Brady sucks now

[ram29jackson]

So you're just waiting for him to screw up? He kept going farther into the playoffs and you're just waiting for him to lose so you can question if he's as good as he used to be and start this thread? He went to the Superbowl. It's not like he missed the playoffs and looked like a geezer. If he doesn't win one every year then you think he's not good anymore?

I'm not even a fan of Tom Brady or the Patriots but I'm not going to deny that he's one of the best QBs to ever play the game. I like how you listed the year he shattered all the regular season records as one that was a failure. When a man's failures are being judged by the amount of Superbowls he doesn't win then that's a pretty good place to be. You're setting the bar impossibly high. He's just one man on a team and he's one of the best to ever play at his position.

your stuff is for the most part true.

But I still said he/the Pats would lose the SB , and they did.

 

[Bear Pand]

So you're just waiting for him to screw up? He kept going farther into the playoffs and you're just waiting for him to lose so you can question if he's as good as he used to be and start this thread? He went to the Superbowl. It's not like he missed the playoffs and looked like a geezer. If he doesn't win one every year then you think he's not good anymore?

I'm not even a fan of Tom Brady or the Patriots but I'm not going to deny that he's one of the best QBs to ever play the game. I like how you listed the year he shattered all the regular season records as one that was a failure. When a man's failures are being judged by the amount of Superbowls he doesn't win then that's a pretty good place to be. You're setting the bar impossibly high. He's just one man on a team and he's one of the best to ever play at his position.

First of all it's amazing how people keep misrepresenting the argument making it look like I'm calling dude overrated or saying he's not good anymore. Even if it was unclear initially that I wasn't doing this, I've clarified it a few times in this thread. Sit down with that strawman bullshit.

Second of all no I wasn't just waiting for him to lose. I've been saying this shit since last year (not going to search for the post) and was talking about it in the chatbox after the Pats beat the Ravens.

Third of all LOL at you thinking I was bringing up him breaking the TD record as a failure. huh? Stopped reading there sorry.

 

[Tailback U]

Belichick and Brady have fooled people into believing they are some great powerhouse of a team.

The fact is that they overachieve year in and year out because of those two. That roster is not even top 10 in terms of talent from top to bottom and they seriously lack playmakers on both sides of the ball. Gronkowski is a stud, Hernandez is a good mismatch TE, and Welker is a great slot guy but that's it. Outside of those 3 they have nothing.

They have no running game. They have no playaction threat. They have no deep threat or anybody that can make a tough catch near the sideline or go up and get a ball besides Gronk.

They have nobody that can lockdown a WR. Chung will make a big hit every once in a while, but it's usually after the WR has already caught the ball. I don't even know who the hell was playing strong safety for them. They have a former QB from Kent State playing nickel back or a guy that was cut by 2 teams earlier this year.

Wilfork is a beast, but he's not going to get near double digit sacks. They have nobody that can consistently rush the passer.

The game is about making plays. You need playmakers, momentum shifters. The Patriots do not have enough. They are extremely well coached and execute as well as anyone in the league, but when they are outmatched in talent and meet their equal when it comes to coaching they get beat.

 

[leaffan]

Belichick and Brady have fooled people into believing they are some great powerhouse of a team.
The fact is that they overachieve year in and year out because of those two. That roster is not even top 10 in terms of talent from top to bottom and they seriously lack playmakers on both sides of the ball. Gronkowski is a stud, Hernandez is a good mismatch TE, and Welker is a great slot guy but that's it. Outside of those 3 they have nothing.

They have no running game. They have no playaction threat. They have no deep threat or anybody that can make a tough catch near the sideline or go up and get a ball besides Gronk.

They have nobody that can lockdown a WR. Chung will make a big hit every once in a while, but it's usually after the WR has already caught the ball.

Wilfork is a beast, but he's not going to get near double digit sacks. They have nobody that can consistently rush the passer.

