Dynamite!! 2010 ~The Power Of Courage~ (12/31 on HDNet)

[Liquidrob]

Rob, no one is claiming that Overeem is ducking competition. That is entirely not the point that's being made here. It is simply that Overeem has no beaten anyone of real substance in an MMA fight in a long time. I love watching the guy and its awesome that he just won K1. But if I felt Fedor deserved some degree of criticism for the level of competition he faced over a period of time, I would feel like a huge hypocrite for not applying the same rule to Overeem. The reasons don't even come into it.

W2B is right - you murder other fighters for facing easy fights, whether its by choice or not.

Like I said, I talk fighting, if Fedor wants to go to K-1, thats great

If Brock wants to go box, great, I'll give him credit to

The point is, they don't, Overeem is competing in 2 combat sports, winning the title of won and having a title for Strikeforce, the guy has fought 14, 15 after Dynamite in 2 years

 

[Liquidrob]

Top 5? Supposedly, he's the #1 heavyweight in the world.

rankings are rankings, doesnt mean you're the best or the baddest man on the planet

I think Overeem is the best HW 'fighter' in the world, never said he was ranked number 1

 

[EmpireWF]

Well then, I guess rob is in his own world...

Everyone else talks MMA...he's about fighting

 

[Liquidrob]

Well then, I guess rob is in his own world...

Everyone else talks MMA...he's about fighting

yeah, because on this 'MMA' Dynamite!! show we have Mousasi fighting a K-1 bout and Aoki in a 'special rules' match, fighting is fighting

 

[Bigpapa42]

So do you give MMA fighters credit for grappling or BJJ tournaments they partake in? That's fighting, is it not? If that's the case, why does Fedor not get credit for his Sambo tournaments?

 

[Liquidrob]

So do you give MMA fighters credit for grappling or BJJ tournaments they partake in? That's fighting, is it not? If that's the case, why does Fedor not get credit for his Sambo tournaments?

uh, of course I do

Do you think Roger Gracie has better grappling than Chris Leben? Why do you think that?

Is James Toney a better striker than Gray Maynard?

Also, where am I 'ripping' Fedor here? I still have him ranked higher in MMA than Overeem so I dont understand your point

 

[EmpireWF]

yeah, because on this 'MMA' Dynamite!! show we have Mousasi fighting a K-1 bout and Aoki in a 'special rules' match, fighting is fighting

It's a dual show...they are not equal. Mousasi's showing in a kickboxing match has absolutely zero impact on him as an MMA fighter.

 

[Liquidrob]

Also, not to stray even more, grappling and BJJ tournamnets dont really count as 'fighting', its still competing but fighting general has striking in it, its an old arguement though, but it still gets credit for your skill level

 

[Liquidrob]

It's a dual show...they are not equal. Mousasi's showing in a kickboxing match has absolutely zero impact on him as an MMA fighter.

I'm talking fighting here goof ball if you havent figured it out yet, this is the Dynamite!! thread isnt it?

 

[Bigpapa42]

uh, of course I do

Do you think Roger Gracie has better grappling than Chris Leben? Why do you think that?

Is James Toney a better striker than Gray Maynard?

Also, where am I 'ripping' Fedor here? I still have him ranked higher in MMA than Overeem so I dont understand your point

My point is that you seem to be giving Overeem equal credit for MMA and other fighting. And while success in other combat sports is obviously considered, its not really used as an equal measuring stick when comparing MMA fighters. At least that's how everyone else does it. Not really sure where "just talking fighters" came from, because it honestly seems a bit odd.

The opponents Overeem has fought in the past 2-3 years in MMA have not been impressive. No matter the reason or his other commitments or anything else. It is that simple.

 

[SHOGUN]

So do you give MMA fighters credit for grappling or BJJ tournaments they partake in? That's fighting, is it not? If that's the case, why does Fedor not get credit for his Sambo tournaments?

I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying and I would say no if talking about strictly rankings, but when you're simply arguing who's better I think their is a small percentage of input. The disconnect comes in when you're building hype or an argument based solely on non-MMA accomplishment, which seems to be the case with the Overeem hype in general for the most part.

 

[EmpireWF]

Rob found his hook once Fedor lost, to push Strikeforce. He hopped on the 'fighting' wagon and stuck his head up Overeem's ass.

With that said, Dynamite should be a fun show! Kawajiri/Thomson FTW!

 

[Liquidrob]

Rob found his hook once Fedor lost, to push Strikeforce. He hopped on the 'fighting' wagon and stuck his head up Overeem's ass.

With that said, Dynamite should be a fun show! Kawajiri/Thomson FTW!

yeah, because I wasnt saying Overeem would beat Fedor before he lost to Werdum, empire, go to bed and sleep for a day and get a fresh start for christmas

 

[EmpireWF]

yeah, because I wasnt saying Overeem would beat Fedor before he lost to Werdum

Will we ever see Overeem fight Fedor? Or will his kickboxing take precedent?

 

[Liquidrob]

Will we ever see Overeem fight Fedor? Or will his kickboxing take precedent?

M1 has turned it down twice now, not up to overeem

Actually probably more, overeem has been chasing that fight since dream

 

[SHOGUN]

Will we ever see Overeem fight Fedor? Or will his kickboxing take precedent?

Tell M-1 to stop coming up with excuses for Fedor.

:smug:

 

[EmpireWF]

Tell M-1 to stop coming up with excuses for Fedor.

:smug:

He'll be back in 2011, question is, will Alistair? Or will he return in 2013, taking 3 years in between title defenses?

 

[Liquidrob]

He'll be back in 2011, question is, will Alistair? Or will he return in 2013, taking 3 years in between title defenses?

Wow, back in 2011, after his rough 69 seconds of fighting in 2010!

 

[SHOGUN]

He'll be back in 2011, question is, will Alistair? Or will he return in 2013, taking 3 years in between title defenses?

Again, I can't really shit on Alistair for having available try and find excuses to not fight him. He can only fight who they put in front of him and he hasn't been someone to shy away from a fight. The problem is that none of the top two contenders wants to fight him. Werdum somehow sees it as a step back to fight for a goddamn title and would rather fight Fedor again. M-1 has been asking for Olympic-style drug testing as a stipulation before they even consider a fight with Overeem.

Coker would have to bring in a new face like Kharitanov or if Barnett gets his US shit straightened out, and someone needs to get the sand of Werdum's vag and make the fight. Otherwise, we probably won't see Overeem vs. Fedor/Werdum until late 2012 at the rate Strikeforce sets up fights.

 

[EmpireWF]

Wow, back in 2011, after his rough 69 seconds of fighting in 2010!

Obviously Fedor had a down year, but contract negotiations are a bitch.

No reason for Overeem to not fight 2-3 times in 2011 for SF. Whether it's against Big Foot, Fedor w/ his new contract, a healthy Werdum or a newly licensed, equally steroid free Josh Barnett.