Brady sucks now

[Liquidrob]

In a perfect world we should drop labeling QB's as "clutch" or "chokers" all the way around, because every QB in history including the great Montana has some blunders in big moments. Brady is no less "clutch" now than he was when he was winning SBs....what did his veins warm up or something? Maybe Brady was never clutch and just was fortunate enough to play on a great team that has circumstances and outcomes turn out in his favor? Maybe he still is clutch and just the circumstances and outcome didn't turn out in his favor? IDK. I do know that the Giants obviously have a better team and that is more than likely why they won.

Eh, in the end it doesn't matter and people will continue to label these guys, because that is just what people do. Just as Eli is being labeled “Mr. Clutch” now when the Giants lose some big games over the next few seasons he’ll lose that label……just as Brady has. This time last year and most of the regular season Aaron Rodgers was on the road into becoming the GOAT, but not so much now. I don’t understand how people can allow their thinking to be so transient, but some people are like that.

How is he 'the same guy' he was in the past? how is that possible just by even looking at the stats Pand posted, he TD/INT ratio is not what it was, the wins are not there, the bad Ints have happened, etc...

Some of guys, like you and Warner just say stuff like 'thats the way the ball bounces', or 'what is gronk caught a ball; which he wasnt even close too, etc...that is a cop out, so basically everyone is the same all the time? Brady plays the exact same way all the time? we just put it on bad bounces? guys don't elevate or just play bad anymore in certain spots?

He clearly isnt as good in the playoffs as in years past, nothing wrong with saying that, these things always turn into when you don't call someone 'the best' you are saying he sucks, clearly Pand isnt saying that, I'm not saying that either

Tom Brady is not "Mr Clutch" anymore, I think we should be able to agree with that, but probably not

also, it isnt a 1 game thing we are talking about here, we have a pretty good sample size over the last bunch of years

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

i didnt care for either team in the SB this year
but
if people are having this debate that Brady is a "Choke Artist" then i guess Jim Kelly is the biggest QB bust in SB history??

 

[ralaw]

How is he 'the same guy' he was in the past? how is that possible just by even looking at the stats Pand posted, he TD/INT ratio is not what it was, the wins are not there, the bad Ints have happened, etc...

How does he change? I take it some of you label these guys based on no meaning…you labels have no value…as in while many of you label Eli “clutch” this year if he losses in next years playoffs by a field goal or to a dropped pass or great play by the opposing team than he is no longer “clutch”. Titles, labels, etc should have more value and certainly should be more lasting.

Some of guys, like you and Warner just say stuff like 'thats the way the ball bounces', or 'what is gronk caught a ball; which he wasnt even close too, etc...that is a cop out, so basically everyone is the same all the time? Brady plays the exact same way all the time? we just put it on bad bounces? guys don't elevate or just play bad anymore in certain spots?

How is it a cop out? These types of plays happen in every single game. If Welker makes that catch or Manningham doesn’t get his feet down we’re having a different conversation right now. Welker makes that catch Brady is the GOAT, Manningham doesn’t get his feet down Brady is the GOAT……….Welker drops that catch, Manningham gets his feet down Brady is Troy Aikman? How can a guy’s legacy change over one or two plays? In 5 minutes of game action Brady turned from the GOAT to Troy Aikman?

He clearly isnt as good in the playoffs as in years past, nothing wrong with saying that, these things always turn into when you don't call someone 'the best' you are saying he sucks, clearly Pand isnt saying that, I'm not saying that either

I don’t know if he isn’t as good or not. I know his skills have probably eroded a bit, but his mental game is probably much greater. I do know that the Pats aren’t as good as those dynasty teams and I do know the Giants are simply a better team. However, I don't know what he has done to lose his status.

Tom Brady is not "Mr Clutch" anymore, I think we should be able to agree with that, but probably not

According to many of you titles come and go like the wind, so I’m not going to concern with it anymore. In my book Brady is one of the greatest and will continue to be. He has the stats, hardware and game moments. Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[Liquidrob]

Like I said, this isnt a 1 game thing, so if Eli losses by a field goal or 'dropped pass' that doesnt take away from a couple great post season runs, this isnt new for Brady, it isnt a one game thing, we have more data than 1 game

He played bad against the Ravens, he only played well for a quarter and a drive against the Giants, he got a bye week playing the TEBOWs, but before that he has flamed out multiple times in the playoffs like Pand posted

He is making more mistakes, he is throwing game killing picks in the playoffs, he has lost at home a bunch, these teams are still have really good regular season records and getting Home Field advantage, they went 13-3 this season, the Giants were 9-7, the years past they had advantages at home and lost

In the past the Pats were money at home, they went on a 10-0 run, since they got caught cheating they havent been near that level, Brady included in the playoffs

 

[ralaw]

