Cam Newton

[Fox1994]

I still want to know what's meant by "NFL coordinators will figure him out." I thought that only applied to quarterbacks that get most of their numbers scrambling out of the pocket and such. He's thrown from 400+ yards twice from the pocket, right?

Like I said earlier, I've only seen highlights and stat lines, so this isn't me baiting or being rhetorical or sarcastic...

Was he doing something out-of-the-ordinary to get his 400 yards (besides getting 400 yards)?

This sort of talk seemed to make a lot more sense for Vick after the Packers Lions games.

 

[bucky]

I still want to know what's meant by "NFL coordinators will figure him out." I thought that only applied to quarterbacks that get most of their numbers scrambling out of the pocket and such. He's thrown from 400+ yards twice from the pocket, right?

Defensive Coordinators, after getting enough game film figure EVERYBODY out. And that's when it becomes harder to have or keep the same kind of success and the player has to keep growing in the position to try and stay ahead of the opposing Coordinator's. That's just the nature of the game. It's not just tied to Newton. In Atlanta, Vick never grew as a QB and Defenses started to figure out how to play him. We have to wait and see what Fox and Newton do.

The same is/was true for Rodgers. GB was fortunate that Rodgers kept growing as a QB into who he is today. After hearing Newton's post game press conference (which I was very impressed with), I don't think he will settle like Vick did, I have a feeling Newton has more desire to improve. He sure sounded like it in his post game press conference. I was very impressed with his demeanor and what he was saying.

 

[bucky]

Are you serious?

Gus Malzahn, the OC and QB coach, is generally regarded as the most innovative coach in college football right now.

Well then you answered my question, it wasn't the the Coaches Style of offense to simplify it. And from everything I have read, the offense that was installed while Newton was QB was a very simple one read offense. So I'm guessing it was simplified because of Newtons limitations?

In Cam's year at Auburn they averaged over 40 points a game. Auburn led the SEC in scoring offense, total offense, rushing offense, first downs and first down conversions. Auburn also lead the conference in pass efficiency (174 of 261 passes, 6 interceptions, 66.7%, 29 touchdowns). They averaged almost 500 yards a game on offense (497.7).

Gus' no huddle offense is far from simple.

Simple doesn't mean unsuccessful in college. Giving stats doesn't make the offense Newton ran any more complicated.

Bucky has really been sippin on that Haterade lately.

Haterade footballwise or personally? Haterade footballwise, not true. I loved his demeanor and attitude in his post game press conference after the Packers game. Seems like he wants to do the right things to become an elite QB. How is that Hate? I just have some questions about his Wonderlic score, the things I've read about the one read offense that Auburn ran while he was there, and that he couldn't describe an Auburn play to Gruden when asked in an interview. A play he supposedly ran and should be intimately familiar with. Why is that so outrageous. I'm not saying he can't handle a complex offense. It's unfair to expect him to as a Rookie Pro. I just have questions.

As far as haterade personally. Why should I like a guy that gets caught stealing laptops from other college students?

 

[NAHSTE]

It was such a simpe offense no one could stop it. I like your logic.

Not to defend bucky because he's been on a failstreak lately, but the Auburn offense was fundamentally very simple. It has a lot of wrinkles but at it's core it's got some very basic concepts.

Last year Newton was essentially running an inverted veer option on every play. The passing tree was very simple as well, sometimes with only three route combos being used in an entire game.

Not that this bolsters bucky's point, because Cam still executed the offense VERY well and it relies on correct reads - which he obviously proved capable of making. I just wanted to address the notion that Malzahn's offense is really complex. It's really pretty basic and rooted in a lot of the original single wing offensive concepts.

 

[DoubleDeuce]

Why would you groan this post? Just take it in good nature. It's a joke.

Jokes are funny though.

 

[bucky]

It was such a simpe offense no one could stop it. I like your logic.

I didn't say ineffective. Simple doesn't mean ineffective.

Not to defend bucky because he's been on a failstreak lately, but the Auburn offense was fundamentally very simple.

Which is exactly what I've heard from legit sporting sources. I didn't follow Auburn, so my opinion is based on those legit sources.

Not that this bolsters bucky's point, because Cam still executed the offense VERY well and it relies on correct reads - which he obviously proved capable of making. I just wanted to address the notion that Malzahn's offense is really complex. It's really pretty basic and rooted in a lot of the original single wing offensive concepts.

Why doesn't this bolster my point. My point isn't that he can't do it. My point is I have questions because he hasn't run a complex offense, along with his crappy wonderlic, and not being able to describe one play in an interview with Gruden. I just have questions and am waiting to see how he does. I guess, I'm not sure why others are automatically considering him elite when I am just waiting.

