Will Devin Hester be a HOF'er?

[Senser81]

Hester getting in over guys like Tim Brown and Curtis Martin would be a shame.

Here is my argument against Hester...

Martin - 100 TDs
Brown - 105 TDs
Hester - 30 TDs

 

[Saluki]

Hester getting in over guys like Tim Brown and Curtis Martin would be a shame.

Here is my argument against Hester...

Martin - 100 TDs
Brown - 105 TDs
Hester - 30 TDs

Who said he'd get in over them? Those guys would def get in before Hester, like i said if Hester gets in it won't be for a few decades. But i can def see him in there eventually.

 

[jms493]

Hester getting in over guys like Tim Brown and Curtis Martin would be a shame.

Here is my argument against Hester...

Martin - 100 TDs
Brown - 105 TDs
Hester - 30 TDs

agreed but what is the percentage of touches to TDs there? Hester sees the ball a fraction of the amount of time those guys did.

 

[Senser81]

agreed but what is the percentage of touches to TDs there? Hester sees the ball a fraction of the amount of time those guys did.

But then thats using Mike Vick logic...where Vick's worth to his team increases when he doesn't play.

Hester is a great return guy, but I don't see how his total contribution is somehow greater than every-down players. It would be like saying a good DH is better than a good position player.

 

[jms493]

But then thats using Mike Vick logic...where Vick's worth to his team increases when he doesn't play.

Hester is a great return guy, but I don't see how his total contribution is somehow greater than every-down players. It would be like saying a good DH is better than a good position player.

I agree with you though as Brown and Martin had great impact for very long periods of time. Hester is a long shot as of now. He would have to continue this run for 5-6 more years.

 

[FirstTimer]

But then thats using Mike Vick logic...where Vick's worth to his team increases when he doesn't play.

Hester is a great return guy, but I don't see how his total contribution is somehow greater than every-down players. It would be like saying a good DH is better than a good position player.

Srs question:
You're running the HOF. Does Devin Hester get in?

I guess I'm not clear wheather you are saying he won't get in based on the way things are being voted on now or if you don't think he belongs in general.

 

[Senser81]

I agree with you though as Brown and Martin had great impact for very long periods of time. Hester is a long shot as of now. He would have to continue this run for 5-6 more years.

Agreed, but even then, how would you compare Hester's contribution to guys like Brown and Martin? There is never going to be a point when Hester passes really good every-down players. Would you argue that Manny Mota is more deserving of the baseball Hall of Fame than Steve Garvey, because while Garvey played 1B, Mota deserves to be in as a PINCH-HITTER?

 

[Senser81]

Srs question:
You're running the HOF. Does Devin Hester get in?

I guess I'm not clear wheterhy ou sar saying he won't get in based on the way things are being voted on now or if you don't think he belongs in general.

If Hester retired today, no. If he continues to be a great returner for the next 5-6 years, perhaps. But unless he becomes a great WR (doubtful) he'll always be a borderline candidate to me.

 

[jms493]

Srs question:
You're running the HOF. Does Devin Hester get in?

I guess I'm not clear wheterhy ou sar saying he won't get in based on the way things are being voted on now or if you don't think he belongs in general.

no...

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

For me, a specialist has to be exceptional. Hester is the best return man of all time, but for me he needs to distance himself further from the pack before I would consider him a hall of fame player. I'm not calling him a hall of famer right now because it's entirely possible he never returns another kick for a TD. And if that's the case, he isn't all that much better than your Eric Metcalf's and Brian Mitchell's, and Dante Hall's and Mel Gray's.

If Hester was an above average WR at worst, it would help his case (or not hurt it). The fact he is a below average WR who already flamed out as a DB hurts his case, as it should. The majority of his time is spent playing a position he isn't very good at. How can we put someone like that in the Hall of Fame? When you total up his on field time, he probably hurts his team more than he helps it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Who said he'd get in over them? Those guys would def get in before Hester, like i said if Hester gets in it won't be for a few decades. But i can def see him in there eventually.

I hate hate hate hate HATE HATE this argument. I hate it in baseball, I hate it in football.

"I don't think he's a first ballot HOF'er, but I think he belongs"

If you are a hall of famer, you are a hall of famer. There are no separate rooms in the building for "first ballot", and no tiers. Once you are in, you're in with Walter Payton, Lawrence Taylor, Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas, Anthony Munoz, and Jerry Rice.

The first ballot nonsense is voters stroking their own egos, sending a message, and making themselves the story, when it shouldn't be about them. Nothing changes about these players resumes once they retire. It's stupid.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

As a return specialist he is the greatest of all time. He was almost always the most dangerous guy and best player on the field.His teams SB run he was the most important player on either side of the ball. What he did to his teams field position is similar to Deion taking away half the field , or intentional walking of Bonds in BB.

Thats not Mel Gray or Dante Hall territory at all.

WR and RB are far more important positions but Brown and Martin were never the best at there position or close to it IMO. I think both each led the league in a category once a piece ?

Special teams guys are a dime a dozen. But Hester along with Vinitieri were point scorers , were difference makers in big games , and were clearly the cream of the crop in Hesters case at least the best to ever do it.


Honest question you have the 20th pick in next years draft. All 3 players are once again 21 years old. Who do you draft ? Martin , Brown , or Hester ?