Like I said, this isnt a 1 game thing, so if Eli losses by a field goal or 'dropped pass' that doesnt take away from a couple great post season runs, this isnt new for Brady, it isnt a one game thing, we have more data than 1 game

He played bad against the Ravens, he only played well for a quarter and a drive against the Giants, he got a bye week playing the TEBOWs, but before that he has flamed out multiple times in the playoffs like Pand posted

He is making more mistakes, he is throwing game killing picks in the playoffs, he has lost at home a bunch, these teams are still have really good regular season records and getting Home Field advantage, they went 13-3 this season, the Giants were 9-7, the years past they had advantages at home and lost

In the past the Pats were money at home, they went on a 10-0 run, since they got caught cheating they havent been near that level, Brady included in the playoffs

For the record Brady always plays bad against that Ravens. :smug:

 

[DSpydr84]

The same reason Brady was "the man" is the reason he no longer dominates... when you're in the playoffs, anything can happen. You're going up against better teams and more often than not both of them deserve to win when the game is over. That's the beauty of sports and competition.

There's a very real possibility that the Patriots could've beaten New York last Sunday, or that the Ravens could've beaten the Patriots, or that the Texans could've beaten the Ravens. Or that the Niners could've beaten the Giants, and the Saints could've beaten the Niners. We could go in circles all day; the point is - usually both teams deserve to win, but only one can have a higher score when the game is over. That doesn't take away from the other team, it's just the unfortunate end.

As a quarterback, Brady is a much better player now than he was in the past, despite his "lack of success" (if you can even call it that). He was clearly an elite player and still is.

 

[killgod]

Guy couldn't engineer his 3rd 90 yard TD drive of the fucking Super Bowl (with only a minute to go and the 1st two passes dropped) vs one of the few teams in the NFL still trying to play good defence, therefore he's not clutch.

Lets bash NE's defence and call them terrible all season long, deny anyone arguing otherwise, then call Eli Elite for beating them.

Welker drops a difficult but catchable pass, that could have changed the outcome. Leads the NFL in yards, catches over the past few seasons. "He sucks tho, they are all short routes. Anyone could do that...not that I have an explanation as to why nobody else actually does though"

NE doesn't win 100% of their home games in Brady's career, he's not clutch.

Brady only played good for a quarter and a half vs the Giants. NE time of possession 22 minutes and change...or...a quarter and a half.

Brady isn't as good as in year's past, he lost in a 4pt Super Bowl, terrible. He could have not made the playoffs or something.

Brady is a game manager, a caretaker....on a team that can't run the football or play defence.

The Patriots are fooling everyone into thinking they are good. 5 Superbowls in 10 years is entirely average for the NFL.

Brady has thrown interceptions in the playoffs, I have videos to prove it! Clutch QB's don't throw interceptions in the playoffs. So is nobody clutch?

Brady was about to be sacked and take a safety, so he tried to throw it away to avoid it but didn't get away with doing so. Terrible! He should have forced it into one of the covered targets and risked a pick six.



VSN NFL talk delivers.

 

[Fappin Raptor]

People just mad.

 

[MrBill]

Defense wins championships. Manning had one to cover his back and Brady did not.

 

[JOHNNYTHECLOWN]

I'm sure having a 1600 yard rusher in Clock Killin' Corey Dillon helped take the pressure off Brady and helped those stats along

 

[shag773]

Brady is in the discussion in GOAT. Anyone who thinks otherwise either has an axe to grind or just doesn't follow the game, plain and simple.

However, I don't think anyone is speaking out of turn when they criticize Brady for only scoring 17 points and 14 points in his last two SB outings.

Don't give me bad defense, that defense played well enough to win both those games. In the last one they are up 17-9, and they fail to score one point in their last 4 possesions of the game.

I understand there were dropped passes, but the last 4 possesions without scoring a point? He has the ball 1st and 10 on his own 43 at the start of the 4th Quarter. If he moves the ball 30 yards and gets them into field goal range, the Giants are pressing to score a TD. But he throws a Favrean wounded duck that was severely underthrown and was picked off by Chase Fucking Blackburn....

If you think Brady is the GOAT, great, I won't kill you for it. But don't tell me his last 2 SB games shouldn't make a difference in regards to his legacy, because it does..

 

[ralaw]

If you think Brady is the GOAT, great, I won't kill you for it. But don't tell me his last 2 SB games shouldn't make a difference in regards to his legacy, because it does..

Only because the Pats lost?

This is my issue. I can understand if Brady played a horrible game, but he didn't. In the two SB loses he is 56/89, 542 YDS, 3 TD 1int....those aren't the stats of a guy who has struggled. How does going to 2 SBs negatively affect a player's legacy? Maybe he would have been better to of not gone to the SBs at all, because then most of you wouldn't be overrating his loss as much.