I've also said many times in this thread that he really impressed me in his post game press conference. His demeanor and attitude in the press conference impressed me even more that the 2 400 yard games. How does that make me a hater?

 

[bucky]

I get what you're saying but I think you're over simplifying things a little. My point is that Bucky is off base by saying Cam is unintelligent.

Why are you implying that I say he's unintelligent? All I've said is that I have some reservations and wonder if he can handle a complex NFL offense. That's not saying he can't or is unintelligent, just that I have questions going on what I've read and his interview with Gruden. It's a wait and see.

hence Auburn having to run an incredibly simple offense. Yes they ran a lot of single wing concepts, but there are a lot of things that Auburn threw out there, that teams couldn't stop. Mainly because they tweaked the offense throughout the season as most teams do. If it were as incredibly simple as Bucky suggested, someone would've stopped it, the SEC is filled with defenses capable of shutting down an offense, but Auburn just rolled on.

It was a simple offense. Get over it. My only question was, was it simple because that is what the coaches ran, or because they had to make it simple. That's not calling Newton unintelligent. From what Nhaste says, it sound like it was the coaches style of offense. Which is the question I was asking.

Newton might not win a Noble prize in Science, but he's more than smart enough to play quarterback.

That's what we are waiting to see. There are some legitimate things out there that make you wonder about it. But I did love his attitude in his post game press conference after the Packer game. I think he gets it as far as trying to do what it takes to learn the position.

 

[bucky]

Who is calling him elite?

Who is calling him stupid?

 

[bucky]

Then you go on and on about his low wonderlic score.

Anyone with a grasp of the English language can tell that you're implying he's not very bright.

I'm not implying he's not very bright, I'm just noticing some red flags and wondering about them. That's all. Those are red flags.

 

[bucky]

:jonesy:

You can Jonesy all you want, but I never said Newton was stupid. Just noticed some legit red flags. That in no way is saying he's stupid.

EDIT: Ralaw, I saw your thanks above. So how is noticing some red flags calling some one stupid. Also, answer how not liking someone for stealing laptops in college from other college students is being racist? I'm still waiting on that one.

 

[Hasselbeck]

As one of his biggest haters, I have to say he has really impressed me. I'd be excited if I were a Panthers fan.

 

[ralaw]

I really don't get why bucky is so hung on his Wonderlic and Gruden's question. Gruden's question was ridiculous, because the Auburn offense didn't consist of these long drawn out calls. I just don't see the correlation between Auburn's offensive system and play calling sheet and Newton's lack of intelligence. Its just doesn't make any sense.

The only reason this is even being brought up is because bucky and other Newton haters are desirous of seeing Newton fail and have been even before the season started. Now due to his immediate success they're a bit pissed and looking for something else to grasp at.

In the grand scheme of things the "issues" of a Wonderlic and Gruden's question are irrelevant, so as long as Newton has the work ethic and determination to continue to improve himself as a QB. Its no surprise that Newton has a work ethic.........this can be seen from his journey to becoming a Heisman winner and his progression into becoming what seems to being a legitimate NFL QB.

 

[ralaw]

.

EDIT: Ralaw, I saw your thanks above. So how is noticing some red flags calling some one stupid. Also, answer how not liking someone for stealing laptops in college from other college students is being racist? I'm still waiting on that one.

What are you talking about? Where did I say you not liking him for stealing laptops makes something racist? Did you not read what I wrote? My comment about race had to do with you questioning his intelligence. The reason I said this is because traditionally this is something that has always been brought up with black QB's. We don't hear these sorts of questions with whites who score low on the Wonderlic. Besides, he scored a 21.......its not as if it was completely horrible.

You holding a grudge against him for stealing some laptops 3 years ago is your business. Now, I just don't understand why you or other people hold on to stuff like that, but to each his own. He obviously has atoned for his mistake. I really don't see why this is an issue to some anymore.

 

[Fox1994]

You can Jonesy all you want, but I never said Newton was stupid. Just noticed some legit red flags. That in no way is saying he's stupid.

EDIT: Ralaw, I saw your thanks above. So how is noticing some red flags calling some one stupid. Also, answer how not liking someone for stealing laptops in college from other college students is being racist? I'm still waiting on that one.

You're not racist for implying that he may not be intelligent enough to continue playing the quarterback position at a high level or for not liking him for stealing a laptop. But maybe there are racist implications to allegedly insulting the intelligence of a black quarterback. It just is what it is, man. We all know you're not racist, but sometimes it's a sensitive subject. (Really, Bucky, we know you're not racist. Don't address this anymore because it's not going to end.)

