Is Ray Lewis the best MLB of all time?

[RyanLeaf16]

Not that this means anything, but, in the modern era, Ray Lewis has the highest career AV rating of those being discussed.

 

[x0xHumblex0x]

"F" LT; he should get stripped of everything......

if they can do Pete Rose in for gambling money......well;
and
he didnt mess with any 15 year olds or get arrested for crack.


i say Singletary. then Ray......

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Ray Lewis---
Definitely top 5 all time.
You could put him top 3 I wouldnt argue much. People were claiming this after the 00 season then quickly jumping off when the Ravens D switched and struggled. But Lewis adjusted and has been a dominant player since. No player in the top 5 MLB list covered as much ground as Lewis. His SB performance is arguably the best MLB performance Ive ever seen. He had no business being in on some of those plays.
He and Reed have been the only constant and that Ravens D has remained one of the most formidable and smartest units for over a decade.

Lewis did need to be protected though. He was not going to be effective running into FB and guards all game.
Same can be said about the next guy.

Singletary--
IMO Picking Lewis/Singletary are splitting hairs. Both have "goat" defenses under there belt. Both have insane reputations. Both had amazing vision, preparation, work ethic which translated into almost psychic play at times. I think Singletary did benefit from having a better core and better system for longer...but IMO he also did more with it. I give it to him by the proverbial hair.


Urlacher-- Oh boy.
Embodied the modern MLB. A glorified safety who was god awful at the point of attack , needed all kinds of protection up front and rarely made plays in the backfield that wasnt purely paved by his DTs.
His range and speed made his career and good for him. Replacing that type of speed is too difficult which is why the Bears struggled when he was out.
Kleinsasser and Schlesinger would absolutely manhandle Urlacher for 90% of the game. Hed finally get free and break up a pass and announcers would go nuts over his dominant play.

He is what he is. Ray Lewis in these comparison was only "good" at the point of attack. Urlacher was barely mediocre even graded on a curve.


Butkus-- GOAT.
22 interceptions and 27 fumble recoveries playing 14 game season over 9 years.
Thats just retarded.
Granted MLBs now have to cover more ground. BUT... They also benefit from nickel situations , complete lack of Fullbacks , and TE/RBs who get covered by Nickel backs.

MLBs then had to genuinely chess match against the QBs , had to smash into fullbacks 25 times a game , had to cut through centers for the remaining run plays.
They never left the field and were asked to be the catalysts of playmaking on defense.
Yes you can justifiably say defenses "cant do anything" today. I say it all the time. But it also has wear and tear benefits. You could all but murder a defender on a run play without getting half a glance from a ref. Lewis would have been just as dominant but someone would have cut his legs out long before he reached his 15th year. How he does as a slowed down shell is what woulda made the difference..as it did for Butkus who remained a beast.

Butkus was an absolute brute and played both facets of defense as good as any MLB ever has. IMO greatest defender ever.

He does lose manpoints by letting Mean Joe Greene get away with spitting on him. But Im not telling him that.


BTW Nitschke wasnt mentioned but he was a hawk. I dont recall many highlights of him in the backfield like Butkus he was always tipping passes and running guys down.



Bears---
Losing Buddy Ryan was as significant as the injuries to McMahon. Yes Gibbs/Walsh/Parcells were around thus making it difficult for the Bears to sustain. But frankly with Ryan I am more that confident they could have still gotten a victory.
The 86 defense was arguably better than 85 but without Ryan calling plays they lose to Gibbs who took advantage of several poor choices on D.

 

[FirstTimer]

Bears[/B]---
Losing Buddy Ryan was as significant as the injuries to McMahon. Yes Gibbs/Walsh/Parcells were around thus making it difficult for the Bears to sustain. But frankly with Ryan I am more that confident they could have still gotten a victory.
The 86 defense was arguably better than 85 but without Ryan calling plays they lose to Gibbs who took advantage of several poor choices on D.

