Who should win Offensive ROTY?

[Argath]

None of Griffins success has anything to do with Morris and all of Lucks has everything to do with Wayne? :lol: Defenses can focus heavily on Wayne and have very little to worry about. Who is their next big threat? TY Hilton? U cant roll covg any where vs the Skins because of that gimmick offense which benefits Griffin a great deal in the passing game. It would be a sin and a shame if he threw a ton of picks when he is constantly throwing to wide open targets in single covg.

Never said that Andrews Luck had everything to do with Reggie Wayne. Reading comprehension. Just disproving an argument against RG3 that he "has better WRs to throw to"


I still don't understand how you can undermine a QBs success because if the system he's in. It's not RG3s call what offense the Redskins run. It is his job to execute the offense given to him which he has done phenomenally. If this offense is so easy as you say, why aren't opposing teams ever stopping it?


For the record, using the same site advancednflstats.com which was used to try and discredit RG3. RG3 actually leads the league in air yards per attempt (which takes out all YAC in passing statistics) with 6.6. Above Tom Brady and Peyton Manning actually. Andrew Luck is all the way at number 20 out of 39 with 4.9.


Andrew Luck might chuck it deep more than RG3 but so does Rex Grossman and Jay Cutler. In fact when sorting between the 2 I figured i would share this..

Top10 %Deep (Percent of passes thrown 15 yards past line of scrimmage)

1. Jay Cutler
2. Andrew Luck
3. Josh Freeman
4. Colin Kaepernick
5. Joe Flacco
6. Russell Wilson
7. Cam Newton
8. Matt Stafford
9. Brady Quinn
10. Mike Vick
29. RG3


Top10 air yards per completion (pass yards per attempt without YAC)

1. RG3
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Colin Kaepernick
5. Matt Ryan
6. Aaron Rodgers
7. Cam Newton
8. Drew Brees
9. Matt Schaub
10. Tony Romo
20. Andrew Luck


Hmmmm which statistic seems to have the better QBs


Also for the record, Andrew Luck was 36 out of 39 QBs this year in completion percentage. RG3.. #5

 

[Sportsbuck]

U cant roll covg any where vs the Skins because of that gimmick offense which benefits Griffin a great deal in the passing game.

I'm sick and tired of this BS logic of that being a college offense, or a 'gimmick' offense. Is using scheme and overwhelming a defense a gimmick? Is it purely collegian to use space, numbers, and forcing defenders to RRR (read-react-run)?

Much like college football has evolved immensely in the past decade with the rise of the spread attack, the NFL is beginning to as well with the rise of the mobile QB and implementation of concepts to make them the utmost successful. What you call a gimmick offense won't be going away any time soon.

 

[SethMode]

I'm sick and tired of this BS logic of that being a college offense, or a 'gimmick' offense. Is using scheme and overwhelming a defense a gimmick? Is it purely collegian to use space, numbers, and forcing defenders to RRR (read-react-run)?

Much like college football has evolved immensely in the past decade with the rise of the spread attack, the NFL is beginning to as well with the rise of the mobile QB and implementation of concepts to make them the utmost successful. What you call a gimmick offense won't be going away any time soon.

Let's also not forget that this is a guy that can't shut the fuck up about Josh Freeman of all QBs, either.

 

[Maynard]

everyone expected big things from luck and RG3 - nobody, not even pete carroll expected wilson to start until after the 3rd preseason game. matt flynn was the man. Wilson came from out of nowhere to lead that team into the playoffs and possibly the division title.

he gets my vote

 

[JimLeavy59]

everyone expected big things from luck and RG3 - nobody, not even pete carroll expected wilson to start until after the 3rd preseason game. matt flynn was the man. Wilson came from out of nowhere to lead that team into the playoffs and possibly the division title.

he gets my vote

No that run game and defense lead them into the playoffs.

 

[SethMode]

No that run game and defense lead them into the playoffs.

I am wishy-washy on Wilson, but this is an exhausting argument. So he's not having a good season because he has a good defense? If we can argue that Luck turned around the poopy Colts, we can argue the same for the Hawks I'd say. In today's NFL it is becoming increasingly evident that one small thing can turn a shit bum team into a Super Bowl contender. Let's remember that before we poo on Wilson and act like he had nothing to do with their crazy good season.

 

[Bear Pand]

:rofl:

9% is such a huge difference. That equates to 1488 YAC in RG3s stats to 1613 YAC in Lucks total yardage. You take that out and their numbers look like..

RG3: 1,612
Andrew Luck: 2570

Gee looks to be the same difference in yards

OK idiot. I wasn't posting that to point out their yardage, I was pointing out your flawed argument that Griffin doesn't run a dink and dunk offense because his YPC is higher than Luck's. Using YPC as an argument for who does/does not dink and dunk is retarded. When RG3 threw a 16 yard pass to Garcon, and Garcon ran it in for an 88 yard score you're giving RG3 credit for throwing 88 yards. It makes more sense to look at air yards, how far the ball travels in the air before it's caught...to gauge how far a QB tends to throw the ball.