The game is about making plays. You need playmakers, momentum shifters. The Patriots do not have enough. They are extremely well coached and execute as well as anyone in the league, but when they are outmatched in talent and meet their equal when it comes to coaching they get beat.

Read this line and just started shaking my head.

This forum is going down the shitter fast.

 

[Tailback U]

Read this line and just started shaking my head.

This forum is going down the shitter fast.

I'm talking about in terms of talent. Should have worded it differently. They are a powerhouse, but it's not because they have more talent than every team in the NFL, it's because of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady and that is it.

 

[Liquidrob]

Panda's point is very simple, Brady was 'mr clutch', it made him early on when he had 'the rings' and was 9-0 in the playoffs even before all the stats in the regular season, it hasnt been like that at all in years and we still here, Brady this in the playoffs, Brady at home, don't give Brady any time, cool as ice in big games, blah, blah, blah

Like I said in the Eli thread, Eli is a better 'big game' QB than Brady right now, the guy has shown up and Brady hasnt looked good in the playoffs in a long time, good thing he faced the ULTIMATE LEADER OF MEN in Tim Tebow in the first game, besides that he has been pretty average in the playoffs

 

[Tailback U]

Panda's point is very simple, Brady was 'mr clutch', it made him early on when he had 'the rings' and was 9-0 in the playoffs even before all the stats in the regular season, it hasnt been like that at all in years and we still here, Brady this in the playoffs, Brady at home, don't give Brady any time, cool as ice in big games, blah, blah, blah

Like I said in the Eli thread, Eli is a better 'big game' QB than Brady right now, the guy has shown up and Brady hasnt looked good in the playoffs in a long time, good thing he faced the ULTIMATE LEADER OF MEN in Tim Tebow in the first game, besides that he has been pretty average in the playoffs

Don't you think the defenses that the two face have something to do with this?

Year in and year out, Brady has to get through the Ravens, Steelers, Giants, etc.

It's the same reason Peyton Manning doesn't have more Super Bowls. They play for teams that are offensive minded and have no balance.

 

[OnlyOneBeerLeft]

Don't you think the defenses that the two face have something to do with this?

Year in and year out, Brady has to get through the Ravens, Steelers, Giants, etc.

It's the same reason Peyton Manning doesn't have more Super Bowls. They play for teams that are offensive minded and have no balance.

Talking like Eli didn't beat the 49ers.

Brady is overrated. I live in New England, see every snap of every game. He makes big throws as often as any other QB in the league. Outside that he relies on <10 yard routes, screens, TE's that get open and Welker who is almost uncoverable. The scheme is excellent, it masks the problems that he has. So many of the people in this thread only see the stats, the playoffs, and one or two regular season games. I have seen every single game he has played in. And a lot of the fans that I know around here have started to turn on Brady before this Super Bowl loss. He doesn't really deserve that, he's still a far above average Quarterback and during the regular season takes care of the ball. When asked to make a big throw downfield or big plays he isn't successful the majority of the time unless it's the games against garbage defenses.

 

[Bear Pand]

Sigh.

He's not overrated. He's an elite QB, one of the best of all time. And that's where people rate him. He's rated correctly.

This thread is about him being a choke artist in the postseason.

 

[Derrville]

Im not about to call a man with 3 rings not clutch. Even if his last win was 8 years ago. Hes taken a team with an average running game and a bad defense to 5 superbowls in 11 years.

 

[Bear Pand]

Im not about to call a man with 3 rings not clutch. Even if his last win was 8 years ago. Hes taken a team with an average running game and a bad defense to 5 superbowls in 11 years.

This right here sums up the mentality I'm talking about.

And I disagree that he's taken a bad defense to the SB 5 times. I'm not sure how those early 2000s Pats defenses stacked up statistically but they did work in the postseason. Gave up an average of 17 points in the postseason during the 3 SB runs. I watched them handle the greatest show on turf rams and the colts .

Lately yeah he's been carrying a soft D and run game. But who cares when he chokes it all away every year anyway.

