Eli Manning...

[Houston]

How did we get from "is he even an elite player in today's game?" to "he is definitely an all-timer, brb let me start sculpting his bust for Canton" in a few months?

In head to head matchups he outplayed two "elite QBs"....Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs, and Tom Brady twice this season while on his way to another superbowl victory.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'm going to say this out of love, because we love one another.

You're a fucking idiot and could possibly be illiterate, you Dexter Manley reading level son of a bitch.

No one said its JUST ABOUT DA RINGZ...it has simply been said that DA RINGZ, for a quarterback are the biggest and most important criteria for judging a quarterback among his peers and across generations/eras...if you don't think its not the biggest and most important bullet point, you have no concept of history or of the story the game tells or what greatness truly comprises...you're simply a fruit pop stat nerd that attempts to quantify greatness numerically because you have no idea what the fuck you are watching in the first place.

His numbers will be at an All-Time level once his career finishes it out...he'll have at least two Super Bowl rings...he'll be considered of the best at his position over his career and will several times be considered of the best at his position on a yearly basis. He'll probably be a 4+ time Pro Bowler. He and Ben Roethlisberger will basically have the same resume to enter Canton.

But then again, who are you to doubt Eli Dandy?

Why do you keep talking about his numbers? His numbers are not Hall of Fame caliber. He rarely finishes Top 5 in anything (aside from INT's) on a year to year basis. I'm supposed to care about compiled stats after he plays for 15 years? He has never put up elite numbers. Even this year, his best season by far, he didn't finish Top 3 in anything! Just stop.

So if it's not "just about rings" (why do you keep putting a 'Z' on the end? weirdo), what else does he have?? His numbers are not special, he has no MVP's, nothing.

You admit yourself, "RINGZ" are the 'number one bullet point'. I disagree with that on the surface, there is always context to consider, and you sir, have none. I prefer to think a bit deeper.

 

[jms493]

Point being - we can jump rope with this topic all day and get nowhere, when the fact of the matter is this game came down to a lot more than just good quarterback play.

To throw Eli in the Hall of Fame after last night is a bit premature considering he played his role to win the game and nothing more, as did a lot of other Giants (as they did in 2007 as well, yet none of them are being looked at as HOF worthy today).

I'm just tired of the quarterback being put on the pedostal all the time. Manning had a good night, good for him. So did a lot of other two-time SB champion Giants.

QBs touch the ball the most and make the most decisions with the ball in their hand almost every game.....thats why take the most of the glory or the shame.

 

[FirstTimer]

Brady didn't hit him in the hands... Welker made a fantastic adjustment to get his hands on the ball. There is a difference.

Welker made the play he was supposed to off the pass Brady was suppoed to throw in that situation.

Brady hit Welker in the hands.

The throw was fine.

I've explained why countless times as this point and even posted the video illustrating it. Mr Bill tried to post some shitty photo which even helps my point more because it shows the safety reading Brady for the throw down the seem and the underneath outside CB not even fully turned when Welker gets past the second level of the coverage..."If he's even he's leaving" which makes the outside throw Brady made the correct read and throw given the coverage over the top and underneath.

 

[MrBill]

Hall of Fame players dominate their position, lead the league in things aside from interceptions, win MVP's, and don't need to win Super Bowls to cement legacies.

Terry Bradshaw disagrees.

 

[NAHSTE]

Also, a huge LOL to all posts that say "assuming Eli averages 30 TDs and 4000 yards for the next five seasons, he'll be top 10 in all these categories!"

It's a bit of a leap to assume Eli will reach both sets of criteria in every season for the next five years, given that he's done both in the same year precisely once in his career (2010).

Three total 4000 yard passing seasons out of 9 tries, and one 30 TD season (29 this season). Yep, let's pencil in him to match his career highs every season for the next five, since that's totally how athletes progress. As soon as they reach their peak, they stay there for the foreseeable future.

 

[DJ Rhude]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IZ5gLsp7tM"]*NEW*Giants vs Patriots Super Bowl Highlights 2012 espn NEW - YouTube[/ame]

start @ 7:02....Welker is about 5 yards behind Rolle, and with plenty of distance away from Phillips that if Brady properly leads him, we are in deep trouble.....that one is on Brady, pretty clear cut

 

[FirstTimer]

Why do you keep talking about his numbers? His numbers are not Hall of Fame caliber. He rarely finishes Top 5 in anything (aside from INT's) on a year to year basis. I'm supposed to care about compiled stats after he plays for 15 years? He has never put up elite numbers. Even this year, his best season by far, he didn't finish Top 3 in anything! Just stop.