For the record, using the same site advancednflstats.com which was used to try and discredit RG3. RG3 actually leads the league in air yards per attempt (which takes out all YAC in passing statistics) with 6.6. Above Tom Brady and Peyton Manning actually. Andrew Luck is all the way at number 20 out of 39 with 4.9.

Look at air yards per completion genius. How far the average successful pass travels in the air.

Griffins passes on average travel 6.09 yards in the air before they are caught. With Luck that number is 6.91, and for reference that number is 6.70 for Wilson.

---

And there's nothing wrong with running this type of dink/dunk offense, but the Skins def do it.

 

[Bear Pand]

I am wishy-washy on Wilson, but this is an exhausting argument. So he's not having a good season because he has a good defense? If we can argue that Luck turned around the poopy Colts, we can argue the same for the Hawks I'd say. In today's NFL it is becoming increasingly evident that one small thing can turn a shit bum team into a Super Bowl contender. Let's remember that before we poo on Wilson and act like he had nothing to do with their crazy good season.

Luck is responsible for a larger share of the Colt's success than Wilson is for the Seahawks. You can break it down by how much off the offense he contributes to in terms of yards: Luck accounts for 80% of the Colt's offensive yardage vs 63% for Wilson. You can break it down in terms of points: Luck's 26TDs account for 55% of the Colts points scored vs 50% for Wilson. Also Luck already has 7 game winning drives this year in 10 wins, vs just 3 for Wilson.

It's also obvious if you just watch or evaluate the teams around them. Luck shoulders a heavier load than Wilson.

That being said I'd give Wilson ROY over Luck.

 

[BigBucs]

I'm sick and tired of this BS logic of that being a college offense, or a 'gimmick' offense. Is using scheme and overwhelming a defense a gimmick? Is it purely collegian to use space, numbers, and forcing defenders to RRR (read-react-run)?

Much like college football has evolved immensely in the past decade with the rise of the spread attack, the NFL is beginning to as well with the rise of the mobile QB and implementation of concepts to make them the utmost successful. What you call a gimmick offense won't be going away any time soon.

Not surprising a Carolina fan is trying to argue that their scheme is amateur. Tell em how things went once teams got a seasons worth of film.

Let's also not forget that this is a guy that can't shut the fuck up about Josh Freeman of all QBs, either.

1. Thats a myth 2. Has nothing to do with anything we are discussing. 3. I watch all of Washingtons games unfortunately so throwing stats at me means nothing.

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

Merry Griff-Mas!!!!!!!

 

[Argath]

OK idiot. I wasn't posting that to point out their yardage, I was pointing out your flawed argument that Griffin doesn't run a dink and dunk offense because his YPC is higher than Luck's. Using YPC as an argument for who does/does not dink and dunk is retarded. When RG3 threw a 16 yard pass to Garcon, and Garcon ran it in for an 88 yard score you're giving RG3 credit for throwing 88 yards. It makes more sense to look at air yards, how far the ball travels in the air before it's caught...to gauge how far a QB tends to throw the ball.



Look at air yards per completion genius. How far the average successful pass travels in the air.

Griffins passes on average travel 6.09 yards in the air before they are caught. With Luck that number is 6.91, and for reference that number is 6.70 for Wilson.

---

And there's nothing wrong with running this type of dink/dunk offense, but the Skins def do it.

Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers and Andy Dalton all have a greater %YAC than RG3. Matt Schaub, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees have greater percentages than Andrew Luck. Are you really going with this stat as your reason why Luck should win OROY? With your logic Luck deserves MVP of the league.

In fact Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger have practically the same percentage as RG3. You know which QBs are closer to Andrew Luck in this category? Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, Matt Stafford and Ryan Tannehill are all within 2% of Andrew Luck. Guess which QB leads in this category.. Just take a wild guess...







Mark Sanchez





:yao:




Definitely a real measure of good QBs in the league. Please hit me with another stat comparing RG3 and Luck. I'm willing to bet RG3 is closer to Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers while Andrew Luck seems to be fitting right in with Jay Cutler.

 

[Bear Pand]

Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers and Andy Dalton all have a greater %YAC than RG3. Matt Schaub, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees have greater percentages than Andrew Luck. Are you really going with this stat as your reason why Luck should win OROY? With your logic Luck deserves MVP of the league.

In fact Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger have practically the same percentage as RG3. You know which QBs are closer to Andrew Luck in this category? Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, Matt Stafford and Ryan Tannehill are all within 2% of Andrew Luck. Guess which QB leads in this category.. Just take a wild guess...







Mark Sanchez





:yao:




Definitely a real measure of good QBs in the league. Please hit me with another stat comparing RG3 and Luck. I'm willing to bet RG3 is closer to Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers while Andrew Luck seems to be fitting right in with Jay Cutler.

