrob]

Anderson Silva does not take a lot of damage, same with Machida. With Machida, that dude just bobs and weaves his head away whenever his opponent goes for a jab or a cross. It's hilarious/amazing watching Machida avoid taking a strike.

With Silva, people are just too scared to stand and go for a combo. Rightfully so, I'd fear for my life if Silva ever got me in a Muay Thai clinch.

Is Fedor that great on his feet besides his obvious KO power? If Arlovski doesn't jump like a fool, was he about to hurt Fedor or finish the fight?

I said it before and will say it again, that round is becoming the most overrated round in MMA history, the only thing AA was going on to do was win the round, lol @ hurt, Fedor did not take 1 clean shot, besides a push kick that pissed him off enough to put AA's head into orbit there was nothing you could pull from that fight

It was not even 4 minutes of action, did AA's hands look sharp? yes, did he damage Fedor? No, did Fedor KO him? yes

You dont see anything in Fedors stand up besides his power? You dont see his speed, his relentless flurries, the ability to avoid a clean shot, going 15 minutes with Cro Cop and winning the fight on his feet, please

Yes, Silva and Machida look really great, but they have never faced any fighters as good as in the striking department as Cro Cop and AA, you think Silva is throwing behind the back kicks against a Cro Cop? Hell no, you think Machida is not going to take some shots against a fast, counter style like AA with his level of boxing?

Franklin, Bonnar, Cote, Leben, etc...dont equal the striking ability of Cro Cop or AA, the best striker that either have them has faced is Rashad and he is still coming into his own and forgot about the entire MMA gameplan

 

[Liquidrob]

The bolded/underlined are "elite".
The rest are top tier contenders.
Shogun, Hendo , Aoki have had sub par performances but can easily put out a great fight and raise there grade.

I have to differentiate. You CANT be elite just based on your ranking. Thats like putting Kllitshcrap in the same class as Pacman/Mayweather. Definite difference between blue chip guys and next level.

Seems like you are splitting hairs, there is a fine line between elite and top tier in your opinion

you are also putting to much stock in 1 bad performance for some of these fighters, Shougn was top 5 p4p talks just 2 fights ago, than he fights forrest off an injury and beats coleman and chuck now he is now not elite?

Aoki lost at 170, he is still a beast at 155, just like BJ is at 155, hendo was holding 2 belts and than lost a close 1 to Rampage, lost to Silva and than beat franklin and right in line for another title shot

Fitch has 1 loss in the UFC, a 5 rounder to GSP, Alves is the number 1 contender for 170

Why is Hansen not elite? Him and Aoki fight the top LW all the time, something BJ never does even though I think he is the best at 155, his 155 resume isnt that impressive since he beat Gomi a couple years ago

You are just cutting it to thin IMO, these guys I listed are pretty much the elite of there weight class and the sport, you can come up with different reasons why they fall, but these guys are the guys

So looking at your list there is only 1 elite fighter at HW, WW and LW, come on

 

[Steel Mamba]

Chucks striking was good because he tailored it for grapplers,

hm shouldn't you be saying the same about Chuck as you have with Silva and Machida?

It is relevent for them to beat some top level stikers if you want to say they are great strikers, Silva has fought kickboxing and lost against Pele, has fought boxing and hasnt done that well, he looks pretty when he fights guys he is way better than, but until he beats some top flight strikers you cant really tell

Like Sherk, pretty on the pads, never does well striking in fights, BJ boxed him up with just a jab and a little reach, I wouldnt call Sherk an elite striker

Silva and Machida seem to be great MMA strikers, but they havent done it against top strikers yet

You say Fedor isnt a great striker but has KO'ed 1 of the best technical boxers in MMA and took it to K1 level strikers, something neither Silva or Machida has done

So, why do you down those two for not fighting strikers, but give Chuck a pass when he didn't fight strikers either and when he did he got dropped.....

 

[Liquidrob]

hm shouldn't you be saying the same about Chuck as you have with Silva and Machida?

So, why do you down those two for not fighting strikers, but give Chuck a pass when he didn't fight strikers either and when he did he got dropped.....

I didnt give Chuck a pass, I said he was a great MMA striker against grapplers and got exposed against quality strikers, Chuck also has fought better strikers than both Machida and Silva

I also have never said Silva and Machida are not great, I just said you cant say how amazing they are yet because they havent fought any quality strikers when comparing them against Fedor

Are they great strikers? Yes it seems they are, Have they beat any great strikers? No

 

[RosettaStoned]

 

[Liquidrob]

LMAO

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

lololol at the gif.