Will Devin Hester be a HOF'er?

[Rush]

I don't watch Bears football (I mean cmon, it's the fucking Bears....snore) but has anyone ever done a full breakdown analysis of his returns?

How much is good ST coaching?
Good ST play?
Luck?

How many returns were his natural ability and how many were aided by overall team play?

What about for other great returners?

I'd be interested in reading an in depth analysis of these plays to see much is truly about him.

All I know is the Bears are 14-3 when he returns one for a touchdown after a quick look at his career touchdown log. I'd imagine it's a combination of all of those factors though.

 

[bucky]

While you could make a case for Tasker, voters would be much more open to the idea of touchdowns, career touchdown leader, etc.

Hester isn't even close to a career touchdown leader. He only has, what, 30? How many does Jerry Rice have?

 

[Rush]

Career leader for returns Bucky....

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

I don't watch Bears football (I mean cmon, it's the fucking Bears....snore) but has anyone ever done a full breakdown analysis of his returns?

How much is good ST coaching?
Good ST play?
Luck?

How many returns were his natural ability and how many were aided by overall team play?

What about for other great returners?

I'd be interested in reading an in depth analysis of these plays to see much is truly about him.

Longevity in returns is usually a sign of the player. Theres very little Xs and Os in special teams. Its really all about effort and talent.

You can get lucky twice a season even a game , you can have a stretch of a few games or a really good season where things are on all cylinders. But a return is basically a draw play or lead play.

As I said as someone who has Metcalf on his favorite players of all time list and is a huge fan of returners Hester is on some ridiculous level. I gave up watching after the Bears played musical chairs with him but prior to that he was as close to a guaranteed TD or midfield start as Ive ever seen.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

well again I am not endorsing Guy for the Hall, just merely stating that being the best player at your position isn't a good enough argument.

I mean Offensive Linemen don't score points, the do contribute to points more directly than say a Punter, I would say a Punter is more of a defensive player as its his job to try and give the opposition bad field position which makes it harder to score. So by that you have Defensive Linemen in the HOF who never scored points.

I get your point but for me.
Return man
..
Kicker
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.
.
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Punter
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.
.
.
. ST ace.

Thats my pecking order gaps intended. The higher you go the more influence that position can have.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Someone explain to me how this player, who is supposedly so much better than every other return man of all time, who also starts at WR, has never led the league in all purpose yards?

Look, i'm not doubting the guy is the most dangerous returner of all time, but he is not dominant enough to be a hall of famer, and brings nothing else to the table as a player to make up the difference. Guys with similar roles, like Dante Hall and Danny Amendola, match his return averages and outperform him in all purpose yards. Hester beats the field in TD's, but would need to BLOW AWAY the field in TD's to warrant a hall of fame nod. Nothing else he does is any better than any number of other similar players with similar roles.

 

[FirstTimer]

Someone explain to me how this player, who is supposedly so much better than every other return man of all time, who also starts at WR, has never led the league in all purpose yards?

Because he's a really shitty WR..at least IMO.

 

[Rush]

Someone explain to me how this player, who is supposedly so much better than every other return man of all time, who also starts at WR, has never led the league in all purpose yards?

Look, i'm not doubting the guy is the most dangerous returner of all time, but he is not dominant enough to be a hall of famer, and brings nothing else to the table as a player to make up the difference. Guys with similar roles, like Dante Hall and Danny Amendola, match his return averages and outperform him in all purpose yards. Hester beats the field in TD's, but would need to BLOW AWAY the field in TD's to warrant a hall of fame nod. Nothing else he does is any better than any number of other similar players with similar roles.

In the return game, I would expect being the leader in return TD's would be enough. That is, only if he does it AND adds more. If he isn't the leader, the "Well Mitchell/Metcalf" weren't considered, argument rings very true.

If he tacks several more on, it'll be very night and day whether or not he should be in.

As far as averages, I think TD's is more indicative as to how awesome a returner is.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

In the return game, I would expect being the leader in return TD's would be enough. That is, only if he does it AND adds more. If he isn't the leader, the "Well Mitchell/Metcalf" weren't considered, argument rings very true.

If he tacks several more on, it'll be very night and day whether or not he should be in.

As far as averages, I think TD's is more indicative as to how awesome a returner is.

If this is the case, we will never agree. I don't think being the all time return TD leader should be an automatic hall of fame barometer, and quite frankly, I find that idea ridiculous.

 

[Saluki]

He's also split return duties EVERY SEASON HE'S DONE THEM. He's split KR duties with Manning and more recently Knox, and PR duties with Manning, Knox, and for some reason Bennett. Those other guys were the sole KR

 

[FirstTimer]

He's also split return duties EVERY SEASON HE'S DONE THEM. He's split KR duties with Manning and more recently Knox, and PR duties with Manning, Knox, and for some reason Bennett. Those other guys were the sole KR

The Bears are fucking retarded.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

In the return game, I would expect being the leader in return TD's would be enough. That is, only if he does it AND adds more. If he isn't the leader, the "Well Mitchell/Metcalf" weren't considered, argument rings very true.