Are you retarded or something?

I already said in this thread Luck shouldn't win OROY.

Wilson should win. Dudes thrown less passes than RG3 yet has 5 more touchdowns, he's a threat to break the rookie record for TD passes and has been pretty good running the ball too.

SMH at people arguing for Luck. And LOL at people arguing that Luck has to more to work with than the other two.

So no, this is not the basis for some pro Luck rookie of the year argument. And no I'm not using it as a basis to judge QBs.

I'm just pointing out how obviously wrong this is:

And for those who say RG3 only has dink and dump plays making his completion percentage and QBR better than Luck..

RG3 Avg Yards per Completion = 8.27
Luck Avg Yards per Completion = 6.98
Wilson Avg Yards per Completion = 7.67

One of the main reasons RG3's completion percentage is high absolutely IS because he throws shorter passes.

 

[Argath]

Yea but what I'm trying to say is that really shouldn't be a factor in this conversation. Most other great QBs in the league throw the same amount of short passes and benefit from it yet no one brings this topic up. The type of offense run should not even be in discussions at the end of the year. It's not up to the QB to choose the offense it's his job to execute it. How can you blame RG3 for executing his offense to damn near perfection?

 

[Bear Pand]

Yea but what I'm trying to say is that really shouldn't be a factor in this conversation. Most other great QBs in the league throw the same amount of short passes and benefit from it yet no one brings this topic up. The type of offense run should not even be in discussions at the end of the year. It's not up to the QB to choose the offense it's his job to execute it. How can you blame RG3 for executing his offense to damn near perfection?

If this is the case why are you making this insecure ass argument that RG3 doesn't dink and dunk all day in the first place?

 

[Sportsbuck]

Not surprising a Carolina fan is trying to argue that their scheme is amateur. Tell em how things went once teams got a seasons worth of film.

You are comparing what Carolina runs with what Washington runs, which are two schemes that are different in their design. Nice try though.

Continue on with your idiocy.

 

[Argath]

If this is the case why are you making this insecure ass argument that RG3 doesn't dink and dunk all day in the first place?

Please point me to where I said he doesn't throw short passes. My argument this entire time has been yes he does throw short passes but so does most QBs in the league. Even 40% of Lucks yards are YAC as you pointed out.

Perhaps I worded my initial response wrong but this has been what I've been saying this entire thread. You can't discredit a QB for being successful in his system no matter what the system is.

 

[NAHSTE]

ITT: COLLEGE OFFENSES R UNFAIR AND SHUD BE ILLEGAL

 

[Hasselbeck]

I made a definitve statement. I contributed plenty. And I shall be correct as well.

Like when you said the Seahawks weren't a playoff team?

:tellmemore:

Russell Wilson's last 8 games (you know when he's been lucky)
1638 passing yards, 17 TD, 3 INT
312 rushing yards, 3 TD
6-2 record

He's so lucky though to have about 2000 yards of offense and 20 touchdowns with only 3 turnovers in his last 8 games though.

I'd give ROY to RG3, but saying Wilson has been lucky is one of the most idiotic things you've ever said (amazing considering you're one giant ass idiot)

 

[ram29jackson]

Like when you said the Seahawks weren't a playoff team?

:tellmemore:

Russell Wilson's last 8 games (you know when he's been lucky)
1638 passing yards, 17 TD, 3 INT
312 rushing yards, 3 TD
6-2 record

He's so lucky though to have about 2000 yards of offense and 20 touchdowns with only 3 turnovers in his last 8 games though.

I'd give ROY to RG3, but saying Wilson has been lucky is one of the most idiotic things you've ever said (amazing considering you're one giant ass idiot)

LOL who cares about Seattle making the Playoffs ? they wont get far.

anyway...if this is voted by fans, Wilson will not win. He is part of the evil team that stole a win from the Packers. Plain and simple.

 

[ram29jackson]

Like when you said the Seahawks weren't a playoff team?

:tellmemore:

Russell Wilson's last 8 games (you know when he's been lucky)
1638 passing yards, 17 TD, 3 INT
312 rushing yards, 3 TD
6-2 record

He's so lucky though to have about 2000 yards of offense and 20 touchdowns with only 3 turnovers in his last 8 games though.

I'd give ROY to RG3, but saying Wilson has been lucky is one of the most idiotic things you've ever said (amazing considering you're one giant ass idiot)

what you fail to realize is that doesnt really mean these guys are good. It just shows how easy it is for everyone now to succeed anyway.

Look, .. three teams with rookie starting QBs and the 49ers throw in a second year guy in the middle of the season and they are all in the playoffs....?

Thats pathetic. I'm willing to accept things as they are and enjoy them. But dont tell me its because they are superior athletes etc. Its because the league is so watered down now that all these guys end up looking better then they really are.