I guess I see your point here...however The Bears still had top 5-10 defenses up until basically Ditka left(Exception was 89 when they battled some key injuries). They had great talent. I agree the DC's they had after Buddy Ryan weren't as great but even still..if the Bears had a better offense with a healthy McMahon or better QB in general and a more well rounded offensive attack I don't think Gibbs taking advantage of a play or two really matters.


Excelletn post overall though. I agree on the Urlacher point of attack stuff with fullbacks. He's gotten a bit better over the years but is still only average at it. Outside of that though he is a freak and can make plays other MLB's can't so he gets credit there.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Ahhh, those were the classic days of MM....Dr.P vs. Senser.

Parsimony vs Sarcasm ftw.

Not that this means anything, but, in the modern era, Ray Lewis has the highest career AV rating of those being discussed.

AV rating ?
He does have great Old Spice commercials.

I guess I see your point here...however The Bears still had top 5-10 defenses up until basically Ditka left(Exception was 89 when they battled some key injuries). They had great talent. I agree the DC's they had after Buddy Ryan weren't as great but even still..if the Bears had a better offense with a healthy McMahon or better QB in general and a more well rounded offensive attack I don't think Gibbs taking advantage of a play or two really matters.

My philosophy is if your biggest strength is weakened it'll magnify your pre-existing weakness first.
I think the Bears get by the Skins with what they had if there D had Ryan calling the shots in 86. After that its a toss up. The Giants game would of likely been decided by kickers.:club:

After that yes the other holes become too big. You cant expect that level of defense for that long and get no QB help.

 

[jeffx]

Co-sign on everything KOF and FirstTimer said. Even today, Butkus looks like a cat you don't want to fuck with.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Co-sign on everything KOF and FirstTimer said. Even today, Butkus looks like a cat you don't want to fuck with.

His appearance on Coach always cracked me up. When Hayden Fox is terrified to fire him some of the reactions he had to Butkus were hysterical.

 

[FirstTimer]

I see what you're saying but 85 to 86 there wasn't much,if any, fall off. Realitically if McMahon plays in that game against the Skins the Bears win. I think it has less to do with Ryan and WAY more to do with the lack of a QB/offense in general at that point.

 

[Senser81]

His appearance on Coach always cracked me up. When Hayden Fox is terrified to fire him some of the reactions he had to Butkus were hysterical.

I preferred his work on My Two Dads.


This has been a great discussion, and I don't begrudge anyone who thinks Singletary is better than Ray Lewis. As KOF said, you are splitting hairs.

I think there have been very few MLBs who could hold the point of attack, make the big play in coverage, have the speed to track down people, and deliver crushing blows. Even great MLBs were probably deficient in one area. Urlacher was bad at holding the point of attack. Lambert in all honesty was more of a "wrap them up" tackler than a big physical presence. Bill Bergey and Harry Carson were big and physical, but weren't the best in pursuit or coverage.

I think that Lewis, Singletary, Butkus, and Nitschke were some of the only MLBs to not really have a weakness.

 

[RyanLeaf16]

Urlacher-- Oh boy.
Embodied the modern MLB. A glorified safety who was god awful at the point of attack , needed all kinds of protection up front and rarely made plays in the backfield that wasnt purely paved by his DTs.
His range and speed made his career and good for him. Replacing that type of speed is too difficult which is why the Bears struggled when he was out.
Kleinsasser and Schlesinger would absolutely manhandle Urlacher for 90% of the game. Hed finally get free and break up a pass and announcers would go nuts over his dominant play.

He is what he is. Ray Lewis in these comparison was only "good" at the point of attack. Urlacher was barely mediocre even graded on a curve.

Sounds exactly like another overvalued MLB named Barrett Ruud. Never breaks off a block and a majority of his tackles happen 8-10 yards downfield. Not to mention he can't fill the hole when up at the line and rarely takes on blockers when needed which often results in him running himself out of a play.