If the Patriots win Super Bowl 46, is Tom Brady the G.O.A.T?

[ram29jackson]

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Brady was in the Aikman , Young , Bradshaw , Staubach tier like it or not.

what are you talking about? Bradshaw is way better than Staubach...twice even...LOL

 

[NAHSTE]

let's say Vinatieri misses FG's against St. Louis and Carolina - the game is headed to OT. Who the hell knows what happens then?

The Pats still win by a field goal thanks to Brady marching them juuuust past the 40-yard-line, and we all continue to pretend he's better than Manning.

Marvin Harrison in his prime. Reggie Wayne in his prime.

Wow you listed two whole guys. What weaponry! Let's not mention the nonexistent running game, the bargain bin offensive line or the porous defense the Colts were saddled with for a majority of Manning's career.

 

[G-men]

what are you talking about? Bradshaw is way better than Staubach...twice even...LOL

Holy shit you are so fucking dumb.

 

[ram29jackson]

Holy shit you are so fucking dumb.

Stats do not tell a complete story. Havent you learned that yet?

head to head he is 2-0 against him,whats the problem ? LOL

 

[JBregz]

Stats do not tell a complete story. Havent you learned that yet?

head to head he is 2-0 against him,whats the problem ? LOL

Bradshaw had a way better Steelers team. That's the problem.

 

[shag773]

You can't be serious...

Let's not mention the nonexistent running game

,

Edge had 7 1,000 yard seasons and Addai and 2 while he was there

the bargain bin offensive line

That offensive line was actually good up until 2-3 years ago. Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, and Ryan Diem actually played together for awhile.

or the porous defense the Colts were saddled with for a majority of Manning's career.

He had a top 10 defense 5 times in his career, last time in 2009

I love Manning as much as the next guy, but lets not pretend he was asked to make chicken salad out of chicken shit...

 

[NAHSTE]

Edge had 7 1,000 yard seasons and Addai and 2 while he was there

I said "the majority of his career" but I probably should have gone with "half of his career" ... Edge left 7 years ago, and Addai has been injured and ineffective for much of his time there.

That offensive line was actually good up until 2-3 years ago. Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, and Ryan Diem actually played together for awhile.

Colts fans may disagree. Either way the Colts were not investing a ton of money or many draft picks on the OL. They didn't really have to, of course, because of Manning's superb pocket control.

I love Manning as much as the next guy, but lets not pretend he was asked to make chicken salad out of chicken shit...

Well, when he stopped making the chicken salad it immediately became chicken shit. So what other conclusion can we draw?

 

[FirstTimer]

Randy Moss is known for quitting on teams when things go wrong. Go look at the end of his 2009 season, and you'll notice an incredible dip in his yards per game towards the end of the 2009 season, and then as you know he was shipped out instantly in the 2010 season.

Oh ok. So Moss quit..and Brady was left with garbage......which I thought he won with anyways before...so what's the excuse?

You're not winning this. You can't claim Brady's greatness is defined by his ability to win with shit..then excuse losses because of the shit.

Wow you listed two whole guys. What weaponry! Let's not mention the nonexistent running game, the bargain bin offensive line or the porous defense the Colts were saddled with for a majority of Manning's career.

I love the "Harrison in his prime" comment. What was Harrison before Manning arrived and played well? A short WR averaging 800 yards and 7 TD's a year. Wow. Impressed.

Let's not be foolish. No one was confusing Marvin Harrison as being the reason Manning was good. I'm pretty sure Manning continuing to rape and pillage the NFL after Harrison was gone with dopes like Garcon and Collie is a pretty good indicator of who benefited from playing with whom in their prime.

 

[SethMode]

This is an old concept but, isn't it possible that Peyton Manning has at times made his receivers look better? Remember, this is the guy that had BRANDON STOKLEY highly sought after after just a year in Indy...

 

[FirstTimer]

This is an old concept but, isn't it possible that Peyton Manning has at times made his receivers look better? Remember, this is the guy that had BRANDON STOKLEY highly sought after after just a year in Indy...

Hey, who here remembers Jacob Tamme?

Yeah, neither do I.

 

[FirstTimer]

Also, to cover Edge James and Reggie Wayne. Reggie Wayne was drafted by the Colts...when they already had Manning, thus it's impossible to determine if Wayne was more a benefactor of or for Manning. I know which way I lean but saying Manning had "Wayne in his prime" is odd as Wayne also had Manning in his prime. Manning is seen as one of the greatest QB's ever..Wayne wasn't even seen as a true #1 until a few years ago. Who benefited from playing with whom more?