So if it's not "just about rings" (why do you keep putting a 'Z' on the end? weirdo), what else does he have?? His numbers are not special, he has no MVP's, nothing.

You admit yourself, "RINGZ" are the 'number one bullet point'. I disagree with that on the surface, there is always context to consider, and you sir, have none. I prefer to think a bit deeper.

He has the same amount of Pro Bowls as Mike Vick?

 

[FirstTimer]

that one is one Brady, pretty clear cut

Umm actually it isn't.

Your "breakdown" of the video is awful and flat out incorrect.

 

[DSpydr84]

QBs touch the ball the most and make the most decisions with the ball in their hand almost every game.....thats why take the most of the glory or the shame.

I get that, but I think it's way more than they deserve, good or bad. A quarterback can't be effective if the line doesn't provide protection, or the receivers aren't getting open down the field.

Eli had a solid night. Solid. Did what he had to do. I don't understand how that puts him in the Hall of Fame.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I agree it was the best season of Eli's career, and he still didn't sniff an MVP or come close to being the best QB in the league (let alone the best player in the league), nor did he lead the league in any statistical category.

Hall of Fame players dominate their position, lead the league in things aside from interceptions, win MVP's, and don't need to win Super Bowls to cement legacies.

Eli has never dominated his position, led the league in anything, or won an MVP. He's had one year where you can make a realistic argument he is among the Top 5 QB's in the league, let alone the best. Take away two SB wins, and this thread doesn't exist, WHICH IS THE POINT I'VE BEEN MAKING ALL ALONG.

Jim Kelly?
Troy Aikman?

 

[shag773]

I'm just tired of the quarterback being put on the pedostal all the time. Manning had a good night, good for him. So did a lot of other two-time SB champion Giants.

Quarterbacks get too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses, been like that since Moses wore short pants...:dealwithit:

Just a question..is there a certain number of SBs you have to win in order for those wins to be highly weighed in their resume, or does it not matter or should be more lightly weighted regardless?

What should I be looking at?

 

[Liquidrob]

Right now, Eli isnt a HOF QB, I am not a 'ringz' guy either, but with the way they let guys in, he will get in when it's all over when he gets his all time stats up

My point is, Eli is money in the 4th quater and in big games, better than Brady at this point, playoffs, on the road, super bowls, whatever, Eli just has 'it' when it matters, post Spygate Brady hasnt been what he was in the playoffs

 

[DJ Rhude]

I honestly don't care if people don't think if Eli's elite....just like no one thought Simms was elite

Bottom line is, they work fine for the Giants and what they do...it got Simms two rings, Eli now has two

And some might cringe at this thought, but Eli could possibly end up with four rings before he's done...oh the horror at the thought of him passing Brady huh

 

[DJ Rhude]

Umm actually it isn't.

Your "breakdown" of the video is awful and flat out incorrect.

Lets hear your expert breakdown then

 

[Liquidrob]

LOL @ FT scared to groan Rosetta

Don't be scared homie

 

[jms493]

Eli had a solid night. Solid. Did what he had to do. I don't understand how that puts him in the Hall of Fame.

it doesn't.....it just gives people some thing to argue about.

 

[FirstTimer]

Jim Kelly?
Troy Aikman?

Jim kelly. No SB win last I checked. Made more Pro Bowls was a First team All Pro. Lead one of the best offenses in football for nearly a decade and was constantly viewed as a TOp QB. Eli Manning is not nearly as well respected as Kelly was/is at this point relative to era.


Aikman lead the NFL in completion percentage once and made 3 times as many Pro Bowls as Manning has made so far. :smug:

 

[SethMode]

And some might cringe at this thought, but Eli could possible end up with four rings before he's done...oh the horror at the thought of him passing Brady huh

And? There are a lot of guys that could end up with 4 rings. I hate Tom Brady too, but this is just silly.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

-82.2 QB rating (41st best all time, 21st best among active QB's)

-No MVP's

-ZERO time All Pro

-Two time Pro Bowler, in an era where making the Pro Bowl has never been easier

-ZERO time league leader in any major statistical category, aside from INT's

-ZERO time Top 3 finish in any major statistical category, aside from INT's

-ONE Top 10 finish, EVER, in QB rating or completion percentage. TOP TEN! ONCE!


C'mon, tell me more how this doesn't come down to Super Bowl wins. Tell me more about how that list of credentials is Hall of Fame worthy.

Please people, do us all a favor and admit this has everything to do with rings, and nothing to do with anything else. It's not "the top bullet point" to you guys, it's the only bullet point. Lame.