If he tacks several more on, it'll be very night and day whether or not he should be in.

As far as averages, I think TD's is more indicative as to how awesome a returner is.

The only reason I bring up stats like averages and all purpose yards, is because when I look at other players with similar roles as Hester, he isn't any better than these players who would never be considerd for the hall of fame. His only edge is TD's, and that edge isn't significant enough to warrant a HOF bid.

If he routinely led the league in all purpose yards, had amazing return averages, and was a competent WR, you could tack that on to his great TD totals and really make a case for Hester being an all time great, and being so good at a specialized position that he belongs in the hall of fame. But that isn't the case.

Basically, the TD totals is all he has, and they just aren't impressive enough.

 

[Rush]

I think everybody is in agreement if he tacks more on, then he's an easy bid. I think he will as well.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

He's also split return duties EVERY SEASON HE'S DONE THEM. He's split KR duties with Manning and more recently Knox, and PR duties with Manning, Knox, and for some reason Bennett. Those other guys were the sole KR

I was waiting for this, and it helps my argument significantly.

If Hester isn't even good enough to be the sole return man on his own team, how can you justify not only calling him the best return man of all time, and even more, putting him in the hall of fame?

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Someone explain to me how this player, who is supposedly so much better than every other return man of all time, who also starts at WR, has never led the league in all purpose yards?

Look, i'm not doubting the guy is the most dangerous returner of all time, but he is not dominant enough to be a hall of famer, and brings nothing else to the table as a player to make up the difference. Guys with similar roles, like Dante Hall and Danny Amendola, match his return averages and outperform him in all purpose yards. Hester beats the field in TD's, but would need to BLOW AWAY the field in TD's to warrant a hall of fame nod. Nothing else he does is any better than any number of other similar players with similar roles.

Quit being a pro football outsider.

Hall --426 kick returns 6 tds 216 punt returns 6 tds
Hester -- 127 kick returns 5 tds 184 punt returns 11 tds
Metcalf-- 280 kick returns 2 tds 350 punt returns 10 tds
Deion -- 155 kick returns 3 tds 157 punt returns 6tds
Brian Mitchell-- 607 kick returns 4 tds 463 punt returns 9tds

This isnt some return pansy like Brian Mitchell who every body kicked to every time 1000 x for every return and who'd only score in the 2nd quarter of some week one battle with the lowly bengals.
Hesters by far and away the most dangerous return man ever. The fact he accumulated those numbers in essentially 3 years of full time return and 2 years of P.T duty borders on disgusting. When not returning kicks he could be seen doing jumping jacks and walking off the field as the punter would directional kick and shank it to the sidelines every time giving his team better starting field position than anyone else in the league.
Thats impact no matter how you slice it. Whether its HOF impact ? I say when all is said and done if the bears arent idiots it will be yes.

 

[FirstTimer]

I was waiting for this, and it helps my argument significantly.

If Hester isn't even good enough to be the sole return man on his own team, how can you justify not only calling him the best return man of all time, and even more, putting him in the hall of fame?

See above about the Bears being retarded. He only started splitting returns when the Bears got the wild hair up their ass about making him a full/majority time WR.

It has nothing to do with Hester's ability or lack of...it has everything to do with Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith being brain dead.

 

[FirstTimer]

Quit being a pro football outsider.

Hall --426 kick returns 6 tds 216 punt returns 6 tds
Hester -- 127 kick returns 5 tds 184 punt returns 11 tds
Metcalf-- 280 kick returns 2 tds 350 punt returns 10 tds
Deion -- 155 kick returns 3 tds 157 punt returns 6tds
Brian Mitchell-- 607 kick returns 4 tds 463 punt returns 9tds

This isnt some return pansy like Brian Mitchell who every body kicked to every time 1000 x for every return and who'd only score in the 2nd quarter of some week one battle with the lowly bengals.
Hesters by far and away the most dangerous return man ever. The fact he accumulated those numbers in essentially 3 years of full time return and 2 years of P.T duty borders on disgusting. When not returning kicks he could be seen doing jumping jacks and walking off the field as the punter would directional kick and shank it to the sidelines every time giving his team better starting field position than anyone else in the league.
Thats impact no matter how you slice it. Whether its HOF impact ? I say when all is said and done if the bears arent idiots it will be yes.

:jonesy:

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

I was waiting for this, and it helps my argument significantly.

If Hester isn't even good enough to be the sole return man on his own team, how can you justify not only calling him the best return man of all time, and even more, putting him in the hall of fame?

The Bears stupidity helps the rest of the league but not your case.
I guess Barry being taken out at the goalline means he's not good enough to be there ?
Bears front office is full of mental midgets. Hesters career as amazing as it is has also been grossly mishandled.

 

[FirstTimer]

Bears front office is full of mental midgets. Hesters career as amazing as it is has also been grossly mishandled.

Troof.

 

[Rush]

I was waiting for this, and it helps my argument significantly.

If Hester isn't even good enough to be the sole return man on his own team, how can you justify not only calling him the best return man of all time, and even more, putting him in the hall of fame?

Bears front office is fucking retarded.

That isn't on Hester at all.