 

[Liquidrob]

LOL @ the new Myth that the Pats had a bad defense all those years, oh man

 

[Deviant]

I 100% get what this thread is about. Brady isn't an immortal god that everyone else makes him out to be. He's just as human as every other quarterback in the NFL is made out to be. Everyone makes him out to be this god on the football field once he "gets that look" or if there's any time left on the clock.

Yes, Tom Brady was 10-0 in the postseason at one point. You know what he's been since then? 4-5. When Bradshaw accidentally scored the TD, I cheered wildly at the bar and everyone else groaned at the TVs. I knew I would much rather have Brady try and score the game-winning TD with 50+ seconds left than have him be in position to tie it with 20 seconds.

And all people said was: "You can't let Tom Brady have that much time." "How can you doubt a quarterback who has won three Super Bowls before?" "This is Tom Brady we're talking about."

I got annoyed and I wasn't afraid. I wasn't afraid of a dink and dunk , eat the clock quarterback having to drive from the 20 with 50 seconds left. I knew Tom Brady was going to be left with a desperation heave to win. And I said it then that the only two quarterbacks I would be afraid of in this situation are Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning (maybe Drew Brees in after thought). And everyone immediately said, "Yeah? Well, how many Super Bowl rings do they have in combined and how many does Tom have alone?"

I totally get what Killa Pand is saying. The mythical Tom Brady we created is exactly that... mythical. He's not more clutch then Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees. We just created a myth around him because of his accomplishments and streak eight years ago.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Ive been saying this for 7 years.

You need to learn the difference between being asked to win and asked not to lose.
There is a dramatic difference between being a caretaker , someone that hands the ball off , and asked to make a few key plays and being THE guy asked to carry the load on his arm. (figuratively)

As a caretaker Brady was as good as Aikman and Bradshaw. As the catalyst he is nowhere near as good and barely qualifies for elite. (07 is his saving grace).

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Belichick and Brady have fooled people into believing they are some great powerhouse of a team.

The fact is that they overachieve year in and year out because of those two. That roster is not even top 10 in terms of talent from top to bottom and they seriously lack playmakers on both sides of the ball. Gronkowski is a stud, Hernandez is a good mismatch TE, and Welker is a great slot guy but that's it. Outside of those 3 they have nothing.

They have no running game. They have no playaction threat. They have no deep threat or anybody that can make a tough catch near the sideline or go up and get a ball besides Gronk.

They have nobody that can lockdown a WR. Chung will make a big hit every once in a while, but it's usually after the WR has already caught the ball. I don't even know who the hell was playing strong safety for them. They have a former QB from Kent State playing nickel back or a guy that was cut by 2 teams earlier this year.

Wilfork is a beast, but he's not going to get near double digit sacks. They have nobody that can consistently rush the passer.

The game is about making plays. You need playmakers, momentum shifters. The Patriots do not have enough. They are extremely well coached and execute as well as anyone in the league, but when they are outmatched in talent and meet their equal when it comes to coaching they get beat.

What scares me about this assessment (an accurate one) is the sheer amount of high draft picks the Pats have enjoyed. Not since the early 90s Cowboys has a team gotten so many high draft picks to play with. Very little return on these picks considering the numbers.
Pats have gotten by with Bellyflop and the F.O exploiting the fact defense has been outlawed. Bellys a spiteful fuck and flipped the NFL the bird for quite sometime but this philosophy has worn out. Time for another change.

 

[ralaw]

There is a myth that people create about QB's to fulfill some sort of creation of a QBs that in order to be great they have to make plays in big moments. We praise them and use catch phrases such as "clutch," "winners" or "big game QB" when they perform in big moments and we when a play isn't made or a player drops a pass, or runs the wrong route, etc we criticise them. Brady is the same dude he was several years ago, but circumstances have changed, so the outcome is different....."the ball hasn't bounced his way". As I said, winning and losing is very situational and generally it doesn't always boil down to what the QB does or doesn't do. If Welker makes that catch or Manningham doesn't get his feet down the outcome is probably different, and Eli isn't clutch isn't ELIte and Brady becomes the GOAT. How is it that if Welker makes that catch or Manningham doesn't make that catch Brady's legacy goes from being better than Montana to now being relegated to Aikman? How did Eli go from being a top 10 QB in today's NFL to now being an all-time great?