What'd James do once he left Indy and Manning's offense? His production dropped sharply and he was out of the league after 2009. Starting in 2006(the first year Edge was gone) Manning made two more All Pro teams, won two MVP's, won a Super Bowl, a Super Bowl MVP and also made it back to another Super Bowl. Who benefited from playing with whom again?

 

[Len B]

This is an old concept but, isn't it possible that Peyton Manning has at times made his receivers look better? Remember, this is the guy that had BRANDON STOKLEY highly sought after after just a year in Indy...

The same way Deion Branch and David Givens went to shit when they joined other teams, though.

This argument is getting beyond absurd. Peyton and Tom are both top tier, why does their have to be a clear winner? Only reason I was beefing earlier was because it seemed as though Tom Brady was the only QB to benefit from his surroundings while no one else did. It's a team game.

 

[G-men]

Sidenizzle: I wonder if Rayman still think Tony Romo is better than the "other" Manning. Haven't seen him around in a while.

 

[SethMode]

The same way Deion Branch and David Givens went to shit when they joined other teams, though.

That's fine, but the argument of good WR has pretty much always been used against Manning, and it's irritating. I saw it in this thread and wanted to comment on it. Brady has had to endure it much less, if at all.

 

[shag773]

I said "the majority of his career" but I probably should have gone with "half of his career" ... Edge left 7 years ago, and Addai has been injured and ineffective for much of his time there.

9 of his 13 years in the league he ran an offense with a 1,000 yard rusher. Brady, on the other hand, has had 3 in 10 years. You have no point there.

Colts fans may disagree. Either way the Colts were not investing a ton of money or many draft picks on the OL. They didn't really have to, of course, because of Manning's superb pocket control.

The have drafted 4 OL in the first 2 rounds in the last 4 years. Last time I checked, I don't see a ton of money invested in the OL for Brady, Ben, or Rodgers. Unless I'm missing something, which I very well could be. Although I have a hard time believing Jeff Saturday and Tarik Glenn were not well compensated.

Well, when he stopped making the chicken salad it immediately became chicken shit. So what other conclusion can we draw?

My conclusion would be the Colts were not good this year. Not sure what that has to do with the rest of his career?

 

[shag773]

What'd James do once he left Indy and Manning's offense? His production dropped sharply and he was out of the league after 2009. Starting in 2006(the first year Edge was gone) Manning made two more All Pro teams, won two MVP's, won a Super Bowl, a Super Bowl MVP and also made it back to another Super Bowl. Who benefited from playing with whom again?

James had a 1200 yard season for a 5-11 Cardinals team, than went for 1150 for the 8-8 squad the year after. Than he did what most 30 year old RB's do that have seven 300 carry seasons in nine years, they break down.

 

[NAHSTE]

9 of his 13 years in the league he ran an offense with a 1,000 yard rusher. Brady, on the other hand, has had 3 in 10 years. You have no point there.

Oh so individual 1000 yard rushers are all we care about? What about the fact that the Patriots have finished higher than the Colts in team rushing in every season but one since 2003? (Look it up, it's true.)

 

[Archer]

The have drafted 4 OL in the first 2 rounds in the last 4 years. Last time I checked, I don't see a ton of money invested in the OL for Brady, Ben, or Rodgers. Unless I'm missing something, which I very well could be. Although I have a hard time believing Jeff Saturday and Tarik Glenn were not well compensated.

Ugoh retired because he is so bad, Pollak has been benched for a former arena league player multiple times, Manning never had the chance to use this years two draft picks.

My conclusion would be the Cots were not good this year. Not sure what that has to do with the rest of his career?

We were worse last season and he took that team to the playoffs and lost on a special teams fuckup by Jerry Hughes (another wasted first round pick!)

 

[shag773]

Oh so individual 1000 yard rushers are all we care about? What about the fact that the Patriots have finished higher than the Colts in team rushing in every season since 2003? (Look it up, it's true.)

Gee I don't know, how many 1000 yard backs have been associated with a non existent running game?

 

[FirstTimer]

Ugoh retired because he is so bad, Pollak has been benched for a former arena league player multiple times, Manning never had the chance to use this years two draft picks.






We were worse last season and he took that team to the playoffs and lost on a special teams fuckup by Jerry Hughes (another wasted first round pick!)

Bill Polian handing the reigns to Chris Polian killed you guys.