Not saying its an easy case but Id put in Hester before Brown or Martin I think. If the Bears hadnt wasted 2 years of him as a no.1/2 WR he'd likely have any records of any pertinence and would be padding at this point.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

As a return specialist he is the greatest of all time. He was almost always the most dangerous guy and best player on the field.His teams SB run he was the most important player on either side of the ball. What he did to his teams field position is similar to Deion taking away half the field , or intentional walking of Bonds in BB.

Thats not Mel Gray or Dante Hall territory at all.

WR and RB are far more important positions but Brown and Martin were never the best at there position or close to it IMO. I think both each led the league in a category once a piece ?

Special teams guys are a dime a dozen. But Hester along with Vinitieri were point scorers , were difference makers in big games , and were clearly the cream of the crop in Hesters case at least the best to ever do it.


Honest question you have the 20th pick in next years draft. All 3 players are once again 21 years old. Who do you draft ? Martin , Brown , or Hester ?


Not saying its an easy case but Id put in Hester before Brown or Martin I think. If the Bears hadnt wasted 2 years of him as a no.1/2 WR he'd likely have any records of any pertinence and would be padding at this point.

Vinitieri is not a HOF'er, either. He's no better than Jason Hanson or David Akers or a bunch of other guys. He was put in a position to make 3 or 4 kicks that the others weren't. His overall body of work is no better. I don't understand the mindset that he is some sort of lock, while great players like Cris Carter fail to get in year after year.

 

[Sharkweather]

Vinitieri is a no. But Hester is better at one area of the game than anyone who has ever played the game before.

That is HoF to me.

 

[Senser81]

Honest question you have the 20th pick in next years draft. All 3 players are once again 21 years old. Who do you draft ? Martin , Brown , or Hester ?

I agree with this thinking, but IMO it would be a no-brainer that teams would take Curtis Martin or Tim Brown over Devin Hester.

 

[shag773]

As a return specialist he is the greatest of all time. He was almost always the most dangerous guy and best player on the field.His teams SB run he was the most important player on either side of the ball. What he did to his teams field position is similar to Deion taking away half the field , or intentional walking of Bonds in BB.

Thats not Mel Gray or Dante Hall territory at all.

WR and RB are far more important positions but Brown and Martin were never the best at there position or close to it IMO. I think both each led the league in a category once a piece ?

Special teams guys are a dime a dozen. But Hester along with Vinitieri were point scorers , were difference makers in big games , and were clearly the cream of the crop in Hesters case at least the best to ever do it.


Honest question you have the 20th pick in next years draft. All 3 players are once again 21 years old. Who do you draft ? Martin , Brown , or Hester ?


Not saying its an easy case but Id put in Hester before Brown or Martin I think. If the Bears hadnt wasted 2 years of him as a no.1/2 WR he'd likely have any records of any pertinence and would be padding at this point.

What "other side of the ball" are you talking about during that run? He wasn't a receiver yet, and as far as I know, he was never considered an even serviceable DB. What Hester does in the return game is no where near what a hall of fame shut down corner brings. He's not on the field enough.

Your reasoning for voting in Hester over Brown and Martin is like saying you would vote Lenny Harris in the MLB HOF over Jim Thome because Harris is the all time pinch hit leader (by a fairly large margin) and Thome was never the best 1B in MLB.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Player A - 12 return TD's, 21 total TD's, 10.5 PR avg, 23.8 KR avg, 162 rec, 1747 rec yards, 242 rushing yards, 19 fumbles, 2x league league in All Purpose Yardage, 2-time Pro Bowl, 1-time All Pro

Player B - 16 return TD's, 30 total TD's, 12.7 PR avg, 24.5 KR avg, 185 rec, 2458 rec yards, 80 rushing yards, 26 fumbles, never led the league in all purpose yardage, 3-time Pro Bowl, 3-time All Pro

Sorry, Devin Hester isn't significantly better than a guy like Dante Hall, who would never sniff the HOF. Devin Hester needs to do more to separate himself from people like Hall. I'm not even sure Hall would be considered #2, and Hester doesn't lap him.

 

[nflman2033]

lol Guy is still a PUNTER.


Hester and Vinitieri will pose some interesting problems for voters down the line.

Hester gets in eventually. His MNF , SB returns are stuff of legend. He was infinitely better than superb Metcalf or the mediocre Mitchell.
Only thing stopping it is someone else like Cribbs somehow catching up or surpassing him.

yeah but Guy was the best player at his position, which is my point if Guy can't get in being the best Punter, then the guy who is the best Returner, shouldn't get in.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Nothing changes about these players resumes once they retire. It's stupid.

I agree with the sentiment that HOFer is HOFer there are no tiers.

However when a guy retires some are bubble players and the performances of his current peers and those immediately after does change perception.
WR position is an easy one to see it. Cris Carter was a first ballot HOFer by most opinions towards the end of his career. But you throw in a gangland of guys who made the century mark and dozen TDs immediately the norm it changes his status. His lack of big plays and mediocre YPC with no memorable games , playoff performances suddenly become issues.

 

[Senser81]

Cris Carter is also highly annoying on TV, thus hurting his candidacy after retirement.