"Noticing red flags" is calling him stupid also by process of implication. I'm not saying you think he's stupid. You've said you don't and there's not much more you can do than that. It's just an implication.

In any case, I don't understand the Wonderlic test. Dan Marino got a sixteen and he's one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. Meanwhile VY gets the same score and nothing much has become of him yet.

Wikipedia cites this Sports Journal article that shows no correlation between Wonderlic score and passer rating.

As far as the complexity of the Auburn offense, 'simple concepts with complex foils' can be interpreted as a simple offense or a complex offense.

What I know of Cam Newton is this: he had one of - if not the - greatest single-season performances for a quarterback or any player in the history of NCAA football last year. I don't think Auburn's making the SEC championship, let alone the National Championship, without him.

He's also set rookie single-game passing yard records in consecutive games. While there's nothing impressive about three interceptions, there is something impressive about the fact that he only even had eighteen yards rushing in his first game, showing that if he's destined to be a 'run-first' quarterback, he doesn't know it yet. He had forty more yards in his second game, sure, but it's not like he didn't throw for another 400 yards.

What I'm most worried about is the Panther's game-planning. They had one of the best one-two punch runningback committes in football in 2008 and 2009 (and Mike Goodson did a good job with DeAngelo hurt last season), but this season have twice consecutively put the game almost entirely on the back of a rookie quarterback that many people were projecting behind Blaine Gabbert.

They need to run the ball, and then maybe instead of averaging 41.5 passing attempts per game, Cam can focus on locking down his mistakes so that he can win some games for this team.

 

[bucky]

I really don't get why bucky is so hung on his Wonderlic and Gruden's question. Gruden's question was ridiculous, because the Auburn offense didn't consist of these long drawn out calls. I just don't see the correlation between Auburn's offensive system and play calling sheet and Newton's lack of intelligence. Its just doesn't make any sense.

It makes sense that they are indicators. They may or may not be accurate. Did Gruden give Newton an Auburn play? or did he give Newton a play from Gruden's play book? If it was the latter, you would have a point. But why would Gruden give Newton a play from his playbook and not Auburns play book. And shouldn't Newton know the plays he was running in college? Vince Young had a crappy Wonderlic score and he hasn't lived up to his draft status. You can poo poo the red flags all you want. I'm just noticing them and wondering Newton is another Vince Young or will he be a Steve Young. Only time will tell. I don't see how that is calling Newton stupid. Or saying he can't do it.

The only reason this is even being brought up is because bucky and other Newton haters are desirous of seeing Newton fail and have been even before the season started. Now due to his immediate success they're a bit pissed and looking for something else to grasp at.

You're way off base here. I don't like the guy because he seemed like a real dirt bag stealing other peoples laptops. That has nothing to do with his wonderlic score, the simple offense at Auburn, or his interview with Jon Gruden. Absolutely nothing.

In the grand scheme of things the "issues" of a Wonderlic and Gruden's question are irrelevant,

To you maybe. And they may end up being irrelevant. But they are not irrelevant in the evaluation process, or as a fan wondering how good Newton will end up being. Because that's all I'm doing is wondering, I'm not predicting that he will fail or that he is not bright enough. Just noticing some red flags. That's all.

so as long as Newton has the work ethic and determination to continue to improve himself as a QB. Its no surprise that Newton has a work ethic.........this can be seen from his journey to becoming a Heisman winner and his progression into becoming what seems to being a legitimate NFL QB.

I was very impressed with him after his post game press conference. I have no reason to wonder about his work ethic or determination. From his demeanor and attitude in the post game press conference that I watched, he seems to get it.

You still haven't answered my post about racism. Why did you even bring up race? What does anything I have said have to do with race?

 

[NAHSTE]

If it were as incredibly simple as Bucky suggested, someone would've stopped it, the SEC is filled with defenses capable of shutting down an offense, but Auburn just rolled on..

Not necessarrily. Being simple to execute doesn't mean it's simple for the defense to stop. Having 4 or 5 plays that you execute very well > complexity for the sake of being complex.

This is just talking in general football terms at this point, I have no dog in this race. I hate Cam Newton for multiple reasons, but I have never been one to question his on-field abilities because they speak pretty clearly for themselves.

 

[BigBucs]

Lol.

 

[bucky]

My comment about race had to do with you questioning his intelligence. The reason I said this is because traditionally this is something that has always been brought up with black QB's. We don't hear these sorts of questions with whites who score low on the Wonderlic. Besides, he scored a 21.......its not as if it was completely horrible.