This is my issue with most of you. Take even Kurt Warner. If Dyson scores that TD (stopped at the 1-yard line) Warner is 0-3 in SB's..if Holmes doesn't get his toes down he's 2-1....instead he's 1-2, but if everything worked in his favor he's 3-0. Does his legacy change, yes, because many of you would be claiming he's so "clutch" and a "big game winner" when his performance never even changes.

 

[Liquidrob]

Only because the Pats lost?

This is my issue. I can understand if Brady played a horrible game, but he didn't. In the two SB loses he is 56/89, 542 YDS, 3 TD 1int....those aren't the stats of a guy who has struggled. How does going to 2 SBs negatively affect a player's legacy? Maybe he would have been better to of not gone to the SBs at all, because then most of you wouldn't be overrating his loss as much.

This is my issue with most of you. Take even Kurt Warner. If Dyson scores that TD (stopped at the 1-yard line) Warner is 0-3 in SB's..if Holmes doesn't get his toes down he's 2-1....instead he's 1-2, but if everything worked in his favor he's 3-0. Does his legacy change, yes, because many of you would be claiming he's so "clutch" and a "big game winner" when his performance never even changes.

you're just looking at record, it is the performance, Warner is a better big game/playoff QB than Brady even being 1-2 in Super Bowls, Warner is an all time great in the playoffs

Brady has been average in his last playoff runs besides a couple games, failed to produce points with big time scoring teams

Besides Len, who here will say Brady played 'great' against the Giants?

 

[Liquidrob]

You're telling me Brady didnt struggle in the first loss to the Giants?

 

[ralaw]

you're just looking at record, it is the performance, Warner is a better big game/playoff QB than Brady even being 1-2 in Super Bowls, Warner is an all time great in the playoffs

Brady has been average in his last playoff runs besides a couple games, failed to produce points with big time scoring teams

Besides Len, who here will say Brady played 'great' against the Giants?

In closing my point is that your opinion of his performances is skewed because his team loss. If Tyree drops that ball, Welker makes that catch or Manningham doesn’t get his feet down the Pats win and his performances are the same. If he wins those games you're on the other side of the argument.

 

[Liquidrob]

I have a fun game, let's change what actaully happened!

Everyone is a winner!

 

[ralaw]

I have a fun game, let's change what actaully happened!

Everyone is a winner!

I'm not changing anything, but instead explaining to you and others that the performace is the performance regardless of the outcome, but other factors come into play that shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[FirstTimer]

You're telling me Brady didnt struggle in the first loss to the Giants?

Brady "struggling" against the Giants the first time had more to do with the Giants pass rush. Even with this "struggle" he lead a TD drive to take the lead with only minutes left.

As for Brady playing "great" two days ago. I won't go that far, but I won't say that he played badly. Both him and Eli played well. I'm not sold one really "out performed" the other. If Brady was playing so poorly and Eli so well/out playing him....the Patriots don't go up by 8 at any time and The Giants don't need a Welker drop to have a chance to win.

 

[shag773]

Only because the Pats lost?

This is my issue. I can understand if Brady played a horrible game, but he didn't. In the two SB loses he is 56/89, 542 YDS, 3 TD 1int....those aren't the stats of a guy who has struggled. How does going to 2 SBs negatively affect a player's legacy? Maybe he would have been better to of not gone to the SBs at all, because then most of you wouldn't be overrating his loss as much.

.

Who said he played a horrible game? The first game vs the Giants he was average. Last game he was above average. Brady set a pretty high bar for himself. For me, a player of Brady's calibur is expected to do better than 0 points in the last 4 possessions of a one score game. 4th quarter INTs are unacceptable when you are talking about a player like Brady.

Let's call it what it is. He was good in a game where he had to be great. If that doesn't change his legacy for you, than not sure what else I can say.

This is my issue with most of you. Take even Kurt Warner. If Dyson scores that TD (stopped at the 1-yard line) Warner is 0-3 in SB's..if Holmes doesn't get his toes down he's 2-1....instead he's 1-2, but if everything worked in his favor he's 3-0. Does his legacy change, yes, because many of you would be claiming he's so "clutch" and a "big game winner" when his performance never even changes.

Great, another "What if scenario". Sometimes NFL QB's are judged on things that are not within their control. Unfair, but its a by product of playing the most important position on the field. My point is, if Tom Brady played the game that matched the bar he set for himself, he'd have 5 SBs and would be the best QB of all time.

 

[FirstTimer]

.




Great, another "What if scenario". Sometimes NFL QB's are judged on things that are not within their control. Unfair

Ok thanks.

That's the point.

If we know this, let's be able to have an intelligent discussion on it rather than regurgitating what NFL Flilms and ESPN shoves down our throats. That's been Warner's point the entire time.