Brady is still the same guy who has 3 SB rings and his legacy is cemented....regardless of what happens from here on out doesn't take away from his legacy of being a clutch performer, he has the drives and the wins. Its illogical to criticize Brady for losing 2 super bowls when he has 3 in his back pocket. Its at the point where we criticize guys for losing a SB that came down to the closing minutes and that is just dumb.

 

[Bear Pand]

There is a myth that people create about QB's to fulfill some sort of creation of a QBs that in order to be great they have to make plays in big moments. We praise them and use catch phrases such as "clutch," "winners" or "big game QB" when they perform in big moments and we when a play isn't made or a player drops a pass, or runs the wrong route, etc we criticise them. Brady is the same dude he was several years ago, but circumstances have changed, so the outcome is different....."the ball hasn't bounced his way". As I said, winning and losing is very situational and generally it doesn't always boil down to what the QB does or doesn't do. If Welker makes that catch or Manningham doesn't get his feet down the outcome is probably different, and Eli isn't clutch isn't ELIte and Brady becomes the GOAT. How is it that if Welker makes that catch or Manningham doesn't make that catch Brady's legacy goes from being better than Montana to now being relegated to just another QB? How did Eli go from being a top 10 QB in today's NFL to now being an all-time great?

I'm not arguing that it's logical or makes sense to view QBs that way. Because it doesn't make sense. People focus way too hard on QBs to the point that games are often looked at like one on one matchups between the two starters. That's just how QBs get treated for whatever reason. And since that's how we treat QBs, it's time to drop the clutch label for Brady. He no longer deserves it. He is a choker now. If he's going to get all the credit then he should also get all the blame.

 

[ralaw]

I'm not arguing that it's logical or makes sense to view QBs that way. Because it doesn't make sense. People focus way too hard on QBs to the point that games are often looked at like one on one matchups between the two starters. That's just how QBs get treated for whatever reason. And since that's how we treat QBs, it's time to drop the clutch label for Brady. He no longer deserves it. He is a choker now. If he's going to get all the credit then he should also get all the blame.

In a perfect world we should drop labeling QB's as "clutch" or "chokers" all the way around, because every QB in history including the great Montana has some blunders in big moments. Brady is no less "clutch" now than he was when he was winning SBs....what did his veins warm up or something? Maybe Brady was never clutch and just was fortunate enough to play on a great team that has circumstances and outcomes turn out in his favor? Maybe he still is clutch and just the circumstances and outcome didn't turn out in his favor? IDK. I do know that the Giants obviously have a better team and that is more than likely why they won.

Eh, in the end it doesn't matter and people will continue to label these guys, because that is just what people do. Just as Eli is being labeled “Mr. Clutch” now when the Giants lose some big games over the next few seasons he’ll lose that label……just as Brady has. This time last year and most of the regular season Aaron Rodgers was on the road into becoming the GOAT, but not so much now. I don’t understand how people can allow their thinking to be so transient, but some people are like that.

 

[OnlyOneBeerLeft]

Ive been saying this for 7 years.

You need to learn the difference between being asked to win and asked not to lose.
There is a dramatic difference between being a caretaker , someone that hands the ball off , and asked to make a few key plays and being THE guy asked to carry the load on his arm. (figuratively)

As a caretaker Brady was as good as Aikman and Bradshaw. As the catalyst he is nowhere near as good and barely qualifies for elite. (07 is his saving grace).

Prob the best post in this thread

 

[FirstTimer]

LOL at Brady being a choke artist.