21 isn't bad. I think he scored in the single digits and retook it several times with his agent giving him sample wonderlic tests to take. It's the first score that seemed like a red flag. But that's all it is. And how is noticing his bad Woderlic score and the simple offense at Auburn have to do with race? Where in the world did I bring up race? And why did you? What on earth does any of this particular situation have to do with race?

You holding a grudge against him for stealing some laptops 3 years ago is your business. Now, I just don't understand why you or other people hold on to stuff like that, but to each his own. He obviously has atoned for his mistake. I really don't see why this is an issue to some anymore.

Not an issue? It says something about his character. He wasn't 11 when this happened. He was in college. It's unfair to dislike the guy because of this? Really?

 

[ram29jackson]

He may be showing talent, but he isnt showing anything that proves he will get better or be a winner. he has 3 TDs passing and 4 ints. If that rate continues, thats called sucking. For all his passing yards, there hasnt been any success in the redzone , or rather ,enough success to contribute to a win. If they have to rely on him rushing for TDs from inside the 5, he wont last long and the team wont win. He's been a great jock between the 20 yrd lines but the team is still o-2 and he still has 4 ints. Anyone can get lots of yards passing now, doesnt mean much yet in his case. its too early to know anything really, but 4 ints in 2 losses means you suck for all intents and purposes.

 

[bucky]

You're not racist for implying that he may not be intelligent enough to continue playing the quarterback position at a high level or for not liking him for stealing a laptop. But maybe there are racist implications to allegedly insulting the intelligence of a black quarterback.

How am I insulting his intelligence. I'm calling him stupid. I'm not saying I expect him to be stupid. I noticed his first wonderlic score being ultra low, noticed he came from a simple college offense and noticed he had trouble with describing a play from the Auburn playbook. And all I've said is it makes me wonder how well he will handle a complex NFL offense. I think that is MORE than a fair statement. In no way is that insulting his intelligence.

It just is what it is, man. We all know you're not racist, but sometimes it's a sensitive subject.

Then I say, get the fuck over it so that a rational discussion can take place. One without race coming up in the topic. I didn't bring it up.

"Noticing red flags" is calling him stupid also by process of implication. I'm not saying you think he's stupid. You've said you don't and there's not much more you can do than that. It's just an implication.

I strongly disagree.

In any case, I don't understand the Wonderlic test. Dan Marino got a sixteen and he's one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. Meanwhile VY gets the same score and nothing much has become of him yet.

It's not a be all end all, but it is an indicator. It's just a tool that contains a statistical error and anomalies. It doesn't say someone is stupid or smart. It's just an indicator. I don't put all my stock in Wonderlic scores. I use other things along with the wondoerlic to come up with opinions and questions about a college recruit.

What I know of Cam Newton is this: he had one of - if not the - greatest single-season performances for a quarterback or any player in the history of NCAA football last year. I don't think Auburn's making the SEC championship, let alone the National Championship, without him.

Tim Tebow won a championship to and I have questions about his ability to play QB in the NFL. The same questions I had about him when he came out of college. Poor throwing mechanics. I don't question his work ethic either. But I don't have much faith him as an NFL QB.

He's also set rookie single-game passing yard records in consecutive games. While there's nothing impressive about three interceptions, there is something impressive about the fact that he only even had eighteen yards rushing in his first game, showing that if he's destined to be a 'run-first' quarterback, he doesn't know it yet. He had forty more yards in his second game, sure, but it's not like he didn't throw for another 400 yards.

I was very impressed with his NFL start. I was even more impressed with his post game press conference after the game.

What I'm most worried about is the Panther's game-planning. They had one of the best one-two punch runningback committes in football in 2008 and 2009 (and Mike Goodson did a good job with DeAngelo hurt last season), but this season have twice consecutively put the game almost entirely on the back of a rookie quarterback that many people were projecting behind Blaine Gabbert.

They had a lot of trouble running against GB and a lot of success passing. So I'm not surprised. But I agree, a healthy running game will help them and Newton a great deal. They need time to give Newton a chance to learn more of the offense. Even Rodgers started out in the league only reading half of the field. Something I also noticed was the passing game seemed very simple. Newton seemed to go to one maybe two read, which isn't unexpected from a rookie. Just saying it seemed like a very simple pass offense that GB had trouble with.

They need to run the ball, and then maybe instead of averaging 41.5 passing attempts per game, Cam can focus on locking down his mistakes so that he can win some games for this team.

I agree. Not just locking down his mistakes, but also give him time to learn more of the Panthers playbook.